Pregame: Illinois vs Iowa State, Thursday, March 28th, 9:09pm CT, TBS

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#651      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
danielb927 said:
They key to that Iowa state post trap seems to be the primary defender getting really high to force the ballhandler baseline. This cuts off passes towards the middle of the court and provides a brief window of time for the second defender to come over from the weak side and double the ball. Meanwhile, a secondary weakside defender (whoever's guarding the corner guy) has to rotate over and cover the lane against either a big or a cutter.

I know we'll probably look to space things out and have our weakside corner person elevate to look for a kickout/skip. But Iowa State is probably okay with allowing that and trying to pick it off in the middle.

One thing I'd be interested to see is use of a back screen in this situation. I'll try to describe what I mean.

Say you've got MD in iso trying to start some bootyball action on the right side after a handoff. That'd leave the hander-offer (say, TSJ) up top, 2 more perimeter shooters (CoHawk weakside wing, Quincy/Harmon/Goode in the corner), and someone (Ty/Dain) on the weakside block.

As soon as Marcus starts to post up, Ty/Dain's man is going to come over to double, and Quincy/Harmon/Goode's man will rotate over.

Instead of letting the rotation happen, have Ty/Dain turn around and set a backdoor screen. Marcus's man will be playing high, the double will still be in transit, and if you can execute, you'll have QG or someone emerging into an open lane.

From what I've seen, Iowa State covers the paint at all costs - so TSJ or CoHawk's defender would probably slide down to try to cut this off. In that case, you've got secondary actions. If the pass to QG isn't there at all, Marcus should still have a better angle to kick it out to TSJ or CoHawk instead of having to look for a skip to the corner. If the pass does get to QG, but he's covered too quickly to shoot, he has those same kickout options OR can try to drop it off to Ty/Dain, who has lots of options.

Thoughts from anyone who actually knows ball? Is this dumb, obvious, neither?
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We actually run the reverse action quit a bit where one player off the ball screens the help defender but instead of for a cutter its for a skip pass into the opposite corner for an open 3. Its gotten them some really wide open shots and seems to catch defenses off guard a lot.
 
#652      

RML

R
RML
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
In these situations, I have seen us make the pass to the far corner for an open 3. Marcus and Shannon have done a decent job of finding the open player on doubles this year.
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Just gotta be decisive and either take it, drive it, or pass. No shot fakes then PASS.
 
#653      

illini0440

illini0440
illini0440
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
 
#654      

TheodoreRex

T
TheodoreRex
illini0440 said:
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
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Pretty interesting how they run their defense compared to Brad. He talks all the time about being in position, not gambling, and playing sound principled defense (forcing teams into tough/contest midrange shots, not going for steals, being out of position, etc...). I'm always fascinated by how different philosophies can succeed if they are coached well, players buy in, and players play hard.
 
#655      

FoundersClub

FoundersClub
FoundersClub
illini0440 said:
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
Click to expand...

Prediction? Would be curious to hear how the staff is feeling about the matchup, level of confidence, etc.
 
#656      

Hoopster

Hoopster
Peoria, IL in a van down by the river
Hoopster
illini0440 said:
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
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Big day for TSJ if that's the case, lot of layup/dunks would be my guess.
 
#657      

Mobi

M
Mobi
TheodoreRex said:
A few more thoughts on this game:
1) I don't think this will be a Dain game. I love Dain, and he has grown tremendously this season, but ISU salivates at someone like Dain that holds the ball too long/takes too long to make their move. The only way Dain plays is if he is willing to only score off offensive rebounds and pocket passes/dump offs from drivers. He will not succeed in a traditional post entry situation.

2) Domask has to have a great game in order for us to win. They will keep him from getting to the middle/paint and will attempt to force him into a double on the baseline. Domask will need to be able to quickly go in and out of a post into a face up so that he can see the floor, create space, and make a solid skip pass.

3) The people receiving the skip pass have to be ready to shoot & knock them down at a decent rate. If we can hit a few, that will really influence the game early, as ISU will then scramble more aggressively out to the shooter who can than rip and attack the hoop as soon as ISU closes out hard on the ball.

4) Coleman and Ty will also need to see the floor well and be able to distribute and cut to open spaces in ISU's defense

5) We have to bring it defensively and not let them "feel themselves." ISU is a team that we can really lock down on if we bring it right off the bat.

6) Coleman needs to guard Momcilovic and not let that dude get any 3's. I think this guys is a perfect person for Coleman to guard and shut down as he is an undersized 4/5 that can really shoot well. Coleman is long enough and athletic enough to stick to this guy. I assume TSJ will be on Gilbert and as long as he makes him earn his shots, I think that will be a good matchup as well.
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I think maintaining a good 3 pt FGP will be critical. Otherwise they will just crowd the paint to make us hard to score. I think Goode will be more important than Dain in this game.
 
#660      

danielb927

danielb927
Orange Krush Class of 2013
Rochester, MN
danielb927
blackdog said:
We actually run the reverse action quit a bit where one player off the ball screens the help defender but instead of for a cutter its for a skip pass into the opposite corner for an open 3. Its gotten them some really wide open shots and seems to catch defenses off guard a lot.
Click to expand...

I saw that in one of the scouting report videos on YouTube - kind of a pin-down screen off the ball, right? In my example it would be Ty or Dain on the block sealing that help defender in so that QG or whoever's in the corner would be open? Only reason I was thinking of alternatives is because that'd require Marcus to throw a skip pass over both the doubling and help-side defenders, which is both slow and risky.
 
#661      

ever

E
ever
illini0440 said:
They crash the offensive boards HARD.
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It's interesting that they are only 108th in the nation in offensive rebounding percentage. And that they still have good defensive ratings if they're crashing and coming up empty a decent amount of the time.
 
#662      

IllinoisssssssVarsity

I
IllinoisssssssVarsity
illini0440 said:
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
Click to expand...
Any inclination if we'll run some CH/TSJ P/R with Coleman handling and TSJ slipping? Coleman in theory could pass over the trap and TSJ is attacking a rotation
 
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#663      

IlliniwekKDR

IlliniwekKDR
Colorado Springs, CO
IlliniwekKDR
illini0440 said:
I'm confident. Make the right reads, passes and hit open 3's and they will stop sending the double. Were so dialed in offensively that I don't worry about the reads and passes like I would in years past.
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I noticed how the post asked if the staff was confident and your response was that you are confident...Mr Underwood...
 
#664      

RockfordIllini

R
RockfordIllini
I hope we do mix in a few ball screens and get in that short roll, 4 on 3 situation. Think Coleman or Ty can be really effective making that read. I think Coleman is a better decision maker and probably a more effective driver but he’s also one of our best 3 pt shooters. So could see swapping Ty into get more shooting on the perimeter.
 
#665      

PizzaHutParkingLot

PizzaHutParkingLot
McPherson, KS
PizzaHutParkingLot
illini0440 said:
Illinois vs. Iowa State

Matchups: The 3 of Gilbert, Lipsey and Momcilovic will be guarded by TJ, Ty, or Domask. If Dain is in with Coleman then you could see Coleman on Momcilovic. Quincy on Tre King(Thrives on getting loose balls).

They play their best defense(in terms of steals) in ball screen actions(luckily we don't run a ton).
Avoid over dribbling into the help.
We have to avoid throwing it into the corner on BLOBS and if they full court us.
They will detach from shooters randomly...there is no rhyme or reason to how they defend really in terms of normal principles. We have to reverse it and you will see skip passes from us.
When Marcus gets in on the wing or elbow they will send the low man on a double(full reversals will be key here)
Get out and run!!! In transition and after makes! Again don't attack the help though, find the weak spot.
We can't detach from Ward he loves OREB and putbacks.
They crash the offensive boards HARD. Rebound like we can and we will be alright and win the 50-50 balls!

Nothing earth shattering but this is some of what Brad will tell the guys.
Click to expand...
@illini0440 (aka Tyler Underwood) knows ball!
 
#666      

Get yourself a new map

G
Get yourself a new map
Oddly enough (because they seemed very bothered by Duquesne's style of D), I think the blueprint for attacking ISU comes from BYU. Check out highlights from their March 6 game at Hilton. BYU was up 9 with 9:45 to go and then only scored 7 points the rest of the way, including 0 the final 4:25ish. They got a little frustrated and took some bad attempts (some over-penetrating, dribbling into corners, bad passes off one foot) plus missed some open ones to close the game. ISU in that stretch scored on what seemed like exclusively tough shots and soft fouls - not a recipe for a neutral court win.

BYU with bigger guards were able to pass the ball back to the top when double came from the wing. Ball didn't stick there, but instead was immediately shot or swung. Led to multiple open threes.

0440 is right in that ISU guards detach from shooters - Lipsey and Gilbert honestly made me question in some clips whether they were in a zone or man:man (it's man; if their guy is opposite the court from the ball, they will be SO far over in help to discourage paint touches and attack the dribbler). Gotta make them pay for those gambles. Kick the ball out firmly, swing it, attack closeouts; ISU will have guys at the rim, but we have two 99th percentile finishers (purely a guess). Don't get frustrated with a few non-calls, keep attacking.

BYU had some success playing out of the high post with a big man. ISU doesn't double until you dribble unless it's near the low block or trapping off a BLOB. On the high post (or top of key) catch, ISU got up on the ball, overplayed everywhere and Khalifa carved them up. It's an option, especially if Coleman is locked in offensively.

Weary of ball screens, but Coleman and Ty (maybe Dain?) could also be key in the short roll situation with how ISU hedges and/or blitzes ball screens. Very helpful to have big guards in this situation. We got any of those? (Again, Khalifa killed ISU from this spot.)

ISU will take and make some tough shots. Make sure the easy ones are from good offense rather than giveaways. Can't wait.
 
#667      

ptgrd23

ptgrd23
ptgrd23
RockfordIllini said:
I hope we do mix in a few ball screens and get in that short roll, 4 on 3 situation. Think Coleman or Ty can be really effective making that read. I think Coleman is a better decision maker and probably a more effective driver but he’s also one of our best 3 pt shooters. So could see swapping Ty into get more shooting on the perimeter.
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Would be great game for Harmon to get his shot back! He was awesome in January. Scoring and rebounding!
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#673      

altgeld88

altgeld88
Arlington, Virginia
altgeld88
AyoDos11 said:
There's so many things wrong with this 🙄🙄
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There's a old adage that the elderly like myself say to ourselves a lot since the Web gave everyone a public voice: "talk is cheap." I'll add the observation that it's a real shame we can't tax the lower-quality variety to get less of it.

The ball will tip Thursday night and they'll play for 40. One team will win and I'll be surprised if it's not a one- or two-possession game at the final horn. That's where we are this far into the tourney when #2 plays #3.

I can't be arsed to care about anything SuperFanatic Cylcone Man Klubber (lol) says, particularly his opinions on players he just starting thinking about for the first time on Sunday morning. Nor should any of us here. I've had a ball reading this thread the past couple days, largely because Loyalty members have lots of interesting things to say. However, it has also become apparent to me what I'd long assumed: certain (not all, mind you) ISU fans have a serious inferiority complex. We'll be the focus of their psychological projections for another 54 hours and then they'll be distracted by another shiny object or, as we all hope, slink away, lick their wounds and wait for Cy-Hawk time next September, if that game will even exist in the new B1G world.

:illinois:
 
#674      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
nyc_illini said:
Yeah saw that too. Just rolled my eyes.

The level of discussion on this board, in terms of depth, technical details and just plain factualness, is just a tier above theirs.
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Again, VERY much went against my perception of ISU fans as a relatively inoffensive, knowledgeable bunch ... pretty much getting the less boorish Iowans in their fan base and leaving the rest to the Hawkeyes. :ROFLMAO: Alas, the takes on that board are as obnoxious as they are ill-informed!
 
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