Is it just me out are there more blowouts in big ten games than in recent history? Seems like a lot more than usual. I really wanted/want Groce to win. So sad that this team is not playing as a team. Where is Abrams? I don't believe that Hill is a good leader.
Indiana 103, Illinois 69 POSTGAME
I really don't like the idea of firing Groce. But my biggest concern is that the team's ineptitude on the court and Groce's seat being scorching hot won't be conducive to landing the players we desperately need from the 2017 class. Unfortunately, the 2017 class is the ONLY glimmer of hope left for Groce's tenure and I just don't expect much to come from it given the circumstances. So what do we do? I guess you have to fire Groce. But the fear of the unknown and are current cluster mess of an AD situation makes me want to go hide in a cave somewhere as an Illini fan. It absolutely disgusts me to no end that freaking Northwestern is on the up and up and we are stuck in the bottom of the Big Ten setting our hopes and prayers on the class of 2017 and a 6th year Tracy Abrams.
Weber went 2-11 over his last 13 B1G games. We have 12 games left in the season with 2 losses since the Purdue win. Should this team show a similar record to Weber's final games of his last season, Groce deserves to be gone at the end of the year. Likewise, he deserves to be given the chance to show some improvement with this team.
I have been a die-hard supporter of Groce but he need to make a difference with the team we are currently seeing. If he can't do that, I don't see much reason to keep him for another year. I don't think this team is as lost as in Weber's last year. It is time to prove it on the court against the teams in the upcoming schedule that can be beat. There is a lot of opportunity yet ahead.
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ChiefScottieLakes
- Joliet
I haven't posted here in a long, long time. I have been in a deep Illini depression with all the terrible things going on, and you don't know how much it pains me to write this message. Some may disagree, but John Groce needs to go. I wish him the best, but he is not the answer. This dysfunctional athletic program needs to start afresh, and I have the answer. It may cost a little bit of money that should be within the university's means, but we need to get this guy before he is out of our league (like Gregg Marshall). We need a guy that has proven that he can compete at a high level, and that is what this guy is.
Larry Krystkowiak
Anyone who doesn't want him is out of their mind. This guy knows what he is doing, and he played for the Bulls.
Larry Krystkowiak
Go out and get him after this season because his arrow is pointing up.
Larry Krystkowiak
Larry Krystkowiak
Anyone who doesn't want him is out of their mind. This guy knows what he is doing, and he played for the Bulls.
Larry Krystkowiak
Go out and get him after this season because his arrow is pointing up.
Larry Krystkowiak
Playing against Illini Basketball... where opposing managers dream's come true.
I'm more afraid of more Groce than the "unknown." What could possibly be worse than where we are now?
Yeah. He's out of ideas...probably in the end he's a nice guy but mediocre coach with some very bad luck.
I can't disagree with you unfortunately. This is honestly the first time in my life as an Illini fan where when people give me a hard time about the state of our program I don't have anything to come back with. In the past I always had some kind of ammo, some kind of hope. Right now I'm drawing a blank. And honestly, I just can't take the injury excuse anymore. The state of how our team is playing is so atrocious that no injury excuse can suffice...
UIUC1867
- Christian County, IL
Hiring Reggie Theus. :tape:
There's nobody with that kind of personality on this team who isn't named Tracy Abrams...however. We have a totally different animal in Malcolm Hill.
Everyond will find any excuse to be down right now, but the best things I saw on my tv during that game was the stats on Malcolm. Our boy is 1 of 3 players in the country to lead his team in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks?! He's the better half of the third best scoring duo in the country...he leads the big ten with 9 20+ point games, is 2nd in the conference in ppg, and will soon have the most total points scored of anyone in the conference.
This team desperately calls for a strong vocal leader and that's not him. I won't be mad at him for that. He's doing some incredible things for his team and I tip my hat to him. He's really putting together a great year.
It does irk me a bit to hear Groce putting blame on the players to step up as leaders for the team. I don't know the team on a personal level but I have met Hill and seen him in numerous interviews and that dude has never exuded leadership characteristics. And honestly, I've never sensed leadership characteristics with Nunn either. The reality is, for 90% of teams out there, their point guard is their leader and guess what, Groce hasn't landed one of those and that's 100% on HIM.
Agree completely on Malcolm, but unfortunately he is not a leader. A great player, but quiet in some many ways. With so many freshmen and new faces - we don't have the consistency that is needed to build a program. Bill Belichick (who I can't stand but I admire) had some interesting quotes recently about building a program and how you need those guys who lead and set examples. Guys who demand excellence and show the new faces that in order to win you need to go all out. He spoke about how this has allowed him to build success over such a long period. It is why he brings veterans back over and over again.
Didn't Nunn have a team violation last game? That is the leadership we have (or not). I love the guy, but cmon. And hard for Abrams to lead when no one has been in the bunker with him during the fight. The freshmen may have some of that, but there are almost too many of them.
Watching this game, I noticed that IU rarely switched on defense, guys guarded straight up and fought through screens. Granted our poor offense probably helped, but IU isn't the first team I've watched to employ this simple, straight-forward strategy.
On the other end of the spectrum is our defense. Groce talks a lot about "team defense". Which I guess means tons of help, switches, rotations and generally putting guys in bad positions. IU just moved the ball until they found the open guy for either a dunk or 3.
We constantly hear about the freshmen not being able to play defense yet. Is this because the "system" is so darn complicated? Instead of using all this help, switching, rotations, etc., why don't they just focus on trying to make them better individual defenders? A lot of guys have poor footwork, little fight, and are too often out of position.
Am I the only one who thinks JG's approach to this is backwards?
On the other end of the spectrum is our defense. Groce talks a lot about "team defense". Which I guess means tons of help, switches, rotations and generally putting guys in bad positions. IU just moved the ball until they found the open guy for either a dunk or 3.
We constantly hear about the freshmen not being able to play defense yet. Is this because the "system" is so darn complicated? Instead of using all this help, switching, rotations, etc., why don't they just focus on trying to make them better individual defenders? A lot of guys have poor footwork, little fight, and are too often out of position.
Am I the only one who thinks JG's approach to this is backwards?
No, you are spot on.
Not sure why he would want to leave Utah and come here? He just extended his contract for 2.4 million per season, and he is in a major conference coming off a sweet 16 appearance.
I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement on defense. Watch Nunn for a an entire game and you will see exactly what this poster pointed out. Here is a guy in Nunn that is arguably our best athlete and usually one of the better athletes on the floor and yet he CONSTANTLY gets best off the dribble. It looks like he sometimes just plays lackadaisical because he expects help defense to be there. How about we coach defense how to not get beat off the dribble in the first place and then you don't have to worry about 2 freshman and a non-Big Ten level point guard to adjust and switch and help when they have no clue what they are doing in the first place. I remember the day I heard Groce mention how much he pays attention to statistics and how he told the guys not to guard a specific player because statistically he is a poor shooter. During that game, the player caught fire and Abrams mentioned how the freshman got mad and yelled to stick him on defense. Tracy stepped in and said, "stick to the game plan fresh." And that my friends is a perfect example of the problems we currently face
Wittsdream
- Chicago
Haven't posted in some time, having somewhat lost interest in following Illini basketball (after being a fanatic since the early 1980's). This is due in large part to the debacle of Weber's waning years, punctuated by my complete and utter loss of confidence in Groce's ability to shepherd a program, with last season's season-ending ruination being the final straw.
The only reason I happened to catch part of tonight's game is because it was on ESPN, and the game was playing on the television in the background (with closed captions on) at the hospital where my elderly mom is at.
Anyway, I believe it was late in the 1st half, after Indiana began pulling away, that Dan Dakich summed it up the best, and I'm paraphrasing: "There is no structure to Illinois' offense." And Dakich has been a fan of Groce since his hire, and calls Illini games fairly.
It's a nationally televised game, and if I'm a potential recruit listening to that commentary I'm going to have serious doubts about attending the UofI. Is it any wonder that Weber and Groce have been snake bitten on the recruiting trail?
Needless to say, I have far more important things to do in this all too brief life than to submit myself to the torture of watching my favorite college program go down the shitter.
So many great teams from 1980 to 2005, it's a pretty disconsolate feeling to witness how far Illinois basketball has devolved since 2005.
Good thing I live in Chicago, and have enjoyed the great Bulls run of the 90's and the Blackhawks' recent string of Stanley Cups. Heck, living a few blocks away from Wrigley Field, with the way the Cubs' front office has been pulling no punches, I may be in for the ultimate beer garden party with a World Series in the next few years.
It may or may not happen, but at least there is a reason to be hopeful.
Just like I tell my friends when they ask for advice on movie options: get a return on your two hour investment.
Sadly, that's not Illinois basketball, and it's been that way for damn near a decade.
Peace!
The only reason I happened to catch part of tonight's game is because it was on ESPN, and the game was playing on the television in the background (with closed captions on) at the hospital where my elderly mom is at.
Anyway, I believe it was late in the 1st half, after Indiana began pulling away, that Dan Dakich summed it up the best, and I'm paraphrasing: "There is no structure to Illinois' offense." And Dakich has been a fan of Groce since his hire, and calls Illini games fairly.
It's a nationally televised game, and if I'm a potential recruit listening to that commentary I'm going to have serious doubts about attending the UofI. Is it any wonder that Weber and Groce have been snake bitten on the recruiting trail?
Needless to say, I have far more important things to do in this all too brief life than to submit myself to the torture of watching my favorite college program go down the shitter.
So many great teams from 1980 to 2005, it's a pretty disconsolate feeling to witness how far Illinois basketball has devolved since 2005.
Good thing I live in Chicago, and have enjoyed the great Bulls run of the 90's and the Blackhawks' recent string of Stanley Cups. Heck, living a few blocks away from Wrigley Field, with the way the Cubs' front office has been pulling no punches, I may be in for the ultimate beer garden party with a World Series in the next few years.
It may or may not happen, but at least there is a reason to be hopeful.
Just like I tell my friends when they ask for advice on movie options: get a return on your two hour investment.
Sadly, that's not Illinois basketball, and it's been that way for damn near a decade.
Peace!
Ok I bit and looked up Utes record under LK..
He's made one NCAA tourney in 4 years...last year.
6 -25 his first year with Utes in 2012. Overall they are trending up after his abysmal first year.
Maybe they didn't feel the need to switch? If taught well, a switching defense is tough to go against.
I really want Groce to succeed but the guy cannot coach. Ever since Brandon Miller left, we look unprepared out there. I know we have no point guard that can be a threat but this was abysmal. I just don't get it. Why not run Hill as the point, have JCL try to learn some, or something. We don't play d, so why not have scores galore out here. Do something but all we do is ISO ball. I know our program is down and Chicago is a bear to recruit, but there has to be a solid coach willing to give us a hot and some sort od f identity. There is Marshall from Wichita State, the guy from Utah, and there has to be many options. Maybe unconventional but how about Bardo.. I bet he can coach as he sounds intelligent on the air, has ties all over, could probably recruit Chicago, and knows the game. Maybe he could get Deon as an assistant, Dee as another, and get an X's and O's guy. He could restore our Illini identity too.
KrushCow31
Former Krush Cow
- Chicago, IL
Funny thing is we didn't even shoot all that bad at 43%. Of course Indiana shot lights out but still. Our perimeter defense is laughable. Almost every game. I would love to see what the average 3pt% of our opponents is this season. I would bet it's over 40%.
If a guy is say a 30% 3-point shooter a good rule of thumb is that he'll make double, so about 60% if he's wide open, reason enough to not employ this strategy. Beyond it, it is significantly easier to make decisions when there isn't much defensive pressure on you.