Iowa State 84, Illinois 68 POSTGAME

#51      

bombayIllini

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bombayIllini
Sirillini said:
It never has and it never will.

No high D1 team has ever had sustained, high-level success using this D scheme. You give up too many high % shots. Period.

Good Lord...

It's embarrassing. We just got BLOWN OUT by a mid-tier Big 12 team that was MISSING FOUR OF ITS TOP PLAYERS!

That tells you everything you need to know about where this program is at right now. That win gave ISU an all time record of 3-11 against Illinois. ISU has been a better program than Illinois for the last 10 years. A much better program. I S FREAKING U!!

It's sad and a little astonishing that we could have messed up a program with so many built in advantages this terribly. Sad.
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On the flip side we took the #3 team down to the wire.

In both cases the D gave up what it is designed to give up. I assume, since I am no expert on such matters.

However, it was the O that was the clear difference. Had we performed on O at the level we did yesterday, it just could have been a different story or t least a close one like vs. the Zags.
 
#52      

illinitiger

I
illinitiger
Verified Insider said:
?

They're down 4 of their top 6 or 7 players, and Shayok sat for long stretches in the game. This wasn't a case of us just not having enough juice to steal a game or spring an upset. This was a thorough beating delivered by a depleted team that played harder and tougher.
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Michael Jacobson is a really good player. ISU may be a top 20 team if they have their missed players. I dont buy that they are in lower half on B12.
 
#53      

bombayIllini

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bombayIllini
IdahoIllini said:
Coaching. Prohm did some. Underwood didn’t.
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I am not too sure about that. Although the performance of the players is on the coach.

I think the ISU players followed their instructions and our kids did not.

??????????

IdahoIllini said:
We keep preaching patience. At some point, that wears thin. It’s way thin in football. Hoops could still turn but showings like today don’t give fans much hope. Losing three in three days is going to hurt. Apparently, we are the new Chaminade. Lol.
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I think the past two games should be a wake up call for the kids. Either they play the way they played against the Zags or ............................

Coach BU, IMVVVHO, has never changed. Again, I am absolutely no expert on the matter, just a casual observer.
 
#54      

IdahoIllini

I
IdahoIllini
bombayIllini said:
On the flip side we took the #3 team down to the wire.

In both cases the D gave up what it is designed to give up. I assume, since I am no expert on such matters.

However, it was the O that was the clear difference. Had we performed on O at the level we did yesterday, it just could have been a different story or t least a close one like vs. the Zags.
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Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think the Zags are clearly overrated. And offensively we didn’t do much if anything different last night, Frazier just hit every shot he took and some were really tough. That didn’t happen tonight and we see the result.

I’m not punting on the season yet, but we have to get way better fast.
 
#55      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
illinitiger said:
Michael Jacobson is a really good player. ISU may be a top 20 team if they have their missed players. I dont buy that they are in lower half on B12.
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The team we played tonight would finish in bottom half, their complete team no way Top 25 probably end of year.
 
#57      

McBrush

M
McBrush
IdahoIllini said:
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think the Zags are clearly overrated. And offensively we didn’t do much if anything different last night, Frazier just hit every shot he took and some were really tough. That didn’t happen tonight and we see the result.

I’m not punting on the season yet, but we have to get way better fast.
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The difference was Giorgi offensively. The team needs him on the floor.
 
#58      

Halloweenie

H
Halloweenie
I think this comes down to talent and our lack of it except at guard. THT is a very good player but we have no one that can guard him. Better teams will have someone that makes him work for his baskets and not let him be the second coming of lebron. I going to Missouri game, hope we can at least beat them. This is a 10 to 14 level Big Ten team. Hope Coach proves me wrong.
 
#59      

Fr8trn16

F
Fr8trn16
winthiscentury said:
Mrs Kane or Mrs Jones, is that you?

I'm not saying this was a well coached game, but this post is silly.

Blaming the coaches and the refs are the comfortable thing to do because it's an easy thing to do.

Fact is, we got out muscled, out worked....out everythinged by an Iowa State team who was bigger, stronger, quicker and more talented offensively than our guys.

There is absolutely nothing that Kane or Jones would have done to help prevent that second half beatdown. BU sees his guys in practice, he knows where they're at, if they're lost or confused and he's not going to put them in there to fail or embarrass themselves.

Try and breathe
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Well how embarrassing was that game? I disagree that Tevian couldn't have helped or Samba... Tyler played before him for goodness sakes... Samson too.... and the other kid number 3. Its Definitely coaching.... where was the adjustments? Going smaller was the answer? Playing guys in foul trouble? Can't be aggressive... he obviously was just throwing bodies in the game... why not ones with talent and athleticism, and size for goodness sakes!
 
#61      

breadman

B
Herndon, VA
breadman
Seems like ISU resorted to Gtown's philosophy of offense in the second half tonight: "Just throw anything at the basket and it will go in!"
Not seeing hard nose defense as in past Illini teams.

And I do like Adonis!!
Here's hoping from here on out that BU pairs Giorgi with both Samba and then Adonis on the court to see how those combos work. At least before league play.
 
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#62      

Deleted member 645583

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Guest
Deleted member 645583
IdahoIllini said:
It was a clinic coming out of halftime.
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Where was the Illinois clinic with a half-time lead? Clinically dead. Iowa State came out on fire; Illini like ice. Back to the drawing board.

GO ILLINI! nevertheless.
 
#63      

FiveStar

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FiveStar
jrichisamazing said:
They are only ranked 30th in Kenpom and are missing a combined 45 ppg due to injury/suspension. They weren’t more skilled or athletic than us. They had an offensive and defensive game plan that worked.

Ayo’s strength is getting in the lane. He didn’t do that. Feliz’s strength is getting in the lane. He didn’t do that. Frazier also struggled to get in the lane. To me that’s on the coach.

I would love to hear from @FiveStar about this half court offense right now. To me it seems extremely vanilla. Running the same very basic sets over and over.
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I addressed this in a different game thread. Very vanilla thus far but a little less so in the last couple games. Still not much. I’m guessing that’s by design to not overwhelm the freshman. Get really good at a couple things and then build.
 
#64      

breadman

B
Herndon, VA
breadman
oleoleahy51 said:
Where was the Illinois clinic with a half-time lead? Clinically dead. Iowa State came out on fire; Illini like ice. Back to the drawing board.

GO ILLINI! nevertheless.
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As I just said a minute ago. ISU watched our game against Gtown at half time and took it to heart. Just throw anything at the basket and it will go in.
And yes, of course, GO freaking ILLINI!!!!
 
#66      

Halloweenie

H
Halloweenie
STLIlliniMike said:
Hate to say it but this looked like karma from the THT fiasco.
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Yeah...our recruiting has been substandard as it is and then to lose a difference maker like that hurts. When we can't beat Iowa State for homestate recruits we are behind the eight ball. Nothing against them.. they have been the better program over the last 10 years.
 
#67      

IdahoIllini

I
IdahoIllini
oleoleahy51 said:
Where was the Illinois clinic with a half-time lead? Clinically dead. Iowa State came out on fire; Illini like ice. Back to the drawing board.

GO ILLINI! nevertheless.
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Listening to the isu post game that Dan posted, their center said, and I quote, “we made an adjustment to take away one movement they were running”. I don’t think he meant it like it was the only movement, but I chuckled because it sure seemed like it probably was.
 
#68      

Turnlaw

T
Turnlaw
My biggest concern here was BU playing his son before other players who should have seen time, even over other walk-ons. He was entirely outmatched and guard is our deepest position. That has to have a huge negative effect on team unity and morale. Play your younger recruits if you want to make a point (Jones?) I am really questioning BU's judgment at this point.
 
#69      

Deleted member 746094

D
Guest
Deleted member 746094
IdahoIllini said:
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think the Zags are clearly overrated. And offensively we didn’t do much if anything different last night, Frazier just hit every shot he took and some were really tough. That didn’t happen tonight and we see the result.

I’m not punting on the season yet, but we have to get way better fast.
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Do you watch ESPN, CBS, Fox Sports, etc???

Many of their analysts have Gonzaga as a Final Four team and one of the few teams in the country that can knock off Duke.

Maybe we just played to our potential last night against a really good team and played poorly today against what I thought was a pretty good team that is very well a tourney team.
 
#70      

FinalFour88

FinalFour88
Charlotte, NC
FinalFour88
UofI08 said:
Watched the first half but could only listen to the second half in the car. Was it as bad as it sounded? I swear the entire 2nd half sounded like: Illinois missed shot, ISU drives and gets fouled, with the occasional ISU made 3. Defense has to do more than just foul in the lane.
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Yes, it was terrible to watch. But we should all be used to it by now. Games have been playing out like this for years.
 
#71      

FinalFour88

FinalFour88
Charlotte, NC
FinalFour88
It's funny, so many opposing coaches talk about how Illinois' defense is very high pressure and tough to prepare for. But none of them say Illinois' defense is particularly good. Did you happen to see Mark Few's press conference from last night? He said it himself. Someone asked him about all the turnovers forced by Illinois, and he said the Illini defense is "high risk," and then mentioned that his team shot 54% from the floor for the game.
 
#72      

Deleted member 626650

D
Guest
Deleted member 626650
deucemu said:
Do you watch ESPN, CBS, Fox Sports, etc???

Many of their analysts have Gonzaga as a Final Four team and one of the few teams in the country that can knock off Duke.

Maybe we just played to our potential last night against a really good team and played poorly today against what I thought was a pretty good team that is very well a tourney team.
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Or, maybe Gonzaga turned the ball over 20+ times (partly because of the pressure we play with), and TF was playing outside his mind.

That more plausible than to think that last night was the teams potential.
 
#73      

bombayIllini

B
bombayIllini
IdahoIllini said:
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I think the Zags are clearly overrated. And offensively we didn’t do much if anything different last night, Frazier just hit every shot he took and some were really tough. That didn’t happen tonight and we see the result.

I’m not punting on the season yet, but we have to get way better fast.
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My post was based more on the comments of BU after the game + comments by Deon Thomas during and after the two games + the comments of other people who (claim to?) know BU.

If one listens to BU he clearly states that the kids took 14 minutes to run a play he drew up. True, in those 14 minutes BU should have called a TO and leaned into them and made sure they ran the play every time down the floor for the next 5 trips. However, it is on teh kids to run these plays too.

I think it is time for the kids to become little humble and realize that they have a huge load on themselves and that dancing contests and ruckus crowd support is not going to cut it. We have stars, but these stars are not very mature yet. And the upper class has mature kids, but no stars. IMVVHO.
 
#74      

breadman

B
Herndon, VA
breadman
FinalFour88 said:
It's funny, so many opposing coaches talk about how Illinois' defense is very high pressure and tough to prepare for. But none of them say Illinois' defense is particularly good. Did you happen to see Mark Few's press conference from last night? He said it himself. Someone asked him about all the turnovers forced by Illinois, and he said the Illini defense is "high risk," and then mentioned that his team shot 54% from the floor for the game.
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I hear you. As I mentioned earlier, don't see the hard nose defense. Rather than move out of the way at the last minute and risking a block or whatever we give the refs room to call, put some physical-ness into that defensive stand and see if they remember that the next time down the floor.
 
#75      

Illinois13

I
Illinois13
The problem is Henson built the program to a different level and so-on. Kruger rebuilt the foundation with Peoria. We hit a back-to-back home run coaches by hiring Self and experienced a sustainable growth model. Weber inherited Self's roster and won big early in his tenure but couldn't match Self's charisma and recruiting talent. Groce took over and got us to the tournament immediately but couldn't execute. And now Underwood is rebuilding the foundation.

We all have different levels of knowledge in each situation and in a world of immediate gratification, we struggle because we know what success looks like.