Iowa State 84, Illinois 68 POSTGAME

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#76      
Halloweenie
deucemu said:
Do you watch ESPN, CBS, Fox Sports, etc???

Many of their analysts have Gonzaga as a Final Four team and one of the few teams in the country that can knock off Duke.

Maybe we just played to our potential last night against a really good team and played poorly today against what I thought was a pretty good team that is very well a tourney team.
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If they (isu)are a tourney team playing without 4 of their top 6 players, then they are elite eight with them
 
#77      
Notyours
deucemu said:
Do you watch ESPN, CBS, Fox Sports, etc???

Many of their analysts have Gonzaga as a Final Four team and one of the few teams in the country that can knock off Duke.

Maybe we just played to our potential last night against a really good team and played poorly today against what I thought was a pretty good team that is very well a tourney team.
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Duke will beat Gonzaga by at least 20.
 
#78      
Damir Krupalija’s Hair
Illinois13 said:
The problem is Henson built the program to a different level and so-on. Kruger rebuilt the foundation with Peoria. We hit a back-to-back home run coaches by hiring Self and experienced a sustainable growth model. Weber inherited Self's roster and won big early in his tenure but couldn't match Self's charisma and recruiting talent. Groce took over and got us to the tournament immediately but couldn't execute. And now Underwood is rebuilding the foundation.

We all have different levels of knowledge in each situation and in a world of immediate gratification, we struggle because we know what success looks like.
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I was on campus for Kruger’s last year, the Self era, and Weber’s first year. I know all too well. I also concur. I’m just wondering if we’ve drifted too far into the abyss. We’ve never been this bad and for this long, at any point in my life.
 
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#79      
IllFanInMi
We are young, inexperienced, and roster balance is poor right now. I would be much more willing to take whatever great moments and wins we can get this year and patiently wait for the rebuild and making the tournament in 1-2 years. The problem is the track record of players leaving, recruiting imbalance and BU not being able to implement much means you can’t make any significant progress. If Samba and Tev get the pine treatment all year will they stick around?

I’m afraid there are way more questions than answers with BU being able to implement his master plan.
 
#80      
Illinois13
Damir Krupalija’s Hair said:
I was on campus for Kruger’s last year, the Self era, and Weber’s first year. I know all too well. I also concur.
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Haha - the response was me keyboard warrior-ing my immediate flashback... but I share the same sentiment. Just figured I'd spell it out without all the painful details of each poor admin decision, recruiting miss, and tough break.

Seriously though, it's been tough to endure.
 
#83      
jrichisamazing
Damir Krupalija’s Hair said:
Definitely more skilled and athletic than us with their ability to get in the lane and finish at the basket.

Ayo can’t really break you down off the dribble but he can turn the corner on you, he just doesn’t have elite leaping ability to finish at the basket.

Feliz can’t consistently break you down either but has the ability to get to the basket, but at 5’10” or whatever isn’t that much of a threat at the rim all though he does use his body very well.

Trent can get there and is probably the best slasher we have. But I still wouldn’t say that’s his strength.

Iowa St had multiple players with handles, blow by, and bounce to score at the basket. They could also get in the lane and create for each other. We just don’t have that caliber of fluid athlete. Haven’t had that in a long, long time.

And it’s even more concerning that they were missing some of their best players.
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Ayo was ranked so high because of his ability to beat guys off the bounce and finish at the rim. Same with Feliz. They both have that ability and we haven't seen it often. To me, that's on the coach. This halfcourt offense looks slow, congested, and very robotic. They're not playing with much freedom right now. The talent is there.

As far as ISU getting in the lane...literally every team does that against us. Our pressure defense basically has 3 outcomes. Turnover, blow by, or foul. We made Iowa St look much better than they actually are. Just like the Georgetown game. If you need proof, look at what Georgetown did in their very next game after beating us.
 
#84      
McBrush
The recruits we missed and transfers are all in the past. The team we have now has some positives and a lot of negatives at least at the moment. The problem is this schedule may build toughness and get them ready for better competition, but it will probably be ugly. I wish we had some cupcakes to build confidence and learn the schemes. I am willing to give the team a chance to grow and see how they respond later this season. If we do not show improvement in conference play, then all hope may be lost. Count me in the boat of doubting Underwoods offense and defense, but it is easy to doubt when it sounds like we have barely seen it run properly (though is it a problem that it seems that hard to implement these schemes, idk) Enough of my ranting onto the next game!
 
#85      
Deleted member 236589
McBrush said:
The recruits we missed and transfers are all in the past. The team we have now has some positives and a lot of negatives at least at the moment. The problem is this schedule may build toughness and get them ready for better competition, but it will probably be ugly. I wish we had some cupcakes to build confidence and learn the schemes. I am willing to give the team a chance to grow and see how they respond later this season. If we do not show improvement in conference play, then all hope may be lost. Count me in the boat of doubting Underwoods offense and defense, but it is easy to doubt when it sounds like we have barely seen it run properly (though is it a problem that it seems that hard to implement these schemes, idk) Enough of my ranting onto the next game!
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I'm with you. What I found most interesting was his post game comment saying that it took them 14 minutes to run the first play he called.

Not sure whether to be concerned, as they aren't grasping his system or whether to be feeling positive as they're playing very good competition, while learning on the fly. Playing stiff competition now should pay dividends by mid season.
 
#86      
Obelix
We do not have talent and depth in the frontcourt to compete with better teams. Our guards are good but all this talk about taking apart other teams with penetration and just kicking out for easy outside shots is nonsense. We have a very good backcourt but not the superiority that some fans had envisioned. ISU and Prohm had done their homework, they really came out playing Frazier very tight, taking away our primary threat. Positionless basketball without the skills and players in the frontcourt is just hallucination.

We will get better as the season progresses, no doubt, but we simply do not have the horses to compete beyond a certain point. Without a major turnaround in recruiting soon, we will unfortunately waste a golden opportunity to build on a really good backcourt. JMO.
 
#87      
IllFanInMi
Watching Zona outplaying Zags. These teams just simply have more length and lengthy athleticism. I’ll take our guards all day every day, but until we can add more 3’s and 4’s 6’6” - 6’8” that can defend and fly to the boards we will not get to the next tier.

I for one am willing to let Tev learn on the floor, unless he and Samba are completely out of their element, give them minutes. If they’re that incapable, the staffs evaluation of their fit in the “system” has to be questioned.
 
#88      
Serious Late
The Tyler Underwood playing time has a rather uncomfortable Ryan Cubit feel to it...

That said, Underwood must sincerely believe Tyler is providing something necessary as Brad Underwood is in a completely different situation than Bill Cubit. I still remain baffled why Tyler was in the game.
 
#89      
McBrush
Serious Late said:
The Tyler Underwood playing time has a rather uncomfortable Ryan Cubit feel to it...

That said, Underwood must sincerely believe Tyler is providing something necessary as Brad Underwood is in a completely different situation than Bill Cubit. I still remain baffled why Tyler was in the game.
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I imagine because he might be the only one who knows the offense and will try to run it. The problem is he is not talented enough to do anything. Coach was probably pissed and wanted to light a fire under his players to do something other than jack up a 3 or drive and try to shoot it over 3 people.
 
#90      
mattcoldagelli
Turnlaw said:
My biggest concern here was BU playing his son before other players who should have seen time, even over other walk-ons. He was entirely outmatched and guard is our deepest position. That has to have a huge negative effect on team unity and morale. Play your younger recruits if you want to make a point (Jones?) I am really questioning BU's judgment at this point.
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Agree that Tyler Underwood seeing the floor in front of Tevian Jones is a problem.
 
#92      
the national
Sirillini said:
It never has and it never will.

No high D1 team has ever had sustained, high-level success using this D scheme. You give up too many high % shots. Period.

Good Lord...

It's embarrassing. We just got BLOWN OUT by a mid-tier Big 12 team that was MISSING FOUR OF ITS TOP PLAYERS!

That tells you everything you need to know about where this program is at right now. That win gave ISU an all time record of 3-11 against Illinois. ISU has been a better program than Illinois for the last 10 years. A much better program. I S FREAKING U!!

It's sad and a little astonishing that we could have messed up a program with so many built in advantages this terribly. Sad.
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Mid-tier? seriously? They struggled last year but they way under performed. They are a solid team.
 
#93      
illini62707
Before the season started i said Illinois would have to score 80-90 points to win games against good teams. That's how bad the defense Underwood runs is. Well, i was wrong there going to have to score 90 to win. 88,84, 84 one heck of a start. You can't win games giving up the points this team gives up. And nobody took it upon themselves to shut Tucker down. Out rebounded. Again! It's not just height it's getting into position to get the rebound then getting it. For guys to play lazy and not be in position at this level is an embarrassment to the staff and players.
That's one bad half court offense the second half. Nothing but guys chucking 3's. I don't blame em' there were no other shots available. They ran a little weave or a ball screen none of which opened anything up or Trent dribbling around to no avail and a chuck. No rhythm to it.
This is a bad loss. They had 4 players missing and still win by 16!
 
#94      
IdahoIllini
I’m not sure Duke will beat the Zags by 20. They might be playing AZ instead with the Zags in a consolation game.
 
#95      
the national
Damir Krupalija’s Hair said:
Definitely more skilled and athletic than us with their ability to get in the lane and finish at the basket.

...Iowa St had multiple players with handles, blow by, and bounce to score at the basket. They could also get in the lane and create for each other. We just don’t have that caliber of fluid athlete. Haven’t had that in a long, long time.

And it’s even more concerning that they were missing some of their best players.
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That’s what Iowa state recruiters, slashers. They like attacking guards who can finish. It seems to work for them more years than not under Prohm and the mayor.
 
#96      
Obelix
mattcoldagelli said:
Agree that Tyler Underwood seeing the floor in front of Tevian Jones is a problem.
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By the time Tyler entered the game, it was already lost, so it was really irrelevant IMO. But the non-utilization of Tevian, independent of Tyler, is a big concern.
 
#97      
coachingillini
I am quickly souring on Underwood. I was one of the very last people still on board with the previous coaching staffs. But if BU does not change philosophically soon he will not be around after next year. The games are being called so close that BU defensive style just is not sustainable. Our team is not deep enough or athletic enough this year or next year to overcome this style of play.
 
#99      
Dbell1981
Obelix said:
By the time Tyler entered the game, it was already lost, so it was really irrelevant IMO. But the non-utilization of Tevian, independent of Tyler, is a big concern.
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Are you guys at practice every day? No. How do you know he isn't lost on defense? You dont. You just make assumptions based on what YOU think the lineup should be off of recruiting rankings, size, and athleticism. Not at all possible in your world that he isn't grasping the Xs and Os like he should or at the level to be on the floor consistently. Just like it wasnt possible in your world for Giorgi to be talented before the season began.
 
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