Jan 4th Polls - Illinois #12 in AP Poll

#28      
I might be wrong, but I wouldn't expect the full effects from our current season to be felt until a few classes down the road. And if we fall back into obscurity in the interim, then it might not happen at all. It's super obvious (almost to the point of not being worth saying), but we need to build upon our current success and turn it into sustained success. If I were a high-profile recruit considering Illinois right now, I would be asking, "is Illinois still going to be good without Ayo and Kofi?" Because I would expect to be joining a team without either of those players on it in the near future. If Underwood keeps this thing rolling, the dam could really burst open for us.

In theory at least.
We are here because we landed guys like Ayo, Kofi and Curbelo. They're already recruiting well. I expect Miller to grow into his potential, and even though he didn't amount to much here, Mark Smith was a big get.

The other shoe will drop recruiting wise when we get some of these guys making noise in the NBA. Being able to tell a big recruit that we groomed Kofi who is an NBA All Star, or Ayo who is tearing it up for the Pistons gives our offers teeth. That is for the recruits gunning for the NBA.
 
#29      
I like this recent quote from Shaka about rankings:

“If where you’re ranked dulls your edge, then you’re not a real competitor,” Smart said. “If your last game is still impressive to you two or three days later, then that doesn’t really say much about what you’re trying to be or where you’re trying to go.”
 
#30      
I remember when we used to say that to console ourselves about recruiting during the 2003-06 seasons. I believe Bruce said Jim Calhoun told him it takes a few years to get the recruiting bump after a Final Four. 😂😂😂
Yeah....who would've thought the bump would be in the negative direction :cool:
 
#31      
Orange Krush '13 -'14
I remember when we used to say that to console ourselves about recruiting during the 2003-06 seasons. I believe Bruce said Jim Calhoun told him it takes a few years to get the recruiting bump after a Final Four. 😂😂😂

The difference is that BU and his staff have already shown they can recruit, without needed Jerrance Howard too.

Can we please auto delete all posts that act like our staff still has to prove they aren't inept recruiters because of one (half) recruiting cycle? We literally have concrete evidence that its just untrue. If you don't believe me, watch the game Thursday and note who our All Americans are and who landed them.
 
#32      
The difference is that BU and his staff have already shown they can recruit, without needed Jerrance Howard too.

Can we please auto delete all posts that act like our staff still has to prove they aren't inept recruiters because of one (half) recruiting cycle? We literally have concrete evidence that its just untrue. If you don't believe me, watch the game Thursday and note who our All Americans are and who landed them.

The staff has landed 4 top 100 kids in 3 years. Weber landed higher ranked players from 2009-2011. There are numerous reasons why we didn't reach a higher level of success with those classes, but that isn't the point. You were specifically talking about recruiting.

We got incredibly lucky that Ayo decided to return.

You are more than welcome to feel how you feel, but not everyone has to feel the same way.
 
#34      
It's a little disingenuous to refer to Ayo, Kofi, Miller, and Curbelo as just "top 100 kids." Technically true, but skewed in a weird way to make your particular point.

How would you like me to refer to them? Top 50? Fine. ZERO other top 100 kids in 3 years. Henry, Shaw, and Abrams were all top 70. Richmond and Leonard were top 30. Crandall was top 80.

Bottom line is that if Ayo doesn't come back for year 3, we're a middle of the pack Big Ten team this year. Underwood's recruiting has not been significantly better than 2009-2011 Weber.
 
#35      
How would you like me to refer to them? Top 50? Fine. ZERO other top 100 kids in 3 years. Henry, Shaw, and Abrams were all top 70. Richmond and Leonard were top 30. Crandall was top 80.

Bottom line is that if Ayo doesn't come back for year 3, we're a middle of the pack Big Ten team this year. Underwood's recruiting has not been significantly better than 2009-2011 Weber.
Comparisons mean nothing with little context. Bruce Weber was recruiting kids to Illinois post the Bill Self era (78-24 record). Brad Underwood has recruited post the John Groce era (95-75 record). To expect Brad Underwood to be recruiting on par to what Weber was is silly. Brad has done a fantastic job, and I expect it to continue trending up as we win games.
 
#36      
Orange Krush '13 -'14
The staff has landed 4 top 100 kids in 3 years. Weber landed higher ranked players from 2009-2011. There are numerous reasons why we didn't reach a higher level of success with those classes, but that isn't the point. You were specifically talking about recruiting.

We got incredibly lucky that Ayo decided to return.

You are more than welcome to feel how you feel, but not everyone has to feel the same way.

Lol If you really want to debate if Weber was a better recruiter than BU, knock yourself out. And btw, the staff didn't just land 4 top 100 guys in 3 years...they landed 4 top 50 guys (if you go by 247).

The fact of the matter is that if you look at Illinois' highest 20 highest ranked recruits since they started the RSCI composite, Underwood and his staff have landed 4 of them. All top 60 guys. In his first 3 seasons. Coming off the lowest point of Illinois basketball in the last 40 years. His recruiting up until this point has frankly been a miracle in my eyes considering where we were.

Do we need to keep it up to sustain continued success at the top of the B1G for the next decade? Absolutely.
Should we be content with one good team every 3-4 years? Of course not.
But it's simply wrong to act like BU and his staff need to prove they can land elite talent when they already have.
 
#37      
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
How would you like me to refer to them? Top 50? Fine. ZERO other top 100 kids in 3 years. Henry, Shaw, and Abrams were all top 70. Richmond and Leonard were top 30. Crandall was top 80.

Bottom line is that if Ayo doesn't come back for year 3, we're a middle of the pack Big Ten team this year. Underwood's recruiting has not been significantly better than 2009-2011 Weber.
Using your own list, I would gladly take any two of Underwood's four "top 50" kids over Weber's three top 70s and one top 80. It's not even particularly close for me. The other pieces on the roster just push it further in Underwood's favor (in terms of both skill and roster construction).

But like you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion here.
 
#38      
Orange Krush '13 -'14
How would you like me to refer to them? Top 50? Fine. ZERO other top 100 kids in 3 years. Henry, Shaw, and Abrams were all top 70. Richmond and Leonard were top 30. Crandall was top 80.

Bottom line is that if Ayo doesn't come back for year 3, we're a middle of the pack Big Ten team this year. Underwood's recruiting has not been significantly better than 2009-2011 Weber.

You must be trolling at this point but it's slow at work so I'll take the bait.

Behind one curtain we have Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head, Jereme Richmond, Myke Henry, Mike Shaw, and Tracy Abrams.

Behind another curtain we have Ayo Dosunmu, Kofi Cockburn, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, and Giorgi B.

Which one you picking?
 
#39      
Baltimore, MD
The staff has landed 4 top 100 kids in 3 years. Weber landed higher ranked players from 2009-2011. There are numerous reasons why we didn't reach a higher level of success with those classes, but that isn't the point. You were specifically talking about recruiting.

We got incredibly lucky that Ayo decided to return.

You are more than welcome to feel how you feel, but not everyone has to feel the same way.
There's so much more than recruiting than putting numbers next to kids' names. How much of a difference do you really believe there is between guys ranked between 50 and 150? Recruiting is all about finding guys that you can develop, regardless of stars assigned by a recruiting service. In 3 years BU has had 3 guys on the All-B1G Freshman Team and one win B1G Freshman of the year (both media and coaches). One each year so far:
2017-18 - Frazier
2018-19 - Ayo
2019-20 - Kofi (B1G Freshman of the Year)

Weber landed higher ranking players, but he only had 3 guys make that same list between 2005-06 and 2011-12. You can make the point that Frazier wasn't recruited by BU, but he developed him at the college level and Weber had a guy make the list his first year as well, who he likely didn't recruit himself. Also, a Weber recruit never won both the Media and Coaches award for FOY, DJ Richardson won only the Coaches FOY in 2009-10.

Let's also not forget the freshman year that Giorgi had AND the fact we landed the #1 JUCO PG in Feliz. Not everybody has to feel the same way, but to contest that recruiting abilities are based solely on a recruits rank when committed or signed is incredibly short-sighted.
 
#40      
You must be trolling at this point but it's slow at work so I'll take the bait.

Behind one curtain we have Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head, Jereme Richmond, Myke Henry, Mike Shaw, and Tracy Abrams.

Behind another curtain we have Ayo Dosunmu, Kofi Cockburn, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, and Giorgi B.

Which one you picking?

Oh god - I specifically talked about recruiting, not development. Prior to entering college, many people would have chosen Jereme over Ayo and Meyers over Kofi. If you don't think so, you're fooling yourself.

So now you're asking me if, prior to entering college, I would rather have had Tracy Abrams, Myke Henry, Crandall Head, and Mike Shaw or Adam Miller and Andre Curbelo... many people would choose the depth. People also forget how good Tracy was before the injuries. Crandall was an athletic freak and Henry was actually a pretty darn good player.

Edited to add bold.
 
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#41      
Comparisons mean nothing with little context. Bruce Weber was recruiting kids to Illinois post the Bill Self era (78-24 record). Brad Underwood has recruited post the John Groce era (95-75 record). To expect Brad Underwood to be recruiting on par to what Weber was is silly. Brad has done a fantastic job, and I expect it to continue trending up as we win games.

By 2009, Bruce Weber was not recruiting kids to Illinois in the post Bill Self era. He was recruiting kids to Illinois during the Bruce Weber era. I would argue that recruiting to play FOR Bruce Weber is pretty damn hard to do.
 
#42      
Using your own list, I would gladly take any two of Underwood's four "top 50" kids over Weber's three top 70s and one top 80. It's not even particularly close for me. The other pieces on the roster just push it further in Underwood's favor (in terms of both skill and roster construction).

But like you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion here.

You have the benefit of hindsight. Would you rather take 4 years of Brandon Paul or what you know so far of Adam Miller?

Brandon Paul was ranked much lower, obviously, but with the benefit of hindsight, you can make yourself look as smart as you'd like.
 
#43      
Lol If you really want to debate if Weber was a better recruiter than BU, knock yourself out. And btw, the staff didn't just land 4 top 100 guys in 3 years...they landed 4 top 50 guys (if you go by 247).

The fact of the matter is that if you look at Illinois' highest 20 highest ranked recruits since they started the RSCI composite, Underwood and his staff have landed 4 of them. All top 60 guys. In his first 3 seasons. Coming off the lowest point of Illinois basketball in the last 40 years. His recruiting up until this point has frankly been a miracle in my eyes considering where we were.

Do we need to keep it up to sustain continued success at the top of the B1G for the next decade? Absolutely.
Should we be content with one good team every 3-4 years? Of course not.
But it's simply wrong to act like BU and his staff need to prove they can land elite talent when they already have.

I never said Weber was a better recruiter. I said Underwood isn't a much better recruiter than Weber. Nice try, though.

Getting top 60-70 or so kids to come to Illinois has never been a problem, for any coach.

Again, if not for Covid-19 and Ayo coming back, we'd be right in the middle of the Big Ten, fighting for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament.
 
#44      
Orange Krush '13 -'14
By 2009, Bruce Weber was not recruiting kids to Illinois in the post Bill Self era. He was recruiting kids to Illinois during the Bruce Weber era. I would argue that recruiting to play FOR Bruce Weber is pretty damn hard to do.

Wow, we've really found the "Actually Bruce Weber was a good recruiter" truther.

I've truly seen it all!
 
#45      
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
You have the benefit of hindsight. Would you rather take 4 years of Brandon Paul or what you know so far of Adam Miller?

Brandon Paul was ranked much lower, obviously, but with the benefit of hindsight, you can make yourself look as smart as you'd like.
Opting for Miller and Curbelo over your list of four Weber recruits isn't hindsight. We're only about halfway into their first seasons. Pick a lane.
 
#46      
Not exactly excited to see a very capable NU team kicked out of the top 25. We better be ready to play on Thursday!

With that said, if we beat NU and beat Maryland at home on Sunday (as we should), I think we have a single digit ranking next to our name again. Our jump from #6 to #13 to #18 was kind of drastic, considering we lost to the #2 team in the country on a neutral floor and the #13 and #15 teams on the road by three points, each. I think the pollsters got kind of spooked that we ~already had three losses~, but I think we are easily back in the top 10 again if we are sitting at 10-3 (5-1), on a five-game winning streak!
 
#47      
Wow, we've really found the "Actually Bruce Weber was a good recruiter" truther.

I've truly seen it all!

I was FAR from a Weber apologist, but didn't he actually "recruit pretty well" strictly going by the numbers? His problem seemed to be that he was terrible at crafting a full roster, and we paid for it with gaping holes on teams that had a few very talented players. So, we wound up with McCamey and Brandon Paul playing hero ball due to lack of other options. Combine that with what I believed to be Weber's very limited/specific coaching abilities, and you wound up with a lot of disappointing seasons where we'd miss the Tournament (or barely get in) because of some bad losses while also posting some really good wins. It was a very infuriating time...

Glad to be done with that!!
 
#48      
Oh boy...The "Illini #12 in AP poll "
thread has turned into a recruiting "Cat Fight" thread?

I would really rather have a "best player development" coach era debate...btw I think BU staff is better than JG and BW.
 
#49      
Worrying about rankings about equivalent to me about only valuing offense on players. Worry about a competing team on the floor.