John Groce at Illinois

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#2,251      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
MadtownIllin said:
While every year of JFG's tenure has made me less and less of a believer of his coaching skills, I believe he will get another year if only because of the poor image that could result in relieving him after the year of injuries. (I.e. Prospective coaches may not see this as giving him a fair chance so less likely to get the best candidates) However, if I was the new AD I would insist that he bring on an assistant coach who was an excellent in game coach and defensive guru. Not sure who should be replaced but the need for someone to improve the in game situation adjustments along with a substantial increase in defensive skills would probably supersede anything that the assistants are currently bringing to the table...
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While the staff leaves much to be desired, the first priority would be to bring in someone who can bring new life to the program and help recruit better talent. I'd take Dee Brown anytime over a veteran assistant etc. Chances that there will be multiple changes at the assistant level are almost non-existent, so priorities need to be set. Having said that, I am not sure any changes will be made though.
 
#2,252      

SaveChief

S
SaveChief
MadtownIllin said:
While every year of JFG's tenure has made me less and less of a believer of his coaching skills, I believe he will get another year if only because of the poor image that could result in relieving him after the year of injuries. (I.e. Prospective coaches may not see this as giving him a fair chance so less likely to get the best candidates) However, if I was the new AD I would insist that he bring on an assistant coach who was an excellent in game coach and defensive guru. Not sure who should be replaced but the need for someone to improve the in game situation adjustments along with a substantial increase in defensive skills would probably supersede anything that the assistants are currently bringing to the table...
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You might be right in that there would probably be a bit of hesitation based upon the misconception that injuries caused the Illini issues. However, any coaching candidate worth his salt would watch tape to get a feel for the talent on the team. The minute such a candidate watches the tape, he will understand JG being let go. If JG is not fired, I agree with you at a minimum new coaches have to be brought on staff, but I think the offense is even worse than the defense....
 
#2,254      

icengineer

I
Southern Illinois
icengineer
Obelix said:
Your definition of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and all that is totally arbitrary as far as getting a HC job. At UI Jerrance was the top paid assistant, that is much more important as far as determining value, the only one to get assistant offers under many of the top coaches (Cal, Donovan, Brown, Self), the only one who got offered an assistant's job from Weber's staff, and the only one who had a chance to ever become a Div. I head coach.

At KU, Danny Manning was the 3rd assistant by your definition as well. Yet, he became the HC at Wake Forest. 1st, 2nd, 3rd mean very little. Roberts has been the longest and top (by your definition) assistant at KU, but chances that Roberts gets a HC job after two failed stints are slim to none. Yet, he is a very good and respected top assistant. Shaka Smart was a long time assistant under Purnell, yet he took the 3rd assistant's job with Donovan for less than a year before ending up with the VCU HC job. Seniority of assistants or perceived hierarchy means very little. Marketability is what is important.
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I understand where you are coming from, but that doesn't really sway me into thinking JH is soon to be HC material, especially at UI. It's not uncommon for salesmen to be among the highest wage earners in any business, even basketball. And what is a recruiter? A salesman! The Danny Manning type examples are the exception. I can pretty much guarantee (without researching) that the vast majority of Assistant Coaches that go on to become Head Coaches are of the '1st Assistant' variety. Granted the whole 1st, 2nd, 3rd thing, is an arbitrary term. Now I have no doubt that JH will get a D1 opportunity at some point in the future. Short term it will be a lower or mid level D1 school (think Bradley, ISU, SIU-C type), 10 years from now? Perhaps something higher. I get the JH love around here. I just don't get the 'Let's hire JH as HC at UI!!' love.
 
#2,255      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
icengineer said:
I understand where you are coming from, but that doesn't really sway me into thinking JH is soon to be HC material, especially at UI. It's not uncommon for salesmen to be among the highest wage earners in any business, even basketball. And what is a recruiter? A salesman! The Danny Manning type examples are the exception. I can pretty much guarantee (without researching) that the vast majority of Assistant Coaches that go on to become Head Coaches are of the '1st Assistant' variety. Granted the whole 1st, 2nd, 3rd thing, is an arbitrary term. Now I have no doubt that JH will get a D1 opportunity at some point in the future. Short term it will be a lower or mid level D1 school (think Bradley, ISU, SIU-C type), 10 years from now? Perhaps something higher. I get the JH love around here. I just don't get the 'Let's hire JH as HC at UI!!' love.
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Everyone has their opinion. But your supporting argument of 1st, 2nd, 3rd assistant hierarchy has holes and is arbitrary. Seniority and hierarchy means nothing, it is marketability that counts. I gave you examples close to home, our own Illinois and Kansas, there are many more. Hardly the exception. Roberts is the top assistant at KU, he is not going anywhere soon. Not only with Manning, but next time around. Shaka was 3rd assistant for less than a year, became the VCU coach.

It is marketability. Not sure where Jerrance will end up, but he will definitely get his chances out of KU. If he is smart, he will wait for the right opportunity. Given how the basketball dynamics have changed, taking just any Div. I opportunity can be a graveyard. Strong recruiters have an advantage, will always have. Even at Illinois, unless a coach is a strong recruiter and gets the talent, he will not survive. Chances that you will outdevelop and outcoach B1G coaches and teams with lesser talent are slim to none. Same with assistants. I'd take Dee Brown over veteran assistants that we could attract at UI.
 
#2,256      

SaveChief

S
SaveChief
Head Coach

Nothing against Jerrance or Dee, but doesn't it seem like we need to get someone who has a proven track record of head coaching and recruiting, game tape of his philosophy? I am just not sure Illinois fans have the patience for an experiment. I am also not sure the program can afford another 4 year bust... I am not saying they are not qualified, they may end up being great, just not sure about the timing relative to where we have been since 2009.
 
#2,257      

Combo

C
Combo
SaveChief said:
You might be right in that there would probably be a bit of hesitation based upon the misconception that injuries caused the Illini issues. However, any coaching candidate worth his salt would watch tape to get a feel for the talent on the team. The minute such a candidate watches the tape, he will understand JG being let go. If JG is not fired, I agree with you at a minimum new coaches have to be brought on staff, but I think the offense is even worse than the defense....
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It's not a misconception. The talent on this team is weak compared to most Big Ten teams. (W/o Abrams, Black, and Thorne). On paper, I'd say this is a 5-win team in the Big Ten. Which is where we are.

While I'm certainly not convinced that Groce is the right guy, there's not a coach in the country that could do much with what we have available now.
 
#2,258      

IrishIllini

I
IrishIllini
Combo said:
It's not a misconception. The talent on this team is weak compared to most Big Ten teams. (W/o Abrams, Black, and Thorne). On paper, I'd say this is a 5-win team in the Big Ten. Which is where we are.

While I'm certainly not convinced that Groce is the right guy, there's not a coach in the country that could do much with what we have available now.
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Lol, hindsight is 20/20?
 
#2,259      

Captain Bubbles

Captain Bubbles
Fairfield, IL
Captain Bubbles
I may be the oddest one of all when it comes to whoever will coach following Groce, but there are two names that have stood out to me.

The first one is Archie Miller of Dayton, and I think he's really good. The next one may surprise you and it's a long shot, but I like Marty Simmons of Evansville. I would like to see "The Mule" return to Champaign, but only this time as a head coach. I have to give him and his coaching staff credit for putting Evansville basketball back on the map and they are currently having a good season. I know the community and fans are amped about it.

I don't think they will make the NCAA tourney. But they are one of the best mid-majors in America that no one is talking about. 24-8 overall with a 12-6 conference record is pretty solid, and they are behind Wichita State. If Simmons keeps having seasons like this, he may be going a step higher.
 
#2,260      

IlliniByProxy

IlliniByProxy
St. Joseph, IL
IlliniByProxy
Josh Whitman on WDWS just gave an endorsement for Groce as 2016-2017 head bball coach. Looks like they are trying to set the table for the 2017 recruiting class.
 
#2,261      

IAmChrisFarley

I
IAmChrisFarley
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1457190705.051896.jpg

Here's the vote of confidence
 
#2,262      

CUWPC

C
Geneva, IL
CUWPC
IlliniByProxy said:
Josh Whitman on WDWS just gave an endorsement for Groce as 2016-2017 head bball coach. Looks like they are trying to set the table for the 2017 recruiting class.
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Not the biggest Groce fan at this point but it's the right move. He'll need to produce next year and close big on the 2017 class to stay longer.
 
#2,263      

Chris Yates

Chris Yates
Recruiting Correspondent
Michigan
Chris Yates
IlliniByProxy said:
Josh Whitman on WDWS just gave an endorsement for Groce as 2016-2017 head bball coach. Looks like they are trying to set the table for the 2017 recruiting class.
Click to expand...

As Slim Shady put it: "Guess who's back, back again?" :D
 
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