John Groce at Illinois

TCTORNADO · Feb 5, 2016

Well at least we would have all fan bases covered with Drew, the uber religious and Keatts, the hooker arranger.

eMitch · Feb 5, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Are you new to college sports?

It's certainly one path. Are you saying it is the only path?

HerbertFish · Feb 5, 2016

Right on cue, Louisville announces that it will ban itself from postseason play.

Adnarel · Feb 5, 2016

jmwillini said:
I understand why this thread has so many posts, but when was the last time the recruiting thread was 8th on the board and no posts in two days?

Part of that is a function of this being a slower time of the year for recruiting (coaches busy with conference season). The other part is that the folks we have our eyes on aren't really close to announcing so there's not much buzz. Contrast this to a couple of weeks ago when the Aussie big was still in the air. This thread was hot.

Cubby Blue · Feb 5, 2016

HerbertFish said:
Right on cue, Louisville announces that it will ban itself from postseason play.

Goody, more free time to be at the bordello.

Illiniwek06 · Feb 5, 2016

HerbertFish said:
Right on cue, Louisville announces that it will ban itself from postseason play.

So ... how long before the "Snider transfer to Illinois!!?" thread is started?

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Feb 5, 2016

Second and Chalmers said:
Well sure, but us being worse doesn't make lesser coaches better.

Let's say Georgetown or Memphis or Georgia Tech opens up this offseason. Are they hot after Bryce Drew? I don't see it, personally.

Memphis? Probably the right level of coach, but Drew is probably not a good fit there. I wouldn't rule him out for the other two. As we've seen with recent coaching searches (not just our own), it's a different world out there. Some programs like Wichita St and Xavier are stepping up to pay their coaches pretty well, so that's removed a certain level of candidates for the high majors to go after.

WhatEvs said:
Knowingly climbing into bed w/ sleaze is your road to success? If you're right, I need a new hobby/rooting interest.

Why do people think we're not playing in the gray areas? We're going up against some programs that are "in bed" themselves, so either we are also doing that or we're really wasting time going after the wrong guys. And I'm going to guess you'll choose the latter response....

GreenwoodAve · Feb 5, 2016

What exactly has he done that doesn't excite anybody? His body of work is probably better than/equal to Archie. The only coach I would put higher than him as a replacement would be Greg Marshall. After this season Drew will have won the Horizon 4 out of 5. The worst finish was 4th place. He played in the NBA and by all accounts is a good coach. The step up to B10 from Horizon is obvisouly a concern,but that's tru for any candidate.

roger murdock · Feb 5, 2016

zpfled said:
Shaw, Henry, and Griffey had accomplished pretty much nothing until Groce came here. Abrams was not a very effective PG.

We had talent on the wings, a good defensive center, and no offense from our bigs.

The OP described the roster as being "completely garbage" and being unbalanced when Groce got here. That is revisionist history, Groce didn't inherit an empty cupboard.

And Abrams is STILL the best point guard Groce has had at Illinois.

Newman · Feb 5, 2016

GreenwoodAve said:
What exactly has he done that doesn't excite anybody? His body of work is probably better than/equal to Archie. The only coach I would put higher than him as a replacement would be Greg Marshall. After this season Drew will have won the Horizon 4 out of 5. The worst finish was 4th place. He played in the NBA and by all accounts is a good coach. The step up to B10 from Horizon is obvisouly a concern,but that's tru for any candidate.

Not winning a tourney game is better than Archie's 5 wins? Come on now. Do you really value mid major conference wins over NCAA tourney wins?

Adnarel · Feb 5, 2016

roger murdock said:
That is revisionist history, Groce didn't inherit an empty cupboard.

Okay, so he inherited a cupboard that contained a few cans of soup and some saltines, and nothing else for when those had been eaten.

hooraybeer · Feb 5, 2016

Illiniwek06 said:
So ... how long before the "Snider transfer to Illinois!!?" thread is started?

do you think he would consider us?

mattcoldagelli · Feb 5, 2016

eMitch said:
It's certainly one path. Are you saying it is the only path?

Depends on how broadly you define "sleaze" - to me, there's something pretty sleazy about the farce of "amateurism" that the NCAA fights tooth and nail to maintain. There's something pretty sleazy about the way coaches and athletic departments are allowed to do what they want with minimal meaningful oversight while players get blocked from transferring, get suspended for rules that almost nobody knows exist, or any other manner of treating them as if they were 9, not 19.

Illiniwek06 · Feb 5, 2016

hooraybeer said:
do you think he would consider us?

In the same vein as ILLijah Thomas.

Second and Chalmers · Feb 5, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
Depends on how broadly you define "sleaze" - to me, there's something pretty sleazy about the farce of "amateurism" that the NCAA fights tooth and nail to maintain. There's something pretty sleazy about the way coaches and athletic departments are allowed to do what they want with minimal meaningful oversight while players get blocked from transferring, get suspended for rules that almost nobody knows exist, or any other manner of treating them as if they were 9, not 19.

:hail:

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Feb 5, 2016

Adnarel said:
Okay, so he inherited a cupboard that contained a few cans of soup and some saltines, and nothing else for when those had been eaten.

And those cans of soup had an expiration date of "today".

HeartofaChampion · Feb 5, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
Why do people think we're not playing in the gray areas? We're going up against some programs that are "in bed" themselves, so either we are also doing that or we're really wasting time going after the wrong guys. And I'm going to guess you'll choose the latter response....

The former is correct. But it's pretty much done by every P5 school anymore. NCAA has lost control of that issue.

Sal Iacuzzo · Feb 5, 2016

If we do make a change either this year or next Will Wade at VCU would be someone who deserves serious consideration.

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Feb 5, 2016

HeartofaChampion said:
But it's pretty much done by every P5 school anymore. NCAA has lost control of that issue.

Yeah, just about all of their enforcement staff quit at one point not long ago. They still talk a good game but really don't have much bite.

Illwinsagain · Feb 5, 2016

coryfor3 said:
Recruiting hasn't really been very exciting since about 2003.

Come on, Cliffmas was very exciting. In the worst way imaginable, but exciting.

Tevo · Feb 5, 2016

mattcoldagelli said:
...Second, as much as you'd like to secure interest and have a hot list of candidates from working back channels, the decision to fire a coach can't be predicated on who else you can get. As we learned the last time around, the risk is absurdly high. And further, our program is at the point where we're going to have to catch someone on the upswing or with a lot of unanswered questions. Using this logic, you'd have a tough time EVER firing Groce.

Yeah, this is a good point. The longer the program looks this bad, the harder (and more expensive) it will be to attract a good coach with all those positive attributes in recruiting and winning and tournament play that we all want. If we're worried that we don't have anyone clearly better than Groce that would accept the job, and thus keep Groce around, it just gets worse the next year.

So you only keep Groce if you truly believe he has a good shot at turning it around and becoming successful, not because of uncertainty that the next guy will do better.

Ramrod2010 · Feb 5, 2016

TCTORNADO said:
That's a rather stiff penalty.

Low brow humor at its finest. I chuckled, thank you.

GetAWin · Feb 5, 2016

TCTORNADO said:
That's a rather stiff penalty.

Hilarious !

Newman · Feb 5, 2016

Tevo said:
Yeah, this is a good point. The longer the program looks this bad, the harder (and more expensive) it will be to attract a good coach with all those positive attributes in recruiting and winning and tournament play that we all want. If we're worried that we don't have anyone clearly better than Groce that would accept the job, and thus keep Groce around, it just gets worse the next year.

So you only keep Groce if you truly believe he has a good shot at turning it around and becoming successful, not because of uncertainty that the next guy will do better.

We're somewhere in middle where it's expensive to make a risky coaching decision not only because we might get stuck with someone that's like Groce or even worse, but because we also have to buy out Groce's contract. Don't forget that the AD is going to be evaluated as well, and if he has to pay Groce millions to fire him and pay a coach that produces similar results on top of that, he's not going to be popular at all. Add that to whatever decision he has to make with the football program, it may end up being in his own best interest to make a more conservative decision, AKA the more likely decision.. Of retaining have him.

Sybok · Feb 5, 2016

Newman said:
We're somewhere in middle where it's expensive to make a risky coaching decision not only because we might get stuck with someone that's like Groce or even worse, but because we also have to buy out Groce's contract. Don't forget that the AD is going to be evaluated as well, and if he has to pay Groce millions to fire him and pay a coach that produces similar results on top of that, he's not going to be popular at all. Add that to whatever decision he has to make with the football program, it may end up being in his own best interest to make a more conservative decision, AKA the more likely decision.. Of retaining have him.

If it's the bidding of the big boosters to pay the buyout and hire a new, more expensive coach it isn't risky at all.