Looking ahead to 2021-2022

FollowMeDontFollowMe · Apr 8, 2021

Teams generally play 7. I know that a deeper bench is an asset and those guys can be the difference in a couple of games but generally a team will play 7 regulars. Even the loaded Duke and Kentucky teams that have 4 stars on the bench do so.

I just checked the 2018 Duke team that had 9 top 100 players and 6 in the top 25 - they played 7 guys unless it was garbage time or foul trouble.

I get the sense some of you think the team needs to be stacked top to bottom to be “good”.

FollowMeDontFollowMe · Apr 8, 2021

Hopingfor500 said:
Payne is a proven and productive big man? What had he proved and what was his production?

3.8 PPG
3.2 RPG
15 Minutes per Game

Trying to understand your take in him.

Proven to be capable of stepping into Giorgi’s role?

CurbeloYourEnthusiasm · Apr 8, 2021

FollowMeDontFollowMe said:
I get the sense some of you think the team needs to be stacked top to bottom to be “good”.

Well we just lost 6 of our top 7. I don't think anyone is concerned about the end of the bench roles of Hamlin, Lieb, BBD. We're concerned about finding a top 6.

LIfan · Apr 9, 2021

Hopingfor500 said:
Payne is a proven and productive big man? What had he proved and what was his production?

3.8 PPG
3.2 RPG
15 Minutes per Game

Trying to understand your take in him.

He was used as a role guy for the Gators but given the opportunity with plays going into bigs is the reason why he is coming. Will he dominate? Maybe not. But he is battle ready and I think he wants to let the country know who he really is.

blackdog · Apr 9, 2021

Hopingfor500 said:
Payne is a proven and productive big man? What had he proved and what was his production?

3.8 PPG
3.2 RPG
15 Minutes per Game

Trying to understand your take in him.

Admittedly a small sample size but in the 5 games he had over 20 minutes he had 3 games of 10 points and 1 of 9. Also 2 9 rebound efforts in those games. Combine that with averaging over a block a game in only 15 minutes and I think he showed some potential for more production. Can he sustain over a whole season is the big question but from what I've seen of opinions of the Florida coaching staff developing players is think there is room for optimism.

SKane · Apr 9, 2021

FollowMeDontFollowMe said:
Teams generally play 7. I know that a deeper bench is an asset and those guys can be the difference in a couple of games but generally a team will play 7 regulars. Even the loaded Duke and Kentucky teams that have 4 stars on the bench do so.

I just checked the 2018 Duke team that had 9 top 100 players and 6 in the top 25 - they played 7 guys unless it was garbage time or foul trouble.

I get the sense some of you think the team needs to be stacked top to bottom to be “good”.

No. However, a teams need more bench talent than what we appear to have in order to give the top seven/eight a good level of competition in practice.

the juiceman cometh · Apr 9, 2021

FollowMeDontFollowMe said:
Teams generally play 7. I know that a deeper bench is an asset and those guys can be the difference in a couple of games but generally a team will play 7 regulars. Even the loaded Duke and Kentucky teams that have 4 stars on the bench do so.

I just checked the 2018 Duke team that had 9 top 100 players and 6 in the top 25 - they played 7 guys unless it was garbage time or foul trouble.

I get the sense some of you think the team needs to be stacked top to bottom to be “good”.

As of now our top 7 returning players in minutes are:

Kofi
Curbelo
Grandison
Hawkins
Hamlin
Lieb
BBV

And who knows if Kofi comes back. Only 4 of those guys played more than 8 games, and only 3 of them more than 15 min a game.

FollowMeDontFollowMe · Apr 9, 2021

the juiceman cometh said:
As of now our top 7 returning players in minutes are:

Kofi
Curbelo
Grandison
Hawkins
Hamlin
Lieb
BBV

And who knows if Kofi comes back. Only 4 of those guys played more than 8 games, and only 3 of them more than 15 min a game.

So assuming Kofi returns until he says he isn’t you’re not happy with the roster adding Payne, Hutcherson, and the freshmen?

I accept it’s a matter of opinion but I feel good about that roster.

Baskins Tiger · Apr 9, 2021

I am excited for next season.. son far away. The players on the team, like Bossman and Hamlin have to be better than we have seen publicly on tue court. This team has made significant strides between the last 2 seasons and that doesn't happen without everyone playing better. The aforementioned players when not injured have been banging against Kofi and Georgie for 2 years, they have to be tough. Also Bossman held down Garza pretty well. There seem to be some apprehensive fans here, we will be alright.

ugottabjoshinme · Apr 9, 2021

LouHenson said:
What we really need now is a statement from Kofi on his intentions either way. If he is staying we are fine, if is going to leave then our chances of getting (I know most don’t want him but he is the best example I can think of as type of transfer) a Nate Reuvers type of transfer or two goes up a bunch. The longer it takes Kofi to say either way the less options Underwood will have in the portal.

Maybe Underwood can sell that Kofi is gone now? But would any top big man transfer believe it?

I wish GB nothing but the best he for sure is doing the best thing for his future, but I don’t much like the way college basketball is moving these days. It used to be only the blue bloods had to reload every year now it is every team. It is way past time for the baseball rule (you can go pro out of college but if you go to college 3 year minimum) and there is no way that this transfer once with no penalty is good for the game. It just is not the same having to rebuild your team every year

I don't think we are going to get that until summer. He is going to (or should) declare for the draft and get feedback. Then make a decision as the deadline comes up on what he wants to do.

ugottabjoshinme · Apr 9, 2021

illinitiger said:
I understand they can sign with agent,....and if they dont get an NBA draft #...they can come back to school as long as they cancel their agent contract.

It can't be any agent. There is a list of approved agents someone can sign with and come back to school.

EDIT: This might be wrong and it could be an agent now.

AttentionDeficit · Apr 9, 2021

A quick aside for those anxious to know about Kofi, last year Ayo declared his return on July 31st, and Kofi the next day on August 1st. You likely have a long wait ahead.

Fanview · Apr 9, 2021

AttentionDeficit said:
A quick aside for those anxious to know about Kofi, last year Ayo declared his return on July 31st, and Kofi the next day on August 1st. You likely have a long wait ahead.

Yea, but this was because of Covid. These things usually happen much sooner

ugottabjoshinme · Apr 9, 2021

AttentionDeficit said:
A quick aside for those anxious to know about Kofi, last year Ayo declared his return on July 31st, and Kofi the next day on August 1st. You likely have a long wait ahead.

The withdraw date from the draft is July 19. So, beginning of July is probably the latest it will go.

the juiceman cometh · Apr 9, 2021

FollowMeDontFollowMe said:
So assuming Kofi returns until he says he isn’t you’re not happy with the roster adding Payne, Hutcherson, and the freshmen?

I accept it’s a matter of opinion but I feel good about that roster.

For one I dont buy the 7 man rotation thing. Think you really need at least 8. Let's compare rotations in the scenario you're describing

From:
Ayo
Frazier
Miller
Grandison
Kofi
Belo
DMW
Giorgi

To:
Belo
Hutch
Grandison
Hawkins
Kofi
Payne
Goode?
Melendez?
BBV?

Lotta things need to go right for that rotation to work. Hutch needs to be healthy and as good as advertised. 2 freshmen need to be immediately impactful (happened this year, but those were 2 top 40 recruits. Goode and Melendez are great, but not top 40 guys). Hawkins needs to make a major jump. Not saying it can't all happen, but it's asking for a lot of things to break just right.

Fanview · Apr 9, 2021

This is a lot of roster comparisons for a roster that still has ~3 months to finalize. We have 0 idea what the finished product looks like. Add a big transfer/prospect and the conversation shifts quickly.

CubsIlliniFan · Apr 9, 2021

Hopingfor500 said:
Payne is a proven and productive big man? What had he proved and what was his production?

3.8 PPG
3.2 RPG
15 Minutes per Game

Trying to understand your take in him.

Payne was in a system that obviously did not work for him. Put him with OA for the summer and he could be a double double guy with Belo feeding him the ball. If Kofi is gone that is. If Kofi is back, Payne can be a solid piece. We will be fine.

CubsIlliniFan · Apr 9, 2021

the juiceman cometh said:
For one I dont buy the 7 man rotation thing. Think you really need at least 8. Let's compare rotations in the scenario you're describing

From:
Ayo
Frazier
Miller
Grandison
Kofi
Belo
DMW
Giorgi

To:
Belo
Hutch
Grandison
Hawkins
Kofi
Payne
Goode?
Melendez?
BBV?

Lotta things need to go right for that rotation to work. Hutch needs to be healthy and as good as advertised. 2 freshmen need to be immediately impactful (happened this year, but those were 2 top 40 recruits. Goode and Melendez are great, but not top 40 guys). Hawkins needs to make a major jump. Not saying it can't all happen, but it's asking for a lot of things to break just right.

This roster is in no way finished. We have at least one to three spots to fill. Yes , it is frustrating to see players pass on us but there are many more who can fit what we need. We will be fine.

the juiceman cometh · Apr 9, 2021

CubsIlliniFan said:
This roster is in no way finished. We have at least one to three spots to fill. Yes , it is frustrating to see players pass on us but there are many more who can fit what we need. We will be fine.

Fair enough, but I was responding to another poster who felt good about the rotation with current and known incoming players.

We have no idea what this roster will look like. It could be very good. Or Kofi could leave and then it could very easily miss the tourney. Even in the best case scenario it's going to be a completely different team from last year's. As someone who loved last year's team, that's a bummer.

EyeoftheIllini · Apr 9, 2021

Baskins Tiger said:
I am excited for next season.. son far away. The players on the team, like Bossman and Hamlin have to be better than we have seen publicly on tue court. This team has made significant strides between the last 2 seasons and that doesn't happen without everyone playing better. The aforementioned players when not injured have been banging against Kofi and Georgie for 2 years, they have to be tough. Also Bossman held down Garza pretty well. There seem to be some apprehensive fans here, we will be alright.

Held Garza down? BBV played 1 minute against Iowa. I have no idea what we have in BBV and Hamlin (if he stays; some say he is going to transfer), and anybody who says they do is full of it. Should going up against Kofi and Giorgi help their development? Yes, probably. Does it mean they will be solid contributors or more this year? No.

Illini Farmer · Apr 9, 2021

CubsIlliniFan said:
Payne was in a system that obviously did not work for him. Put him with OA for the summer and he could be a double double guy with Belo feeding him the ball. If Kofi is gone that is. If Kofi is back, Payne can be a solid piece. We will be fine.

Another thing to note about Payne is that he was playing behind a good center in Colin Castleton. From the minutes situation it looks similar to Giorgi playing behind Kofi where they didn’t play with each other. Payne‘s per game stats are 15.7 minutes, 3.8 pts, 3.2 rebs, 1.2 blks. Castleton‘s per game stats are 25.8 mins, 12.4 pts, 6.4 rebs, 2.3 blk. Payne’s rebounding stats are a bit concerning if you doubled them based on 30 minutes, but the blocks would be good.

the juiceman cometh · Apr 9, 2021

Illini Farmer said:
Another thing to note about Payne is that he was playing behind a good center in Colin Castleton. From the minutes situation it looks similar to Giorgi playing behind Kofi where they didn’t play with each other. Payne‘s per game stats are 15.7 minutes, 3.8 pts, 3.2 rebs, 1.2 blks. Castleton‘s per game stats are 25.8 mins, 12.4 pts, 6.4 rebs, 2.3 blk. Payne’s rebounding stats are a bit concerning if you doubled them based on 30 minutes, but the blocks would be good.

I feel good about Payne as backup center. Defensively I think he'll be great. I'd worry about him offensively if he ends up playing starter minutes due to Kofi leaving. My biggest concern, other than Kofi leaving, is our guard rotation. We essentially have 2 guards returning from a team that had 6 guards in rotation. Hutch will fill one spot if healthy and even if you assume we go bigger lineup this year and replace a couple rotation spots with forwards (Hawkins and one of the freshmen), we still need at least one more guard.

LIfan · Apr 9, 2021

the juiceman cometh said:
For one I dont buy the 7 man rotation thing. Think you really need at least 8. Let's compare rotations in the scenario you're describing

From:
Ayo
Frazier
Miller
Grandison
Kofi
Belo
DMW
Giorgi

To:
Belo
Hutch
Grandison
Hawkins
Kofi
Payne
Goode?
Melendez?
BBV?

Lotta things need to go right for that rotation to work. Hutch needs to be healthy and as good as advertised. 2 freshmen need to be immediately impactful (happened this year, but those were 2 top 40 recruits. Goode and Melendez are great, but not top 40 guys). Hawkins needs to make a major jump. Not saying it can't all happen, but it's asking for a lot of things to break just right.

I think Melendez is going to contibute immediately.

the juiceman cometh · Apr 9, 2021

LIfan said:
I think Melendez is going to contibute immediately.

I'd love for that to happen. I'd also love to have a backup plan, because he is a freshman after all

Illwinsagain · Apr 9, 2021

the juiceman cometh said:
I'd love for that to happen. I'd also love to have a backup plan, because he is a freshman after all

I take solace that in BU's first 4 years, he has had an all B1G freshman team player. Trent wasn't top 40, Kofi 46 (?). Also, Giorgi contributed a lot, and was ranked in the back half of the 300's. He plays his freshman, if they can help. In fact, he starts freshman (5 in 4 years).