Loyola Chicago 71, Illinois 58 Postgame

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#351      

Deleted member 747903

D
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For our offense, they doubled us up where the ball went and we didn't respond. The best way to defeat that is find open guys on weak side...that opening was available often....and coaches didn't recognize it nor our players.

I chalk this loss up to inferior BB IQ on floor and on bench, as much as I hate to admit it.

Raftery called it on the broadcast. He said they have to get away from the ball screen because they were walking right into a double team. Trust me Brad is going to learn from this because teams will soon enough do this to Belo
 
#353      
Having watched every Illini game since 2004-05 season, it was a great pleasure to watch this team grow and mature over the last 3 years. I feel bad for the players not reaching their final goal. They put in such hard work to win the BTT not to mention all the clutch performances down the regular season stretch. This final game was hard to watch and so many little things did not go our way. The tone was set early in the game. A 10 point deficit felt like 20 with the slow, methodical pace which Loyola executes. Our inability to score gave them more confidence as the game went on. Credit goes to them for being more prepared. I knew with Sister Gene there we were in trouble 😄

The future is bright for Illini basketball. I think we have turned a corner thanks to this team. I live in Spokane, WA so it will be all Zags from here on out. I was so hoping to face them in the NC but there is always next year. Still a year to be proud of our team and all they accomplished. Illini fan forever.
 
#355      
I think this is a pretty good point. I was hoping the BIG tournament would be a good substitute but based on how OSU and Purdue also crapped the bed it seems to have done the opposite.
I wonder if being cooped up in a hotel in Indy had a negative impact too. Sleeping an extra week in a hotel, eating hotel food, etc
 
#356      
I wonder if being cooped up in a hotel in Indy had a negative impact too. Sleeping an extra week in a hotel, eating hotel food, etc
It will be interesting to see how teams that make it to the Final Four handle the Indy Bubble, especially if it's a Big Ten team since they've been there a week longer. In hindsight, I'm surprised they didn't compress the tournament timeline.
 
#357      
i for the life of me don't understand why they let krutwig facilitate without molestation. It's literally the same impact as when teams don't press up on our guards on the perimeter and we move the ball wherever we want. The best way to stop a passing lane is to kill it at its starting point.
 
#358      

Deleted member 747903

D
Guest
i for the life of me don't understand why they let krutwig facilitate without molestation. It's literally the same impact as when teams don't press up on our guards on the perimeter and we move the ball wherever we want. The best way to stop a passing lane is to kill it at its starting point.

Because then krutwig will blow by Kofi. They picked their poison and I'm sure they regret their choice
 
#359      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
I wonder if being cooped up in a hotel in Indy had a negative impact too. Sleeping an extra week in a hotel, eating hotel food, etc

Yes. I mean, to think this team isn't feeling the effects of the last three weeks is just insane. Not to mention the whole nutcase year. Imagine waking up every....single...day...to get tested. Then tested multiple times per day. I can speak from very serious hotel experience, even just four days on the road in the very best hotels can catch up to you. I can't imagine two weeks. Sometimes it's the bed...pillows...noise....smell....food......you really have to be adept at managing your rest and recovery.
And these guys are going flat out day after day.

None of us would have EVER predicted that run at the end of the season. These guys tore it up. They played amazing basketball and captured our hearts!
And again...just an average game from Ayo and Trent, this is a W. They must be miserable. I love them!!
 
#362      
I’m so proud of our team . we are back as a legitimate program

I feel terrible for them .
as a fan , I’m over it -
them ? they have a lifetime of second guessing over what went wrong .
it’s just too bad but life sometimes is like that
 
#363      
No excuse. Unprepared, no energy, lax. Just a few guys showed up, not the entire team.

Heck, watch Rutgers now. They came to compete. They may lose, but they are fighting. Could not say the same thing about our Illini.
 
#364      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
 
#365      
I’m so proud of our team . we are back as a legitimate program

I feel terrible for them .
as a fan , I’m over it -
them ? they have a lifetime of second guessing over what went wrong .
it’s just too bad but life sometimes is like that
What a great feeling to be relevant again. Illinois is forever indebted to this class . Ayo’s Late game heroics and Trent and Damonte’s selfless commitment to team. I’d take another team like this any year.
 
#366      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
Wow. Very astute. You should comment more often!
 
#367      
You maybe right, I just have not see many players at Illinois in my 60 years as a fan like him. Getting to the round of 32 with him feels “wasted” if he should not come back (which I have no idea if he does or not?).
We’re a fortunate fan base to witness a player who’s compared to Shaq with his pure size and dunking ability. If he does decide to move on, I won’t feel slighted
 
#368      

Deleted member 747903

D
Guest
No excuse. Unprepared, no energy, lax. Just a few guys showed up, not the entire team.

Heck, watch Rutgers now. They came to compete. They may lose, but they are fighting. Could not say the same thing about our Illini.

Lower seeds are having a field day this tourney more than previous years. Not sure why.

Perhaps being in a bubble is an equalizer.
 
#369      
I think Frazier and Damonte will be back. Damonte wants to be a coach/teacher after he's done playing pros (if he plays pros), and if he gets his masters his salary will start out pretty high in Illinois. He could come back for that. Frazier I think could come back too.

It's not unheard of. Lot of our senior football players, who most of us figured were gone, lot of them have came back. I think Ayo is for sure gone (even Underwood said he should leave).
Not according to Trent’s Dad. He is gone.
 
#371      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
Very good analysis.. A coach should always have a zone in his back pocket for times like this. The way we were defending that curl off the post was the difference in the ball game. I was completely shocked that our guards could not get by their guards. I think the officiating allowed them to bump us off the drive in the first half and we didn’t respond with any toughness.
 
#372      
Very good analysis.. A coach should always have a zone in his back pocket for times like this. The way we were defending that curl off the post was the difference in the ball game. I was completely shocked that our guards could not get by their guards. I think the officiating allowed them to bump us off the drive in the first half and we didn’t respond with any toughness.
I agree they played very physical defense and we didn’t do anything to attack. I thought we should have driven the ball right at them and created contact. My high school coach always taught that if you were being defended that closely to just drive directly off their front foot (or whichever foot if they don’t have one closer to you than the other) and create the contact to draw the foul.
 
#373      

Cook

Richmond, VA
Because then krutwig will blow by Kofi. They picked their poison and I'm sure they regret their choice
I'm beyond certain Kofi can move his feet enough to prevent a Krutwig blow by. Game plan should have been to harass him and stay up on him wherever he goes with hands up high and in his face and staying on the ground not trying to block shots no matter how many fakes, pivots, or Garza like moves he tries to make. Just because he's not going to shoot 3s or jumpers doesn't mean we can hang back so far off him and do nothing.
 
#374      
Wow. Very astute. You should comment more often!
Thank you. I should have also added that I’m very interested to see if Loyola plays a similar scheme against OkSt and how OSU attacks it. I’ve only watched OSU a few times but I suspect they will let Cunningham go one on one from the top of the floor instead of screening to prevent the trap and they also seem to give him the ball in the mid post on the wing, where he can get to the rim with one dribble or take the jumper. I would have liked us to do that with Ayo.
 
#375      
I agree they played very physical defense and we didn’t do anything to attack. I thought we should have driven the ball right at them and created contact. My high school coach always taught that if you were being defended that closely to just drive directly off their front foot (or whichever foot if they don’t have one closer to you than the other) and create the contact to draw the foul.
They did that for about five minutes in the second half and it worked. But that’s about as far as it went. I feel like one of the big things that hurt us today was that the first half was called really loosely, save for a handful of tacky fouls that got called I guess because the refs didn’t want to get their paycheck docked for being no-shows. We played like we thought we’d get called for every foul and they didn’t. Not adjusting to that was a killer, and the game was lost in the first half.
 
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