Loyola Chicago 71, Illinois 58 Postgame

Status
Not open for further replies.
#376      

JSpence

Evansville, IN
Hats off to Loyola for a great game plan. And not to beat a dead horse but, lack of adjustments killed us today.

On offense why didn’t we try running the horned set with Trent and Jake that was so effective? Have Ayo on the baseline and cut.

On defense they ran that same curl screen action and our guys just got lost in the muck. Kofi was left on an island to either pick up an unguarded layup or stick to Krutwig.

I know we don’t like to switch on screens but I don’t think it’s a secret what Loyola runs. We had time to prepare. Why not practice switching just for a plan B? Just in case your plan A doesn’t work.

Loyola is a really good team and deserved to win. But frustrated that we never countered.
Honestly, give this staff and team 2-3 days to prepare and you'd see a different result nine times out of ten.

This team did not have zone in their back pocket, and we knew that, and it was appropriate. This team was rolling freshmen into a crew of M2M specialists.

Loyola did not need to prep on offense - their look is unique and our defense was good but not special. On defense, they needed to decide whether or not to roll the dice on double teams. They did so (easy decision given the roster mismatches and our middling outside threat), just hoping for the best and getting it. We were lethargic in the AM while they executed a simple game plan that was not a real pivot for them.

We were a bit cold and frustratedly missing layups. It's WAY harder for a team to maintain a 4-point lead than an 8-point one. Those couple extra points from early bounces and Illini miscues were huge helps to Loyola's game plan.

It wasn't a perfect storm, but it wasn't far off. Very exciting validation for Loyola, and another disappointment for the beloved. Still a great season.
 
Last edited:
#377      

POWURR

From Downtown
This loss is gonna hurt for a while. I think we might have overlooked Loyola and lost a bit of the underdog mindset. We didn’t have a prayer against their relentless modus operandi.

Now I just want Loyola to have a deep run and represent Chi-town well.

Awesome Fun GIF by Tactical Baby Gear
 
#378      
Raftery called it on the broadcast. He said they have to get away from the ball screen because they were walking right into a double team. Trust me Brad is going to learn from this because teams will soon enough do this to Belo
I agree, he will have the offseason to rework the offense once we know who is staying and who is going. If a 15 seed can get to the SS, we can build a system that will get us farther.
 
#379      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
I said it earlier too but would have like to have seen the horned set too. We absolutely killed Michigan with it to the point they stole it and used it against MSU. Something different that we were familiar with and had success with in the past.
 
#380      

JSpence

Evansville, IN
It hurts right now. Trust me, I know that.

Imagine how the players and coaches feel right now. They put in so much work in a really tough season. Each one of them is probably feeling like they let one another down.

I understand the temptation to compete for the best take on who screwed up the most, or how we got screwed. I just feel bad for a team that brought me a lot of joy this season.
Yeah, to hell with that static. This team has been cooped up in hotels stuck pounding out wins on a no-time-for-prep schedule for a MONTH. Even being basketball, it's rarely so extreme as we've seen.

They have sacrificed more than we'll ever know to bring each other the joys of a historic season. The wheels came off in turn three with everyone watching. Nobody feels the rug pull more than them. If good fans ever matter, it's right now when the bad ones are primed to pounce. The candid appreciation and love for this tight-knit crew needs to be loud enough for them to hear.

What an AWESOME team - fun enough to be illegal in forty states and Puerto Rico. These guys spoiled us with enough surplus of highlight reels to make any rich dude blush. This season won't be the last for Illinois basketball, but the success can be a punctuation mark. I hope each and every one of these players makes the right decision for themselves. They need to know that they gave their fans a very special ride these last three months and owe us nothing more. They deserve their prize even if they missed the brass ring. Stay or go, these guys have earned their place as Fighting Illini.

Thank you, fellas. What a trip it was.
 
#381      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
This is worth the read. Spot on.
 
#382      

JSpence

Evansville, IN
Maybe the face injury is more severe than we know.
Hitting the like button feels wrong, but yeah, seeing him miss bunnies and hold the ball out in the wrong spot multiple times was a pretty good indication that something was amiss.

I sure didn't think of it at the time. But... it fits. Ayo has proven to have a rare temperament that doesn't let him get flustered often or for long. We didn't see him hanging his head, but he seemed distracted. He was not himself.

Side note: the coaches failed to coach Ayo back from hero ball early in the season. It stands to reason that the two sides would fail to recognize Ayo's limits and make the right decision for him today, too. The kid takes coaching well, and is coached well, but his improvement over the course of the year might have been more self-driven than we have assumed. I can only hope that the injury doesn't linger. We haven't yet seen the best that Ayo has to offer basketball.
 
#383      
Coach Moser had the Illini pegged completely, he must have watched scads of tapes on us to get his team prepped, they knew exactly what to do and they were ready. Amazing (heard that word before?) they defended the Illini as if Loyola had played us for years and years without even playing us since 2011. This loss will hurt for a long, long time.
 
#384      
The more I think about it the more I think that was one of the most abysmal coaching performances I’ve ever seen. Still can’t stomach that game.
 
#385      
“Today just wasn't our day. We tried everything in the bag. Everything that's made us one of the most efficient offensive teams today, just for whatever reason didn't work.” - Illinois head coach Brad Underwood
I didn’t know we only had one thing in our bag...
 
#386      
There is shame. I love these guys but this is awful
Enough of the talk of a team being underseeded....it's a tournament, you play who you get. Look at it conversely, if you think Loyola was underseeded, how do you think they felt to have to play a nine seed in round 1 as opposed to a say 12 or 11 .......Then come back and play a 1. They didn't !!!!! about it, they took care of business.
 
#387      

JSpence

Evansville, IN
I can't help but wonder, if the team was able to get their first taste of tourney experience LAST year, are they able to overcome the early deficit? All game it seemed they had no idea how to handle the pressure.
Maybe, but we probably don't get Ayo and all of the tutelage and other benefits that came with him. And you probably get an empty roster spot, not even an average replacement to help. Kofi may have been gone without Ayo back.

Loyola benefitted from experience, but it's not worth a second thought. Totally different timeline.
 
#388      
i for the life of me don't understand why they let krutwig facilitate without molestation. It's literally the same impact as when teams don't press up on our guards on the perimeter and we move the ball wherever we want. The best way to stop a passing lane is to kill it at its starting point.

this right here. He’s dribbling around, sometimes when our guards could’ve swiped it away.

we didn’t do that it he swiped the ball from Ayo twice on the other end. Unreal.
 
#392      
They did that for about five minutes in the second half and it worked. But that’s about as far as it went. I feel like one of the big things that hurt us today was that the first half was called really loosely, save for a handful of tacky fouls that got called I guess because the refs didn’t want to get their paycheck docked for being no-shows. We played like we thought we’d get called for every foul and they didn’t. Not adjusting to that was a killer, and the game was lost in the first half.
Well. Again I guarantee that our familiarity with a certain member or two of the officiating crew could’ve had something to do with that.
 
#393      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
This is such a painful loss. I don’t get it. Why were we so sluggish with no adjustments? I’ve only read a handful of posts. Some very good and informative. To me, we just got flat out coached and outplayed. It happens. But it really sucks. I’m trying hard not to overreact but the season went from on pace for an A/A+ down to a C. You just can’t have this good of a team not make it out of the first weekend. We were the 2nd favorite to win it all. That outcome is unacceptable. Loyola played great and are clearly closer to their kenpom and poll rankings than their seed number but still. Today was brutal.
 
#394      

lstewart53x3

Scottsdale, Arizona
One thing I thought about today:

There’s, of course, a lot of factors that go into mid-major teams having the ability to upset a major team in the tourney, but one that stands out to me is:

Scouting.

Because major team’s get much more exposure throughout the year, mid-major teams are able to scout all year long.

For example, I imagine Moser of Loyola, watched many of our games throughout the year than Underwood watched of theirs.

That doesn’t excuse our poor performance & coaching today. But I assume mid major teams are better able to scout throughout the year than major teams are.
 
#395      

POWURR

From Downtown
One thing I thought about today:

There’s, of course, a lot of factors that go into mid-major teams having the ability to upset a major team in the tourney, but one that stands out to me is:

Scouting.

Because major team’s get much more exposure throughout the year, mid-major teams are able to scout all year long.

For example, I imagine Moser of Loyola, watched many of our games throughout the year than Underwood watched of theirs.

That doesn’t excuse our poor performance & coaching today. But I assume mid major teams are better able to scout throughout the year than major teams are.
SPOT ON. This comes to mind.

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." - Sun Tzu

200.gif
 
#396      
Most of what should be said has already been said here, but just thought I would add that this game worried me since they announced the brackets. I'm sure Moser began studying us within minutes of that. If our staff prepped for LUC anywhere near as much, it certainly didn't show. That was my main takeaway from the game. They were supremely prepared for us (and executed on that planning to perfection) and we looked like we had no idea what to expect. Any specific game plan we had for this matchup surely didn't show itself and/or was very poorly executed.

Much has already been made of the lack of any real adjustments made, and I can only hope that BU learns a valuable lesson from this game, moving forward. I want to be as optimistic as others have been in this thread about the future being bright. I just feel like a huge opportunity was missed here. The freshness of that wound - and the scars of the past - have me struggling to find the silver linings right now, other than the memories of an otherwise great season. I'm ready for that to no longer be the quintessential experience of the Illinois basketball fan (as I know we all are). Of course, only time will tell what comes next.
 
#397      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
Most of what should be said has already been said here, but just thought I would add that this game worried me since they announced the brackets. I'm sure Moser began studying us within minutes of that. If our staff prepped for LUC anywhere near as much, it certainly didn't show. That was my main takeaway from the game. They were supremely prepared for us (and executed on that planning to perfection) and we looked like we had no idea what to expect. Any specific game plan we had for this matchup surely didn't show itself and/or was very poorly executed.

Much has already been made of the lack of any real adjustments made, and I can only hope that BU learns a valuable lesson from this game, moving forward. I want to be as optimistic as others have been in this thread about the future being bright. I just feel like a huge opportunity was missed here. The freshness of that wound - and the scars of the past - have me struggling to find the silver linings right now, other than the memories of an otherwise great season. I'm ready for that to no longer be the quintessential experience of the Illinois basketball fan (as I know we all are). Of course, only time will tell what comes next.
Completely with you on how prepared Loyola looked and unprepared we looked. I wonder how the prep for the 2nd game works. You would think that if any team was going to prep for the 2nd round early, it would be the 1 seed as usually just showing up wins you your round 1 game. I know the illinimbb Twitter posted a video of a weight lifting workout on Saturday. Really hope they did some actual prep/scout work too.
 
#399      

Deleted member 747671

D
Guest
This one was so hard because it wasn’t like a flukey upset. Loyola took it to us from the start. Dominated the entire game on both ends of the court. Nobody on their roster could sniff a scholarship from us but they outplayed us at practically every position. It’s just impossible to make sense out of it. I can’t believe we didn’t make a legitimate comeback in the 2nd half. Like we barely even threatened, let alone take the momentum. Loyola made us do exactly what they wanted us to do and then did to us exactly what they wanted. We never had any control on anything. I just can’t comprehend it. Why did we never push the pace? Why did we never change anything on defense? Pick up full court, zone, switch screens,..... we literally never changed anything. We just sat there and took it. We seemed so motivated and focused the last month, and then it all ends like this?
 
#400      

POWURR

From Downtown
This one was so hard because it wasn’t like a flukey upset. Loyola took it to us from the start. Dominated the entire game on both ends of the court. Nobody on their roster could sniff a scholarship from us but they outplayed us at practically every position. It’s just impossible to make sense out of it. I can’t believe we didn’t make a legitimate comeback in the 2nd half. Like we barely even threatened, let alone take the momentum. Loyola made us do exactly what they wanted us to do and then did to us exactly what they wanted. We never had any control on anything. I just can’t comprehend it. Why did we never push the pace? Why did we never change anything on defense? Pick up full court, zone, switch screens,..... we literally never changed anything. We just sat there and took it. We seemed so motivated and focused the last month, and then it all ends like this?
In other words we’re powerless against a 101-year old chaplain’s simple prayer. 🙏🏻

Sister Jean
 
Status
Not open for further replies.