Loyola Chicago 71, Illinois 58 Postgame

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#401      
For as much as Krutwig has been discussed as a transfer option I’m not being facetious... did Porter moser make himself that money, or has krutwig made it for him?

I think it’s a fair question. Prior to Krutwigs arrival 5th was the highest his team had ever made in conference standing, and he averaged 8th across 13 seasons.

Then beginning with Krutwigs freshman year it’s 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. Is that just coincidence?
 
#402      

pruman91

Paducah, Ky
Just grieving... Hope we don’t need another 16 years to reach the pinnacle. Soldier on.

sad jeanne moreau GIF
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" words can't express the emptiness I feel right now "
 
#404      
How many ncaa tournament games had any of our players played in prior to this year? I think the answer is 0. Now we have a number of players who have experienced the "madness." It sucks to have lost, but all this doomsday talk of "underwood can't coach" "Illinois is cursed" "our players can't play"... Come on. Really? Where were we just 2 short seasons ago? This was such a fun year of basketball - in terrible circumstances. We got beat and we're all disappointed. It's not the end though. ILL
 
#405      
This one was so hard because it wasn’t like a flukey upset. Loyola took it to us from the start. Dominated the entire game on both ends of the court. Nobody on their roster could sniff a scholarship from us but they outplayed us at practically every position. It’s just impossible to make sense out of it. I can’t believe we didn’t make a legitimate comeback in the 2nd half. Like we barely even threatened, let alone take the momentum. Loyola made us do exactly what they wanted us to do and then did to us exactly what they wanted. We never had any control on anything. I just can’t comprehend it. Why did we never push the pace? Why did we never change anything on defense? Pick up full court, zone, switch screens,..... we literally never changed anything. We just sat there and took it. We seemed so motivated and focused the last month, and then it all ends like this?

1) Underwood was outcoached in this one. No answer for the Loyola offense
2) The Loyola defense took the game from us, and we never got it back.
12
– Number of Loyola steals.
17 – Number of Illinois turnovers, one short of the most the Illini have committed this season.
4 Blocked shots
11 Total points AO and TF
 
#406      

Deleted member 747903

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At the end of the day loyola's two best players played in the final four previously. That's invaluable experience that trickles down to others on the roster.
 
#407      
For as much as Krutwig has been discussed as a transfer option I’m not being facetious... did Porter moser make himself that money, or has krutwig made it for him?

I think it’s a fair question. Prior to Krutwigs arrival 5th was the highest his team had ever made in conference standing, and he averaged 8th across 13 seasons.

Then beginning with Krutwigs freshman year it’s 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. Is that just coincidence?
Great, great point. Krutwig has a rare skill set to run those point center sets to perfection. Even if you slide Giorgi, who is a great passer, in his place I’m not sure they are half as good.
 
#408      

Central IL Illini

Springfield, IL
The whole game just had a general feeling of we had no idea what to expect, and they had been studying us for a year. It was as if 5 minutes before tip off, we found out who the opponent was. The Ayo and Frazier games surely didn’t help, but Brad definitely took one on the chin here.

I think the B10 bubble effect was real. Hindsight 20/20 but maybe they should’ve came home for a few days after the B10 tourney, especially being that campus is only a few hours away.


That being said program is still in a great place. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we are a scrappy 5/6 seed next year, and win a couple tourney games.
 
#409      
I went to the game and it was more awful in person. So lifeless. In-game adjustments were non-existent.

In the presser, did Underwood say, "we didn't expect them to trap on the high ball screen" immediately followed by "they've been doing it all year"?
 
#411      

Deleted member 747671

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This was the kind of game that Underwood would get absolutely destroyed if it was a regular season game. He never adjusted on either end of the court. Unfathomable to not at least TRY something different. I still can't believe it. This loss is going to stick to him far worse and far longer than it will to the team or any players.

It hurts even more to look around at the rest of the tournament, especially our region. Everyone would have killed for a final 4 path of Loyola, Oregon State, and either Houston or Syracuse. Are you kidding me? Man this is painful. The 2 teams I was most worried about were Ok. State and WVU and both are gone. Granted Loyola was 3rd on the list, but still. I don't get it. None of this makes any sense. They trapped the high ball screen ALL GAME and we continued to run it ALL GAME. They ran their offense through Krutwig and/or with a series of screens for their wings ALL GAME, and we defended it the same way ALL GAME. What the hell was going on?
 
#412      
Used to have an account here and have lurked for 10 or so years now. My thoughts...

Ayo was clearly not himself and had no energy. He got beat backdoor on the same play twice in the first half. He will have to put in more effort to stay in the game at the next level, maybe he can if he’s not shouldering as much of an offensive load. Perhaps his lack of intensity was contagious, although I thought our gameplan on defense was the real issue with no ball pressure. Thanks to Ayo for bringing us back to relevancy.

To me, this one is on the coaches. Poor game plan defensively and poor (zero) adjustments throughout the game. On the other hand, Loyola’s coaches had a perfect gameplan and clearly scouted us for weaknesses and exposed them. The games that Ayo has struggled this year have all been when teams jump the ball screen and trap. Ayo then seems to pick up the dribble and has a hard time finding the open man. They also studied our defense and realized that Kofi never comes out of the paint or applies any pressure on the ball. Obviously, having him in the paint to defend the basket is ideal, but Loyola took full advantage by using the area around the free throw line and top of the key to set up Krutwig and run cutters off of him. Because of the scheme of sitting Kofi in the paint, we always chase the ball handler over the top of the screen, to try to prevent the three and funnel the ball to the basket. Loyola’s strategy was to run the guy that would eventually get the ball off of and off ball screen and then Krutwig, which meant we would consistently lose contact and the guy would be getting the handoff and needing only one dribble to get to the hoop. Kofi then has a 2 on 1 to defend way too often.

This should be a good lesson to develop a zone defense and play it every once in a while so you can go to it if you need, because this offense certainly wouldn’t work against a zone.

My issue with Underwood and staff has always been that they are slow to adjust. 5 B1G games into Underwood’s first season, it was obvious that the over-aggressive style of defense was not going to work and we were just allowing backdoors and resulting layups or open threes way too consistently. It took a full two seasons before the change was finally made. Underwood now gets all sorts of credit for changing defensive schemes, but it never should have taken so long. Another example is being very set in his ways with rotations and matchups. Although we are limited somewhat at the PF position and he did make Grandison the starter (good move), we still play small vs teams more often than I would like. Maybe it’s roster construction, but it’s something I hope we don’t continue if we have serviceable and non undersized PFs. Finally, BU seems to have decided that Ayo-TF-Curbelo-DMW-Kofi is his closing lineup, rather than going with who’s playing well. Miller scored a couple buckets to keep us close and then gets taken out of the game (as usual) with 4 minutes to go to put in Trent. Miller was impacting the game more and should have been kept in, although it probably doesn’t change the outcome.

So, I hope that this is a lesson for the staff to have counters to the game plan. If the other team is trapping the pick and roll and we are struggling with it, let a player of Ayo’s caliber go one on one. Or, something that would have worked that we never tried was to drive towards the wing defender and cut backdoor with the guy the wing was defending. Every time that we did drive the wing defender would stop the penetration, but the separation to the shooter that would get the ball was not much and they could close out. If we would have cut when they came up to stop penetration, we get some easy backdoor layups. Or just run straight post ups Kofi more and teach him how to pass to the open man when he’s doubled.

Defensively I already stated that we should have tried zone, but we also should have adjusted to the screens and not followed shooters but instead ran underneath (run underneath to give up a 2 point jump shot instead of a layup, whereas our standard scheme is to trail to prevent the 3 and force a 2 point jumper or a Kofi contest at the rim). Very disappointing when these things were very apparent to many of us in the first half and we are too set in our ways to change scheme in the second half at all on either end.
Good summary..one observation from me is that we don't play zone well at all.
 
#413      
I went to the game and it was more awful in person. So lifeless. In-game adjustments were non-existent.

In the presser, did Underwood say, "we didn't expect them to trap on the high ball screen" immediately followed by "they've been doing it all year"?
Moser was playing chess today. How about when he threw a press on with Damonte inbounding (I think) and Monte throwing it away since we were totally unprepared. Moser should be at the top of all the high paying jobs (Indiana) out there. Guy wins wherever he coaches.
 
#414      

Deleted member 747671

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For as much as Krutwig has been discussed as a transfer option I’m not being facetious... did Porter moser make himself that money, or has krutwig made it for him?

I think it’s a fair question. Prior to Krutwigs arrival 5th was the highest his team had ever made in conference standing, and he averaged 8th across 13 seasons.

Then beginning with Krutwigs freshman year it’s 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. Is that just coincidence?
That's a good point, but I kind of hate saying that about a coach because bringing in the right guys is a huge aspect to coaching. You can probably find similar instances with a lot of coaches. I mean, you can kind of say it about Underwood at Illinois, and to me it's not Ayo, but Kofi. Getting Kofi basically forced Underwood to change his defensive philosophy and also adjust his offense. If we never landed Kofi, are we still the frenetic inconsistent team we saw in the first couple years? I'm sure Ayo would still be a star and that we'd make the tournament this year, but I doubt it would be anything higher than like a 4 or 5 seed.
 
#415      
I'm still in the sadness phase of my grief. This was a brutal game to watch and a tough way to end a season. I can't even get myself to watch the post-game interviews or listen to any of the podcasts right now because it was such a tough pill to swallow. But here are a couple of things I am taking away as positives for next year:
1) Freshmen have fight. They literally seemed like they were the only ones with a pulse out there. Both Ace and Curbelo were fighting out there and while Belo frustrated me from those turnovers and silly fouls...at least it seemed like he was fighting
2) Team got tournament experience. Now next year hopefully the lights won't be as bright or the nerves not so raw.
3) The taste is going to linger for a while. The chip is larger now and unlikely to be forgotten anytime soon..or ever to be honest. If anyone knows how to maximize a chip, it's BU. But only success at the tournament can wipe it out and hopefully that will fuel this team next year...sigh...but it's a whole 'nother year to wait! Ugh...

I thought writing positives would move me forward at least a little....nah, still sad...
 
#417      
For as much as Krutwig has been discussed as a transfer option I’m not being facetious... did Porter moser make himself that money, or has krutwig made it for him?

I think it’s a fair question. Prior to Krutwigs arrival 5th was the highest his team had ever made in conference standing, and he averaged 8th across 13 seasons.

Then beginning with Krutwigs freshman year it’s 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st. Is that just coincidence?

Coaches need players, and players need coaches. Krutwig is a really good player, and Moser is putting him in a position to succeed.
 
#418      

Deleted member 747671

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I'm trying so hard to get past this loss. I keep trying to put it into words. Bottom line is that this is not the way anyone expected our season to end. Nobody was ready for us to just completely lay an egg. There was so little fight. We looked completely out of sorts. Any loss is painful, but you can make sense of many of the other possible outcomes just in our region:
1. Cade Cunningham outduels Ayo, leading Ok. State over Illinois.
2. WVU pushes the pace and gets hot, and we just can't keep pace at the end.
3. Houston is a good team and it's a well-fought game but Ayo's last 2 shots rim out and Houston holds on.
4. Loyola keeps pace with us due to some timely 3 point shooting, Kofi gets in foul trouble and we can't pull ahead enough so Loyola wins at the end.

All would've been painful, but you could at least understand those. This just makes no sense.
 
#419      
This was the kind of game that Underwood would get absolutely destroyed if it was a regular season game. He never adjusted on either end of the court. Unfathomable to not at least TRY something different. I still can't believe it. This loss is going to stick to him far worse and far longer than it will to the team or any players.

It hurts even more to look around at the rest of the tournament, especially our region. Everyone would have killed for a final 4 path of Loyola, Oregon State, and either Houston or Syracuse. Are you kidding me? Man this is painful. The 2 teams I was most worried about were Ok. State and WVU and both are gone. Granted Loyola was 3rd on the list, but still. I don't get it. None of this makes any sense. They trapped the high ball screen ALL GAME and we continued to run it ALL GAME. They ran their offense through Krutwig and/or with a series of screens for their wings ALL GAME, and we defended it the same way ALL GAME. What the hell was going on?
Right there with you.
 
#420      

Deleted member 186590

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This one was so hard because it wasn’t like a flukey upset. Loyola took it to us from the start. Dominated the entire game on both ends of the court. Nobody on their roster could sniff a scholarship from us but they outplayed us at practically every position. It’s just impossible to make sense out of it. I can’t believe we didn’t make a legitimate comeback in the 2nd half. Like we barely even threatened, let alone take the momentum. Loyola made us do exactly what they wanted us to do and then did to us exactly what they wanted. We never had any control on anything. I just can’t comprehend it. Why did we never push the pace? Why did we never change anything on defense? Pick up full court, zone, switch screens,..... we literally never changed anything. We just sat there and took it. We seemed so motivated and focused the last month, and then it all ends like this?
Well said - I think we're all still struggling with this -it's inconceivable. I didn't recognize our team - we never made a run or really had the ability to stop them - in fairness the players played with passion (Kofi, Curbelo and Miller come to mind) and the players were clearly trying to win. But if you are clearly being out-schemed, it doesn't matter how much passion you have. Even with 5 min to go when we were down 13 and given they would hold the ball for 30 seconds each possession, there wasn't going to be enough time/possessions to be able to come back, we didn't press or try to change the game - we just let them run their stuff.

I don't think we'll ever know the "why", it will never make sense, it's indefensible, inconceivable and heart breaking

We just have to accept it and move on
 
#422      
Thank you. I should have also added that I’m very interested to see if Loyola plays a similar scheme against OkSt and how OSU attacks it. I’ve only watched OSU a few times but I suspect they will let Cunningham go one on one from the top of the floor instead of screening to prevent the trap and they also seem to give him the ball in the mid post on the wing, where he can get to the rim with one dribble or take the jumper. I would have liked us to do that with Ayo.
We’ll never know how OK St attacks it cuz my Oregon St team finally showed who is the real THE OSU. But to be fair, though I did pick the win over Tenn, I didn’t think they’d beat Ok St.
 
#423      
I woke up this morning hoping yesterday was just a bad nightmare. It’s so frustrating that not only are we not going to see this group of guys play together again, but we have to wait until November to watch Illinois basketball. 😞
 
#424      
Give all credit to Loyola. They beat Illinois at both ends of the court. That is a bitter pill to swallow.
 
#425      

MDchicago

Lake Norman NC
Give all credit to Loyola. They beat Illinois at both ends of the court. That is a bitter pill to swallow.

It sure is. Less sadness and more the wistfulness/emptiness of missed opportunity for me. Dating myself, but reminds me of the feeling I had during the drive back from Ohio in 1988 after blowing the late lead vs Villanova in the second round, knowing that the team was capable of going much further. Hopefully the staff can continue to build the program so that the opportunities for deep runs become more regular, but certainly appreciate that Kofi's and Ayo's don't come around (and develop as hoped) with great frequency.
 
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