Mark Smith transferring from Illinois

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#126      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
Smith was given ample opportunity to thrive here. The fit thing is mostly a rationalization. Simply put, his play was underwhelming to poor, the vast majority of the time. He needs to improve a lot of things to become an impact high major player. Would have preferred him to stay ('cause I think he'll get there), but, from a team perspective, don't see this as a big deal.
 
#127      

Deleted member 8632

D
Guest
I can't think of one consistently successful coach now that coaches that way.

Ever watched Izzo??? He will light players up on the sidelines. Pretty sure he's had a fair amount of success.
 
#128      

Whitmans Sampler

Eastern Iowa
IMO Mark was never going to be good at Underwood’s style of defense, and I’d guess he probably hated playing it. Doesn’t have the length, quickness, or awareness. But best of luck wherever he goes.
 
#129      
I find it interesting that he plans to stay enrolled in school but has moved off campus. Didn't want him to poison DMW??:)
 
#130      
I wish MS the best in whatever he decides to do. When he committed to the Illini it was a nice get for the program. It would be better for the program if MS had stayed at Illinois, but probably not good for him and his overall welfare is obviously what's important to him and his family.

We can sugar coat this deal all we want but the cold hard truth is when you lose a kid as highly touted and regarded as MS it reflects very badly on the HC and the program whether it's deserved or not. How far backward it sets the rebuilding process is hard to say at this point but the fact of the matter is it's a negative hit and the program isn't in position to take many more negative hit's.
 
#131      
A 6'4" kid with his breadth at Edwardsville High can bully a lot of opponents (in the physical, not the cruel, way). Not so much in college and definitely not in the Big Ten.

If he sticks with hoops, hopefully, he uses the time off to work on his defensive fundamentals and the offensive tools a player his height needs.

I couldn't see him making enough of a leap to where he'd be a major contributor next year. And if that's not the case, it's best to wish him well rather than keeping your program in a years-long state of pregnancy waiting for him to live up to his recruiting rep.
 
#132      
Really Now

How many of you selling the idea that it is appropriate to embarrass a student athlete because he is not performing well, 1) Ever played D1 sports and was coached like that in front of thousands of spectators and 2) have raised children with that same mindset. Probably none! Trust me it's not a sign of weakness to not thrive under that "Style" everyone's personality is different so he might have to recruit players not only to fit his system but also his coaching style!!
 
#133      
You were watching different games, or even an entirely different sport, than I was. The kid was a raw, talented freshman. He still has a very high ceiling.

Smith can play at the B1G level, just not up to the expectation he perhaps placed on himself, the title Mr. Basketball and Gatorade Player of the year in Illinois unfortunately automatically places on you, or the level of which we as fans anointed him and placed upon him, or the level of pressure that came with trying to revive a program we all hold dear as he obviously did and probably still does.

That is a lot of expectations to live up too. He came, he tried, he did the best I am sure that he could. He will be fine moving forward and may even excel somewhere now that the pressures will be lessened.:chief:
 
#134      
A 6'4" kid with his breadth at Edwardsville High can bully a lot of opponents (in the physical, not the cruel, way). Not so much in college and definitely not in the Big Ten.

If he sticks with hoops, hopefully, he uses the time off to work on his defensive fundamentals and the offensive tools a player his height needs.

I couldn't see him making enough of a leap to where he'd be a major contributor next year. And if that's not the case, it's best to wish him well rather than keeping your program in a years-long state of pregnancy waiting for him to live up to his recruiting rep.

Mark would have probably always been at least the #4 guard moving forward, even though he got the opportunity with game time (20) minutes to be the #2 this past year.
 
#135      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
How many of you selling the idea that it is appropriate to embarrass a student athlete because he is not performing well, 1) Ever played D1 sports and was coached like that in front of thousands of spectators and 2) have raised children with that same mindset. Probably none! Trust me it's not a sign of weakness to not thrive under that "Style" everyone's personality is different so he might have to recruit players not only to fit his system but also his coaching style!!
Who got embarrassed? I don't recall BU embarrassing a kid ever.
 
#136      
Two quite different things. DO NO BERATE YOUR PLAYERS during a game and on television. Sure, show some anger, but please don't embarrass your players. I've seen, as we've all seen, Underwood yelling at Kipper and Kipper turning his back on Underwood. The time for that sort of thing is at practice when you can teach. Game-time ain't no time for yelling and screaming.

The coach of the #2 overall record in the B1G 12 might disagree with the last point you made...Press Virginia!

Agreed though that embarrassing the players usually will not bode well. :chief:
 
#137      
This is a win-win move. Good for Mark Smith and good for UofI. Wishing all the best to MS moving forward. Should be an interesting, and hopefully positive, spring for us.
 
#138      
He’s very special, Underwood said. Physically, he looks the part of a 20-22 year old at 6-4, 220. It’s unfair for me to do it but I compare him to Jason Kidd; he has that type of athleticism. And his natural instincts are to lead. Once the game slows down and he understands what he wants to do, he will be a fantastic leader. He’s a guy you will see play all over the court. He will be a tough matchup because of that body.”

I have to be really careful when I talk about Mark,” Underwood said. “I’ve said this privately and now I’ll say it publicly. In my 30 years as a college basketball coach, from the day that young man arrived on campus to this day right now, I’ve never seen a young man improve more than he has...He spends a ton of time on film. He lives and dies basketball and his commitment level is what has impressed me most.”

He’s a future point guard. There’s no question about that,” Underwood said. “He’s got so much to offer not just in terms of his physical traits, but he’s such a great teammate and he’s an unselfish player. His athleticism at that position, his size at that position, he’s going to be a challenge for a lot of people. “He can play a lot of places, but most importantly, he’s a point guard. It’s going to be fun to watch him play with the ball in his hands.”




Mark Smith was a Brad Underwood recruit and Illinois Mr. Basketball. I am surprised that a "Brad Underwood guy" is the first to transfer out of his program.

No positive way to spin his transfer.
Good luck Mark Smith.

These look to be tailor-made statements solely for Smith's parents ears.
 
#139      

spike49

New Mexico
The coach of the #2 overall record in the B1G 12 might disagree with the last point you made...Press Virginia!

Agreed though that embarrassing the players usually will not bode well. :chief:

Several posts have addressed this issue in various manners, so I will
be very direct. I am 68 and have managed people since I was 22. I have seen many changes in management theories and have seen as many changes in expectations among employees over the generations.
My personal opinion is that the days of berating subordinates in any environment - public or private- is not longer politically correct.
Now, does that mean it is no longer effective? It depends, but I think the trend or glide path is pretty clear. If the options are to go with a successful program where collegiality is the focus or one equally successful where haranguing is the norm, which would you choose for your son or daughter?
 
#140      
Leave the volume alone. If they are too weak to handle it, they are too weak to handle it. Life is not all sunshine and rainbows.

There are levels between 'sunshine and rainbows' and 'sideline ranting'. All coaches get angry on the sideline but most have more than one modus operandi.
 
#142      
I feel badly for Smith and how poorly his season went, but you don't have to be more than a casual fan to see that he does not appear to have the tools to play well at this level. It is kind of interesting to see that after the season ended, a lot of people posted how encouraged they are about the future of the program, and some listed the expected improvement of Smith going forward as one of the reasons to be optimistic. And now today an equal number posting how this transfer doesn't matter since Smith couldn't play. Wonder what will happen...

I think Smith definitely has the tools to be successful. He's a good athlete, he can shoot, and he can handle the ball. But he wasn't able to show any of that stuff off because he doesn't know how to play yet. His IQ was arguably the lowest on the team. He got beat defensively all year, he didn't know how to get guys off balance to get to the rim, and he didn't know how to rebound. He's capable of all those things but it's tough to show off skills when your head is a jumbled mess.

And this isn't a knock on Mark by any means. He focused on baseball for much of his life. This was expected. At the beginning of the season BU's exact words were "Mark just needs to learn how to play the game", after raving about him having all the tools. We have a coach, an AD, and a fanbase that is demanding to get back to the top of the B1G. It's a tough environment to learn in. Hopefully he can relax at a smaller program and we will see him leading a mid-major to the big dance in a few years.
 
#143      

ChazzReinhold

Mom! The Meatloaf!
I watched every game this year and did not bear witness to all this berating occurring on the sidelines. I saw him trying to fire up the team and have them play with more emotion, which is required to perform your best in a sport, and completely different than managing Peter in the cubicle to get his TPS reports done.
 
#144      
Several posts have addressed this issue in various manners, so I will
be very direct. I am 68 and have managed people since I was 22. I have seen many changes in management theories and have seen as many changes in expectations among employees over the generations.
My personal opinion is that the days of berating subordinates in any environment - public or private- is not longer politically correct.
Now, does that mean it is no longer effective? It depends, but I think the trend or glide path is pretty clear. If the options are to go with a successful program where collegiality is the focus or one equally successful where haranguing is the norm, which would you choose for your son or daughter?

I am not retirement age, but am older and have managed many for years as well. I treat others the way I want to be treated, but as the boss and with expectations they get that as well. Fair is fair, it is not one sided and whip cream and strawberries all the time.

I responded pretty well to the military and non political correct actions and now stand on my own two feet for myself, own my own company treat others with respect and don't get offended when some one else has an opinion that I don't agree with.

I would choose the path I took because I would teach my son/daughter to grow up, be responsible for their decisions and actions, just as I have already. Life is not where society is today, it's just the opposite for most. Hard, tough to figure out, and misguided without the foundation given to you while young. I will take BU coaching any kid over Groce or another coach of his ilk.:chief:
 
#145      
I watched every game this year and did not bear witness to all this berating occurring on the sidelines. I saw him trying to fire up the team and have them play with more emotion, which is required to perform your best in a sport, and completely different than managing Peter in the cubicle to get his TPS reports done.

Yea about that...I'm gonna need you to post on Saturday...might as well plan on Sunday also, and I am gonna need to read those first thing on Monday morning...:chief:
 
#146      
I do find it funny that some of the same posters who want a "culture change" and think we need "winners" are also calling this a "black mark" for BU and the program. Can't have it both ways, unfortunately. Buy in or pack it up.
 
#147      

ratdawg

ratdawg
Harrisburg Ilinois
Well this stinks. My best guess is if siu keeps hinson on as coach that's a possible landing spot. Watching Smith's high school tapes his coaches gameplan was to clear out and let mark go one on one. Knowing hinsons previous coaching this will be a perfect pairing.
 
#148      

Rad

Nashville, TN
Who got embarrassed? I don't recall BU embarrassing a kid ever.

It wasn't so much that he was specifically did or was trying to embarrass an individual player but more that he was openly embarrassed by their play. Yes, we often made foolish plays or missed assignments (should not surprise BU at this point and at least partly on him - our attack defense lends itself to being out of position at times) but other times Iowa made a good play and he gave same reaction. Not trying to pile on our coach but IMO it was overboard.
 
#149      

Illiniaaron

Geneseo, IL
I do find it funny that some of the same posters who want a "culture change" and think we need "winners" are also calling this a "black mark" for BU and the program. Can't have it both ways, unfortunately. Buy in or pack it up.
Smith was supposed to be part of the culture change.
 
#150      
Last thoughts, and then I'll let it go.

Thanks Mark for wanting to be an Illini.

Work on that shot - no system needs a wild shooter.

Wasn't Groce in on his recruitment to Illinois?

Schools for MS - a lot of them. Mid-majors at this point, and that's no disgrace. MVC, Bradley, Loyola? MAC? A ton would take him.

Illinois doesn't need a project; got to have performers even if they're freshmen.

Big hope: Leron stays, Coach U successful in landing what he needs. Gotta have Leron at this stage.

Groce was my first thought in terms of, am sure he will be contacting MS asap.
Honestly really thought MS would have toughed it out here. Did not quite buy in to the praise Underwood gave him, but thought maybe Smith was different in practice.
Sitting out for a year is going to smack hard next fall when everyone else is on the court. The reference to Lavar Ball type parenting may have more to do with all of this than MS not fitting the system?

Regardless, good luck to Mark Smith in the future.
 
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