Maryland 84, Illinois 59 POSTGAME

GameOfThrows · Dec 28, 2016

It's a long shot but a line-up change and limiting minutes for JCL and Tate would do wonders for the team.

Lucas >> Tate
Abrams >> Coleman-Lands and Jordan
Hill >> DJ and Kipper
Black > Finke
Morgan >> Thorne

Change the starters to above and play Lucas, Abrams and Hill 30+ minutes/game, we'll be able to compete against most BIG teams (Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana notwithstanding) This line-up might be able to get to 10 wins if they can get hot after the first half BIG schedule gauntlet and reel off some successive wins in the last 10 games of the season.

It's a long shot, but about the only shot.

Calvin · Dec 28, 2016

hermie1985 said:
I really feel we under appreciated Lou at the time.

Easier with each year we miss the dance.

illini8507 · Dec 28, 2016

Higher Ground said:
This lineup would be our most productive but I just don't see a coach that starts Tate in our first conference road game grasping this concept even remotely.

I think Abrams started but got a quick foul and went to the bench before the nw/psu game was over. Don't hold me to that though

WesterveltVictoryCigar · Dec 28, 2016

illini8507 said:
I think Abrams started but got a quick foul and went to the bench before the nw/psu game was over. Don't hold me to that though

I think you're right, but it's also kind of senseless, IMO. Was Groce thinking Tracy was going to foul out again?

GameOfThrows · Dec 28, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
I think you're right, but it's also kind of senseless, IMO. Was Groce thinking Tracy was going to foul out again?

Abrams was on pace to foul out after 2 minutes! Groce's best coaching move of the game!

Bear8287 · Dec 28, 2016

WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
I think you're right, but it's also kind of senseless, IMO. Was Groce thinking Tracy was going to foul out again?

Abrams listed as a starter here.

Abrams foul at 19:10 and subbed out for Tate at 18:43 (under Play-by-Play tab).

RichBradIllini · Dec 28, 2016

Chief86 said:
More Lucas. More Williams. More Jordan. More Nichols. This reminds me of when Ekey was getting more time than Hill simply because one was a senior and one was a freshman.

Finally Groce started playing Nunn and Hill, but it was too late into the season and they ended up in the NIT.

GameOfThrows said:
It's a long shot but a line-up change and limiting minutes for JCL and Tate would do wonders for the team.

Lucas >> Tate
Abrams >> Coleman-Lands and Jordan
Hill >> DJ and Kipper
Black > Finke
Morgan >> Thorne

Change the starters to above and play Lucas, Abrams and Hill 30+ minutes/game, we'll be able to compete against most BIG teams (Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana notwithstanding) This line-up might be able to get to 10 wins if they can get hot after the first half BIG schedule gauntlet and reel off some successive wins in the last 10 games of the season.

It's a long shot, but about the only shot.

Tevo said:
Maryland was missing two big men and started three freshman against the most experienced team in the Big Ten. No problem, because they knew from game film that we (a) can stop penetration, (b) have no interior defense, (c) can't feed the post and (d) rely too much on threes. Knowing those things makes for a pretty easy game plan, especially when you have multiple players who can both drive and shoot.

Meanwhile, we knew they would be lacking two big men and be starting inexperienced players. We, however, had very few post feeds, and were unable to pressure their guards because of our aforementioned lack of perimeter defense.

Our roster is full of players with a single skill: rebounding OR shooting OR dribbling OR defense (wait, scratch that last one, nobody is good at that). Meanwhile, the teams we face have players with multiple skills -- dribble AND shooting, rebounding AND defense, etc. And they combine that with game plans to maximize their skills, and hide their deficiencies. Lacking big men on defense? Double the ball in the post and make our bigs pass out. Oh, wait, our bigs can't do that. Lacking big men to feed on offense? Run pick-and-roll all day, or just run right past our guards for layup after layup.

This loss was not on Tate or on our shooting or on our interior defense. This was a program loss, starting with recruiting that missed on multi-skilled prospects and instead filled the roster with role-players, continuing with a lack of player and skill development over several years, and concluding up with ineffective game planning and poor in-game coaching and adjustments.

I'm not even angry as I type this. We've been seeing this for years now. And we'll see more of it for the next few months, at least. There is no fix by putting in Lucas, or AJ or Kipper. There is no fix by switching to more zone. The only fix is from changing the program and starting over. Again.

This^^^^^^^^

alexander58 · Dec 28, 2016

uinuke81 said:
This is what happens when you play a weak non-conference schedule prior to the B1G. We play 0 games on the road against worthy opponenents. All of our games were either at home or neutral sites. These guys clearly can't play defense and they were rattled from the opening tip. I am tired of getting waxed, particularly on the the road and it is clear these guys weren't prepared to play a decent (not great) opponent on the road with a fired up crowd. It is great to pad the schedule with non-conference patsies at home but does little to prepare them for conference play. I had my problems with Weber but at least his guys usually played decent D. There is no excuse for not playing good defense even when the offense is struggling.

Valid point. Playing home games versus D2 schools doesn't prepare you for the big ten.

PostersLastStand · Dec 28, 2016

Bear8287 said:
If you think it doesn't matter to the NCAA selection committee whether the Illini lost to Maryland by 3 or by 25, you are kidding yourself.

You could've just left it at, "We need to figure out how to compete..."

Getting blown off the court and losing by 25 points is not competing. The Illini were actually down by 31 with 7 minutes to go before hitting a couple of 3 point bombs to cut the lead.

If you're playing a team that you're expected to *compete* against, there's no good reason to ever be down by 31 points. If this just happened to be a "fluke" well then maybe you just chalk it up to a "bad night". The Illini have had 7 *really* bad nights in 2016. This is not a fluke... it's a trend.

The previous time that the Illini played Maryland, the game was at Maryland with the students on campus, Maryland was ranked #14 and the Illini were banged up with injured players in street clothes. The Illini lost 55-81.

This time, it was the Illini with the more experienced team, students not in classes and Maryland with two injured players sitting on the bench. The result is that the Illini lost 59-84. Bravo, the Illini managed to lose only by 25 instead of 26 points.

A common factor between the two games? Same coaching staffs for both teams for both games.

First true road game for the Illini this season. You think that the players would be feeling the same if the game came down to a last possession shot?

Seeing as this is the second time this season that they've gone to the East Coast and gotten whipped, where do you think their confidence is now going into the rest of the B1G schedule? You really think that more pep talk from Captain "TnT" will pull them out of this funk? Sure hope so...

Last game of the B1G regular season is at Piscataway... (Everyone has this one checked off already as a win, right?) Last year the Illini needed 3OT to beat a horrid Rutgers team and Freshman PG Corey Sanders put up 39 points against the Illini. What could go wrong?

Go Illini!

It was sarcasm, if you were offended, sorry. As far as competing, we haven't in quite sometime. My belief is unless we do something extra ordinary the Selection Committee, because we haven't been relevant for a few years, will not be likely to put us in if we are on the bubble.

CAHALL15 · Dec 28, 2016

An away loss to a solid team does not determine our future, but once again, it's the tournament or the streets, in my opinion.

EllderIlliniFan · Dec 28, 2016

Bear8287 said:
Abrams listed as a starter here.

Abrams foul at 19:10 and subbed out for Tate at 18:43 (under Play-by-Play tab).

I believe he also had a turnover and a forced shot. He was trying to do too much and I believe that is why he was pulled so fast.

KansasIllinifan · Dec 28, 2016

Watching News 25 tonight.The sports guy(can't think of his name at the moment)said Illini couldn't compete with Maryland because we lack a Big caliber point guard.He gets it.

Ken · Dec 28, 2016

GameOfThrows said:
It's a long shot but a line-up change and limiting minutes for JCL and Tate would do wonders for the team.

Lucas >> Tate
Abrams >> Coleman-Lands and Jordan
Hill >> DJ and Kipper
Black > Finke
Morgan >> Thorne

Change the starters to above and play Lucas, Abrams and Hill 30+ minutes/game, we'll be able to compete against most BIG teams (Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana notwithstanding) This line-up might be able to get to 10 wins if they can get hot after the first half BIG schedule gauntlet and reel off some successive wins in the last 10 games of the season.

It's a long shot, but about the only shot.

How about we put a lineup that actually gives us some advantages to choose from on the floor

TJL
DJW
Hill
Black
Morgan

radiodj · Dec 28, 2016

Ken said:
How about we put a lineup that actually gives us some advantages to choose from on the floor

TJL
DJW
Hill
Black
Morgan

At a certain point it feels like we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. With this lineup you have a question mark at PG and SG. A 3 who has a hard time defending 3's. A 4 who can't stay on the floor long enough to make a difference. And a 5 that's below B1G standards both offensively and defensively.

Bear8287 · Dec 28, 2016

EllderIlliniFan said:
I believe he also had a turnover and a forced shot. He was trying to do too much and I believe that is why he was pulled so fast.

Hey, we can check that at the same site:

18:43 TURNOVER by ABRAMS,TRACY

So, it looks like Tracy's turnover stopped the clock and that was when Tate was subbed in for him...

No shot indicated in the first 1:17.

FiveStar · Dec 28, 2016

radiodj said:
And a 5 that's below B1G standards both offensively and defensively.

Defensively sure. Offensively, are we still gonna act like Mav hasn't developed into a legitimate option?

Bear8287 · Dec 28, 2016

PostersLastStand said:
if you were offended, sorry.

No problem. No offense taken. No need for any apology.

It's a sports message board. I try not to take any of this personally, but that doesn't mean I won't challenge someone if what they're posting seems strange.

Ken · Dec 28, 2016

radiodj said:
At a certain point it feels like we're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. With this lineup you have a question mark at PG and SG. A 3 who has a hard time defending 3's. A 4 who can't stay on the floor long enough to make a difference. And a 5 that's below B1G standards both offensively and defensively.

but they are not question marks they are young players you are trying to develop instead of playing seniors you no already have low ceilings.

We are wasting a ton of minutes playing some seniors who you know at their best are fives when you have young players right now in the same minutes would be fours but could maybe develop into eights .

Illini B-Ball Fan · Dec 28, 2016

HeartofaChampion said:
+1. Why JT continues playing more than spot minutes is the biggest mystery of this season.

If coach loses his job at the end of the year, this may be one of his Achilles heel blindspots that adds to burying him in his stubborn determination to continue to play JT more than he should.

radiodj · Dec 28, 2016

FiveStar said:
Defensively sure. Offensively, are we still gonna act like Mav hasn't developed into a legitimate option?

I never said that. But he's still middle of pack (at best) when it comes to B1G 5's.

radiodj · Dec 28, 2016

Ken said:
but they are not question marks they are young players you are trying to develop instead of playing seniors you no already have low ceilings.

We are wasting a ton of minutes playing some seniors who you know at their best are fives when you have young players right now in the same minutes would be fours but could maybe develop into eights .

Groce has to feel the heat beneath him. He's in no position to play guys in conference play to develop them. That should have been done in the non-con. To keep his job, he needs wins.

illini8507 · Dec 28, 2016

radiodj said:
I never said that. But he's still middle of pack (at best) when it comes to B1G 5's.

Middle of the pack is better than "below b1g standards"

RickBB · Dec 28, 2016

radiodj said:
Groce has to feel the heat beneath him. He's in no position to play guys in conference play to develop them. That should have been done in the non-con. To keep his job, he needs wins.

If Groce thinks Tate gives him a better chance at winning right now against high major competition, he better take all his analytics and throw them in the trash along with all his orange ties, cause he won't need them in a few months. Anyone who has ever played any level of basketball or even has two eyes can see that Lucas is a better option against higher level talent.

The Worm · Dec 28, 2016

KansasIllinifan said:
Watching News 25 tonight.The sports guy(can't think of his name at the moment)said Illini couldn't compete with Maryland because we lack a Big caliber point guard.He gets it.

The defense is porous, but this is still the biggest issue, IMO.

When B1G games inevitably turn into half court sets, we get abused because we don't really have ANYBODY that can create offense off the bounce. Due to this, we are heavily reliant on hitting jumpers or big men beating their man in the post. Without being able to break down a defense with penetration, we're forced into lower percentage shots versus what our opponents get on the other end. Additionally, when we're missing jumpers it tends to lead to run outs for the opponent putting the defense under further stress.

Now, my problem with Jaylon Tate playing is due to the fact he has clearly established his inabilities for 3 consecutive years. His half court offensive contributions consist of slowly bringing the ball up court, dribbling in place for a few seconds as he awaits a wing player to break free, only to pass and go stand on the opposite wing while his man sags to defend the lane. There is absolutely zero court spacing with him on the court and the offense clearly suffers. Worse is when tries to force offense (pathetically) by himself.

John Groce, if you are reading, please see the light.

alexander58 · Dec 28, 2016

KansasIllinifan said:
Watching News 25 tonight.The sports guy(can't think of his name at the moment)said Illini couldn't compete with Maryland because we lack a Big caliber point guard.He gets it.

Lacking an elite point guard doesn't explain playing poor defense or not competing. While some lack great quickness, others are capable of being above average defenders. I don't remember seeing consistent defensive effort for multiple games in Groce's tenure.