I think they’re not there because the nerdstats being fed to Underwood are being used to persuade him to sell out limiting three pointers - it’s NBA strategy and it is stupid to just stick with that stubbornly (for way too long) regardless of opponent or the flow of a particular game. It’s like always going for 2 in football without accounting for score differential, opponent, time remaining and the flow of the game.
Maryland 88, Illinois 65 Postgame
- Status
Oh stop it. You're not "embarrassed" in any meaningful. And Groce teams, if you'll recall, didn't dance after getting blown off the court in a B10 tournament game.
Here's a perspective: Maryland is really good and clicking and about to go on a run. They have our number and are a terrible matchup for us. And the big dance is allll about matchups and getting on rolls. We could get good matchups and could get on a roll.
I'm sorry, but when fans question the entire team's effort I get annoyed.
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Did they really have a "come to Jesus" moment or was it just a false peak with 4 straight good matchups for them against pretty soft teams.
They got Iowa twice, Iowa is soft and unathletic and their best interior player missed both games. Michigans guards are soft and unathletic, Wolf has looked awful the last month, and Vlad doesn't move much, and Purdue only has two good players in Smith and TKR and they lack both size and athleticism yet they still controlled the game until the end.
I think the truth about this Illini team is that they are soft, unathletic, and don't shoot well enough or play smart enough to make up for those deficiencies. They do have good size and length and are able to exploit that in certain matchups like Iowa.
Last years team had actual leaders in Shannon and Domask and they physically bullied nearly everyone with size and athleticism (Shannon was a freak but Guerrier, Ty, and Coleman all were plus athletes, Domask wasn't super explosive but was smart, had good size, and was strong). Who on this years team is a plus athlete?
Apparently they thought Iowa showed up again.
Well Illinois with a prayer can maybe make the sweet 16 what I do know for sure is this team is definitely not making an Elite 8 . So let’s see what’s next for underachieving Brad Underwood and Next Season. Underwood Season 9. The Brad Underwood can do no wrong fans need another 5 seasons to see that Underwood is not it.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Groce’s *best* finish in KenPom was 39. His average finish was 70.
Brad’s *worst* finish in KenPom over the past 6 years is 35. His average finish in the same stretch is 20. And we’re currently 20 this year.
While this was an ugly, ugly game, Brad’s tenure is literally nothing like Groce’s.
1000x this. you need keepers of the culture to carry it on to future seasons. Ty is one of those guys but I think it's hard to have the same impact when you're not playing
the national
- the Front Range
Do they have scrubs? Smallest bench of all time he big ten teams.
Agree with all this. Illinois this year reminds me of Iowa of the past. Can score. But soft. And not very athletic. They can’t win ugly.
I was surprised how positive Jeremy Werner was in the post game thinking some corner was turned vs Iowa twice, at Michigan, and Purdue. Iowa was a dead team. Irrelevant. Michigan was a very solid controlling win. Purdue was a game Illinois pulled out, but I thought Purdue played better and lead most of the game.
So these 4 games I don’t really see any corner turned. Illinois is what they always have been. A soft team. Turns the ball over a lot. Not athletic enough to win ugly
I was surprised how positive Jeremy Werner was in the post game thinking some corner was turned vs Iowa twice, at Michigan, and Purdue. Iowa was a dead team. Irrelevant. Michigan was a very solid controlling win. Purdue was a game Illinois pulled out, but I thought Purdue played better and lead most of the game.
So these 4 games I don’t really see any corner turned. Illinois is what they always have been. A soft team. Turns the ball over a lot. Not athletic enough to win ugly
Take a freaking charge once in a while.
I’m so sick and tired of hearing about Groce Shut up about Groce . My goodness Groce hasn’t been the Coach of Illinois for 8 years .Leave the man alone. its ALL UNDERWOOD. The world and College Sports has changed dramatically since 2017 and Groce . NIL Transfer Portal and Illinois finished 7th in the Big Ten regular season and got completely destroyed in the quarterfinals of BTT with 2 first round NBA lottery picks. Illinois under Underwood is going backwards . 1 Big Ten Regular season championship, 2 BTT tournament championships and 1 elite 8 in 8 seasons is not going to cut it. I know you Baby Boomer section of the Illinois fan base loves mediocrity but I DON’T
So there's nothing good about them then.
I thought we looked plenty athletic vs Iowa, specifically in making some difficult catches of Tomi passes, dunking, moving without the ball, skying for rebounds.
I gotta say, the "they have low IQ" type of comments are probably the most offensive of comments in a long list of offensive comments by message-board experts that they'd never say to a coach's or player's face (such as if they were a journalist).
Lol in what world could you play Tomi next to two legit bigs at the same time and expect to be a competitive team?
Hes a skilled, slow footed 7 footer that can stretch the floor. They just need more athleticism at the guard and wing spots around him. Even Morez is more of an undersized 5 than a 4 imo so he isn't a great complement on the floor at the same time.
Coleman actually would have been the perfect big to play next to Tomi or a Coleman type with a little more bounce to protect the rim.
Hes a skilled, slow footed 7 footer that can stretch the floor. They just need more athleticism at the guard and wing spots around him. Even Morez is more of an undersized 5 than a 4 imo so he isn't a great complement on the floor at the same time.
Coleman actually would have been the perfect big to play next to Tomi or a Coleman type with a little more bounce to protect the rim.
Nothing like folks coming on here and telling others how they actually feel and telling everyone else exactly how they expect everyone to be a fan of this team. While our team was in the process of having a few good games prior to this one, I read all kinds of nonsense here about those who have expressed their discontent regarding how unprepared our team has looked during a number of bad losses this season. I read stuff about how we were "afraid to show our faces" here and more such nonsense.
Look, if it floats your boat to focus on nothing but the positives about our team and blinder out everything negative, fine. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is when folks tell me that I'm not a "real Illini fan" and attempt to act as the fan police around here when our team and our coaches lay an egg out there like they did today and folks like me express our discontent.
We are one of the most storied and one of the most highly funded basketball programs in the country. We pay our coach one of the highest salaries in the country: top 10. Personally, for me, that means we should expect the sweet sixteen and contention for conference titles as the norm. Not the exception. Unless we look completely different in a few days, the sweet sixteen doesn't seem too likely, and for me, that isn't okay. Furthermore, my issue with our coaching is how unprepared we've looked on both ends of the floor during WAY too many games this season...how our guys look like they have no idea how to defend a basic screen and roll...how our guys don't seem to understand how to use screens to get separation...how our rotations haven't made sense at all during too many games, along with a bunch of other coaching issues.
If you disagree with my point of view, fine. Far be it for me to tell you how to think, what to feel, or how to be a fan. It would be nice if others could afford me the same courtesy along with others who feel differently than those who feel everything's rosy for our team right now.
It's not really offensive it's just a fact. They have played dumb basketball for the most part and I would happily say that to Brad(I'm not going to say that to an 18-22 year old kid). Sports journalists have to maintain a relationship with these programs and coaches so I doubt they would say that in public.
Poor shot selection(ridiculous heat check or out of rhythm 3s), passing choices, defensive choices, etc. This isn't a smart or well coached basketball team.
You're right they looked plenty athletic against Iowa because Iowa has the athleticism of a Missouri valley team.
I didn't say there was nothing good about them just that they are not a good team. It's just a poor roster composition imo. You often have 3 or 4 guys on the court that are average or worse athletically for the power conference level.
Tomi is a skilled 7 footer which is fairly rare but he's also soft(he is still recovering from mono so can cut him some slack).
Morez plays hard and is only a freshman but he looks promising.
Riley has good size and is a creative scorer but he lacks strength and explosiveness. Kasparis is an unselfish and creative player but he lacks explosiveness. Boswell plays hard and gives defensive effort but he's limited athletically for a small guard and has been atrocious shooting the ball. White is pretty Jekyll and Hyde with who shows up. Humrichous tries but is also limited athletically.
I don't know if you noticed a trend there but it's a lot of guys that aren't explosive or plus athletes. Plenty of guys like that are great basketball players and can be good fits but the Illini just have too many of them. Both Kasparis and Boswell would be better off with an explosive guard next to them to cover up for their weaknesses. The same thing could be said for Riley, Hum, and so on.
Poor shot selection(ridiculous heat check or out of rhythm 3s), passing choices, defensive choices, etc. This isn't a smart or well coached basketball team.
You're right they looked plenty athletic against Iowa because Iowa has the athleticism of a Missouri valley team.
I didn't say there was nothing good about them just that they are not a good team. It's just a poor roster composition imo. You often have 3 or 4 guys on the court that are average or worse athletically for the power conference level.
Tomi is a skilled 7 footer which is fairly rare but he's also soft(he is still recovering from mono so can cut him some slack).
Morez plays hard and is only a freshman but he looks promising.
Riley has good size and is a creative scorer but he lacks strength and explosiveness. Kasparis is an unselfish and creative player but he lacks explosiveness. Boswell plays hard and gives defensive effort but he's limited athletically for a small guard and has been atrocious shooting the ball. White is pretty Jekyll and Hyde with who shows up. Humrichous tries but is also limited athletically.
I don't know if you noticed a trend there but it's a lot of guys that aren't explosive or plus athletes. Plenty of guys like that are great basketball players and can be good fits but the Illini just have too many of them. Both Kasparis and Boswell would be better off with an explosive guard next to them to cover up for their weaknesses. The same thing could be said for Riley, Hum, and so on.
Last edited:
Illini in Italy
- Illini HQ, Florida Panhandle
Yeah, all the expert coach a$$hats coming out of the woodwork tonight.
Are you a team mom? Did you bring oranges at halftime?
When people say they have low IQ, they don't mean the kids are literally stupid. It's low basketball IQ, meaning not switching properly, not finding an open shooter(on either side of the floor), not watching the shot clock, etc.
We don't have to say it to a coach's face because they see it themselves and say it themselves. We're not splitting atoms here.
They looked athletic versus Iowa because they're less athletic than we are. It's ok to point out obvious things
P.s....don't forget the juice boxes for after the games.
C'mon......
When people say they have low IQ, they don't mean the kids are literally stupid. It's low basketball IQ, meaning not switching properly, not finding an open shooter(on either side of the floor), not watching the shot clock, etc.
We don't have to say it to a coach's face because they see it themselves and say it themselves. We're not splitting atoms here.
They looked athletic versus Iowa because they're less athletic than we are. It's ok to point out obvious things
P.s....don't forget the juice boxes for after the games.
C'mon......
Ok, I am beyond frustrated with this season and how it has played out. Today's game just added to the frustration and disappointment. But here's the big thing I don't get.
We are not a good 3-point shooting team. Every announcer for every game in the last two months and every podcaster on every podcast in the last two months has said this. Our stats say this (22% from three for this game, 31% from three for the year). Yet we have been a 3-point driven offense all season. We shoot more threes than just about any other team in the country! And Brad sees nothing wrong with this. In fact, he insists on it.
Okay, so you say it is all Brad and his analytics. Well, let's look at our points per attempt numbers. We have shot 57.6% from 2 this year and 31.4% from 3. That means on any 2-point attempt, we can expect to score .576 x 2= 1.152 points. On any 3-point attempt, we can expect to score .314 x 3 = .942 points. Talk to any coach in the country that pays attention to analytics (most of them do) and they will say that with those numbers, you should run a very 2-point heavy offense. You can run a 3-point heavy offense when you have a bunch of Steph Currys, but we don't. And when you don't have them, your offense has to get to the basket. But only 53% of our attempts this year have been from two and 47% of our attempts have been from three (for reference, the average NCAA team takes about 25% of their attempts from three). In today's Maryland game, we shot 57% of our attempts from two and scored .944 points per attempt and we shot 43% of our attempts from three and scored .666 points per attempt. Just like all season, each 2-point attempt yielded more points than each 3-point attempt. When you have those productivity numbers and insist on shooting a lot of threes, the numbers say you will lose a fair number of games.
Bottom line: I simply don't understand our fixation on shooting all these threes all season. Either Brad is crazy (stubborn) or the announcers, the podcasters and everyone else who studies our stats is.
We are not a good 3-point shooting team. Every announcer for every game in the last two months and every podcaster on every podcast in the last two months has said this. Our stats say this (22% from three for this game, 31% from three for the year). Yet we have been a 3-point driven offense all season. We shoot more threes than just about any other team in the country! And Brad sees nothing wrong with this. In fact, he insists on it.
Okay, so you say it is all Brad and his analytics. Well, let's look at our points per attempt numbers. We have shot 57.6% from 2 this year and 31.4% from 3. That means on any 2-point attempt, we can expect to score .576 x 2= 1.152 points. On any 3-point attempt, we can expect to score .314 x 3 = .942 points. Talk to any coach in the country that pays attention to analytics (most of them do) and they will say that with those numbers, you should run a very 2-point heavy offense. You can run a 3-point heavy offense when you have a bunch of Steph Currys, but we don't. And when you don't have them, your offense has to get to the basket. But only 53% of our attempts this year have been from two and 47% of our attempts have been from three (for reference, the average NCAA team takes about 25% of their attempts from three). In today's Maryland game, we shot 57% of our attempts from two and scored .944 points per attempt and we shot 43% of our attempts from three and scored .666 points per attempt. Just like all season, each 2-point attempt yielded more points than each 3-point attempt. When you have those productivity numbers and insist on shooting a lot of threes, the numbers say you will lose a fair number of games.
Bottom line: I simply don't understand our fixation on shooting all these threes all season. Either Brad is crazy (stubborn) or the announcers, the podcasters and everyone else who studies our stats is.
It was obvious we came out fearing our opponent. Riley, KJ just scared to shoot and passed up some easy shots. We need those 2 guys to be aggressive every damn game. Tomi just not strong enough with physical front court players. We play like freshman as the coach said (well yes, we have those). Just not enough alpha's on this team to make a good run. The first physical team with decent shot making abilities will run us out of the gym in the tourney.
Do you have two logins? Or just offended in general?
Sorry to have upset you.
Sorry to have upset you.
Thank You Well said my friend. I totally agree with everything you said. I couldn’t have said it better. One of the best comments I’ve read on this forum
Illini in Italy
- Illini HQ, Florida Panhandle
Well, I guess you’ve got got all the problems solved. Look forward to seeing you on the sideline coaching the Beloved to a B1G championship and a natty!
- Status