Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Or … hear me out … wall off that mess with a pretty brick wall to match West Main and restore symmetry to Memorial Stadium, then redistribute that capacity to make the Horseshoe more imposing!!
Memorial Stadium
But that doesn’t change the need to sandblasting and paint.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Oh, for sure agree there.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Agreed. However, I was perusing this cool website that has 360 panoramas of various stadiums, and I found multiple great examples of what we can do with the South End Zone. I wouldn't necessarily want it to look exactly like any one of these, but all are great examples of exactly what you want with end zone seating - an imposing/tall structure to round out the stadium and trap noise but that also really doesn't have that high of a capacity.
I tried to keep this to stadiums with a similar situation as we have, in that the end zone seats are not a clear continuation of the architecture of the rest of the stadium. For a comparison, the short and visually ugly Horseshoe (JMO!) has nearly 10,000 ... we could put something SO much more efficient in that space.
Virginia Tech: 11,100 seats
Iowa: 10,200 seats
Mississippi State: 8,800 seats
Indiana: 5,400 seats
Texas Tech: Unknown ... doesn't look like very many!
I understand money is the object, but I'm eager to see us fix up the Horseshoe and take Memorial Stadium to the next level. Having something like Mississippi State but with architecture as prominent as what Texas Tech has (except, of course, matching the rest of Memorial Stadium) would be an absolute home run.
Much as I hate to say anything positive about Iowa, the Kinnick Stadium endzone looks great. Would like to see Memorial Stadium with that look. Modern and clean with great lines.
BZuppke
- Plainfield
It doesn’t look good at all. It looks like a pig sty. Don’t weaken brother.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
And TBF to the DIA, once we get the money for it ... our originally (circa October 2016) renovation actually looks to be following that look for the most part:
I know this is just a drawing, but I would like to see something a little more like Mississippi State given our stadium's setup, so that it would:
1. Line up the top of the SEZ seats with the the lower "rim" of West Main to make it look more symmetrical.
2. Allow for some more suites (not saying I love that idea on the surface, but that seems to be the deal breaker for renovations making financial sense!).
3. Give more room at the top for some brick architecture to go from tower to tower and really tie the stadium together aesthetically.
I know I harp on this, but I truly believe that our stadium is near perfection between the end zones, about a B+ in the NEZ and a C- in the Horseshoe. If we just had a stadium like Purdue and "it was ours" and I had to love it for what it is as a relatively finished product, fine ... I wouldn't really care. However, I feel MS is in this weird middle ground where it is relatively SO close to being an elite and memorable venue in the college football world, but it's missing a vital piece that causes people to overlook it as a "meh" stadium if you are not an Illini fan. It's like when a high school coach only yells at the players he believes can improve!
Don't ever put another picture of IOWA on here again.Agreed. However, I was perusing this cool website that has 360 panoramas of various stadiums, and I found multiple great examples of what we can do with the South End Zone. I wouldn't necessarily want it to look exactly like any one of these, but all are great examples of exactly what you want with end zone seating - an imposing/tall structure to round out the stadium and trap noise but that also really doesn't have that high of a capacity.
I tried to keep this to stadiums with a similar situation as we have, in that the end zone seats are not a clear continuation of the architecture of the rest of the stadium. For a comparison, the short and visually ugly Horseshoe (JMO!) has nearly 10,000 ... we could put something SO much more efficient in that space.
Virginia Tech: 11,100 seats
Iowa: 10,200 seats
Mississippi State: 8,800 seats
Indiana: 5,400 seats
Texas Tech: Unknown ... doesn't look like very many!
I understand money is the object, but I'm eager to see us fix up the Horseshoe and take Memorial Stadium to the next level. Having something like Mississippi State but with architecture as prominent as what Texas Tech has (except, of course, matching the rest of Memorial Stadium) would be an absolute home run.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Broken clocks are right twice a day! But as I said, I think the true home run is taking the best elements of Mississippi State, Texas Tech (but with MS architectural themes) and the original MS renovation design. Once the money is there, the sky is the limit for Memorial Stadium. Most of it is so beautiful, and the parts that are not can be fixed relatively easily!
You count all of us here on Loyalty as your friends, right?
Due to failing expansion joints in Memorial Stadium, the board agreed on a $3.75 million budget to replace them. The replacement prevents water from getting into the joints and rusting the structural steel.
The project, awarded to Berglund Construction Company, will also paint the steel on the east ramp and upper balcony to prevent rust.
dailyillini.com
The project, awarded to Berglund Construction Company, will also paint the steel on the east ramp and upper balcony to prevent rust.
Board of trustees meets to discuss tuition, department renaming - The Daily Illini
During its bimonthly meeting, the University of Illinois Board of Trustees approved new tuition rates, renamed a department and awarded construction contracts. The meeting, held at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign on Thursday, also discussed changes in student fees and housing...
dailyillini.com
The horseshoe should have been almost on the field. About where the ROTC does its pushups after a score.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I know this is my hill to die on to a truly excessive level, but it's really annoying that it would NOT be expensive whatsoever to get some temporary bleachers made to fit the gap absolutely perfectly and bring the stands down to the field ... literally so easy. It's not a permanent fix, of course, but it would be nice in the meantime ... it's actually kind of crazy how much more complete the stadium looks in the second picture below just by having a few more rows closer to the field. Because the Horseshoe goes back at such a gradual angle (ala the Big House), what looks like a small gap to the field at ground level is an incredibly significant (and terrible looking) gap when viewed from the angle of the seats' trajectory:
Current Horseshoe
Adding Rows
On topic of the renovations, have we thought about trying to make our stadium unique by painting the beams orange?? I'm sure that would just seem too "out there" for the notoriously straight-laced DIA, but I think people underestimate and underrate the subtle things that make a stadium stand out compared to the rest. The fact that Fenway Park is as green as it is (seriously, who would have a color that "in your face" so prominent everywhere building a new ballpark in 2024?) or the ivy on a brick wall at Wrigley (totally unsafe and inefficient by 2024 standards, charm be damned!) are what make iconic stadiums iconic.
Borussia Dortmund's soccer stadium is considered one of the most iconic in Europe, and the colors that vibrate throughout (including yellow beams) is part of it. I think it would be awesome to see some similarly funky orange coloring be the replacement at Memorial Stadium:
P.S. Signal Iduna Park (pictured above) is also a shining example of how steep stadiums are infinitely better than gradual ones like the Big House.
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One day you are going to go postal and the police will find a 50 page manifesto about memorial stadiumI know this is my hill to die on to a truly excessive level, but it's really annoying that it would NOT be expensive whatsoever to get some temporary bleachers made to fit the gap absolutely perfectly and bring the stands down to the field ... literally so easy. It's not a permanent fix, of course, but it would be nice in the meantime ... it's actually kind of crazy how much more complete the stadium looks in the second picture below just by having a few more rows closer to the field. Because the Horseshoe goes back at such a gradual angle (ala the Big House), what looks like a small gap to the field at ground level is an incredibly significant (and terrible looking) gap when viewed from the angle of the seats' trajectory:
Current Horseshoe
View attachment 30749
Adding Rows
View attachment 30752
On topic of the renovations, have we thought about trying to make our stadium unique by painting the beams orange?? I'm sure that would just seem too "out there" for the notoriously straight-laced DIA, but I think people underestimate and underrate the subtle things that make a stadium stand out compared to the rest. The fact that Fenway Park is as green as it is (seriously, who would have a color that "in your face" so prominent everywhere building a new ballpark in 2024?) or the ivy on a brick wall at Wrigley (totally unsafe and inefficient by 2024 standards, charm be damned!) are what make iconic stadiums iconic.
Borussia Dortmund's soccer stadium is considered one of the most iconic in Europe, and the colors that vibrate throughout (including yellow beams) is part of it. I think it would be awesome to see some similarly funky orange coloring be the replacement at Memorial Stadium:
P.S. Signal Iduna Park (pictured above) is also a shining example of how steep stadiums are infinitely better than gradual ones like the Big House.
aiwpfan
- Springfield, Il
Don't give him any ideas about stealing signals
Champaign Toast
Fan since Kiwane Garris
I know this is my hill to die on to a truly excessive level, but it's really annoying that it would NOT be expensive whatsoever to get some temporary bleachers made to fit the gap absolutely perfectly and bring the stands down to the field ... literally so easy. It's not a permanent fix, of course, but it would be nice in the meantime ... it's actually kind of crazy how much more complete the stadium looks in the second picture below just by having a few more rows closer to the field. Because the Horseshoe goes back at such a gradual angle (ala the Big House), what looks like a small gap to the field at ground level is an incredibly significant (and terrible looking) gap when viewed from the angle of the seats' trajectory:
Current Horseshoe
View attachment 30749
Adding Rows
View attachment 30752
On topic of the renovations, have we thought about trying to make our stadium unique by painting the beams orange?? I'm sure that would just seem too "out there" for the notoriously straight-laced DIA, but I think people underestimate and underrate the subtle things that make a stadium stand out compared to the rest. The fact that Fenway Park is as green as it is (seriously, who would have a color that "in your face" so prominent everywhere building a new ballpark in 2024?) or the ivy on a brick wall at Wrigley (totally unsafe and inefficient by 2024 standards, charm be damned!) are what make iconic stadiums iconic.
Borussia Dortmund's soccer stadium is considered one of the most iconic in Europe, and the colors that vibrate throughout (including yellow beams) is part of it. I think it would be awesome to see some similarly funky orange coloring be the replacement at Memorial Stadium:
P.S. Signal Iduna Park (pictured above) is also a shining example of how steep stadiums are infinitely better than gradual ones like the Big House.
Great comments, including the comparison to a very cool European soccer stadium. I love the topic of the south end zone and Memorial Stadium renovations in general. Our stadium is iconic, historic, out of date, beautiful, quarky, and awkward at all once. I have mixed feeling about the north end zone design, and am also really bothered by the distance between field of play and the first row of seats in the south end zone. You'll probably remember they used to place portable bleachers on the turf behind the south end zone, which was truly awkward.
Your second image of Memorial Stadium looks so natural and simple. I too have wondered in the past why they wouldn't execute such a basic fix. I suppose the answer lies somewhere in the realm of "since we don't need an increase in seating capacity, if we're going to do work there, let's go all in on revenue generators and value to the progam with special seating options, better concession opportunities, team store, perhaps a recruiting area, non-flammable equipment storage areas (LOL), etc."
A number of design renderings have been suggested over the years, plenty of them quite good. For the sake of symmetry, I could even see something with right angles to match the north end zone, rather than a rounded stand. Something tall enough to affect an imposing feel upon players, Coliseum-like. Borussia Dortmund's stadium is such an example of four tall stands boxing in the field. In the corners, I would envision party decks.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Love your zeal, Fighter; however, we need a program that can put butts consistently in the seats of the existing horseshoe, and the East Balcony, before adding more capacity. We don't want to end up looking like UCLA playing it reg season home games in the Rose Bowl. The horseshoe definitely needs to extend down to the field for aesthetic purposes. Maybe someday, far in future, upward, too if demand justifies it.And TBF to the DIA, once we get the money for it ... our originally (circa October 2016) renovation actually looks to be following that look for the most part:
View attachment 30263
I know this is just a drawing, but I would like to see something a little more like Mississippi State given our stadium's setup, so that it would:
1. Line up the top of the SEZ seats with the the lower "rim" of West Main to make it look more symmetrical.
2. Allow for some more suites (not saying I love that idea on the surface, but that seems to be the deal breaker for renovations making financial sense!).
3. Give more room at the top for some brick architecture to go from tower to tower and really tie the stadium together aesthetically.
I know I harp on this, but I truly believe that our stadium is near perfection between the end zones, about a B+ in the NEZ and a C- in the Horseshoe. If we just had a stadium like Purdue and "it was ours" and I had to love it for what it is as a relatively finished product, fine ... I wouldn't really care. However, I feel MS is in this weird middle ground where it is relatively SO close to being an elite and memorable venue in the college football world, but it's missing a vital piece that causes people to overlook it as a "meh" stadium if you are not an Illini fan. It's like when a high school coach only yells at the players he believes can improve!
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I agree with your point, for sure, but my fix which I have been quite adamant about is to completely remove (what I see as) useless capacity under the East Balcony and to redistribute that capacity to the Horseshoe. Something like this as a fix to make it more symmetrical to the west side:
Current Design
Walling Off Seats Under East Balcony to Match West
Believe it or not, I saw someone post once that we have as many as 7,000 seats underneath the East Balcony.
You could redistribute all of that to the Horseshoe and not add a single seat to our total capacity, while making the Horseshoe structure a MUCH more imposing and aesthetically pleasing area of the stadium. One of the weirdest things about Memorial Stadium is that we actually manage to make a lot of seats look like not that many by the way it's laid out. Again, for reference from my post earlier in the thread, both of these sections have around 10,000 seats in them...Illinois' Horseshoe
Iowa's North End Zone
The goal/trend is to have as big of a structure as possible that doesn't add that much to your capacity ... we have VERY much the opposite with the Horseshoe, haha. I hate the Hawkeyes as much as the next guy, but it's breathtakingly annoying how much more effectively they distribute 10k seats in the same area of their stadium compared to what we have. I think the ultimate plan should be:
1) Remove all seats underneath the East Balcony so it matches the west side ---> capacity reduced to 53k
2) Demolish the Horseshoe --> capacity reduced further to 43k
3) Build a truly impressive structure in the South Endzone that incorporates Memorial Stadium's beautiful architecture and helps to enclose the noise, let's say a structure that has like 12k seats ---> final capacity of 55k
For reference, every single one of our Saturday home games last year except for Northwestern would have been over 90% capacity, and we would have had three games over 95% (and MSU last year would have been well over a sellout).
TL;DR
So I think 55k or so is actually an appropriate capacity for us, so I DEFINITELY agree with you that we should not be adding (net) seats. My issue is more with how inefficiently our capacity is spread out.
Agreed 100% with you, 55K capacity with a great stadium experience and maybe an additional deck to two for fans would be perfect for our needs.I agree with your point, for sure, but my fix which I have been quite adamant about is to completely remove (what I see as) useless capacity under the East Balcony and to redistribute that capacity to the Horseshoe. Something like this as a fix to make it more symmetrical to the west side:
Current Design
View attachment 30761
Walling Off Seats Under East Balcony to Match West
View attachment 30762
Believe it or not, I saw someone post once that we have as many as 7,000 seats underneath the East Balcony.
Illinois' Horseshoe
Iowa's North End Zone
The goal/trend is to have as big of a structure as possible that doesn't add that much to your capacity ... we have VERY much the opposite with the Horseshoe, haha. I hate the Hawkeyes as much as the next guy, but it's breathtakingly annoying how much more effectively they distribute 10k seats in the same area of their stadium compared to what we have. I think the ultimate plan should be:
1) Remove all seats underneath the East Balcony so it matches the west side ---> capacity reduced to 53k
2) Demolish the Horseshoe --> capacity reduced further to 43k
3) Build a truly impressive structure in the South Endzone that incorporates Memorial Stadium's beautiful architecture and helps to enclose the noise, let's say a structure that has like 12k seats ---> final capacity of 55k
For reference, every single one of our Saturday home games last year except for Northwestern would have been over 90% capacity, and we would have had three games over 95% (and MSU last year would have been well over a sellout).
TL;DR
So I think 55k or so is actually an appropriate capacity for us, so I DEFINITELY agree with you that we should not be adding (net) seats. My issue is more with how inefficiently our capacity is spread out.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Ah, I see. I now recall you getting into this last fall. Thanks. My reaction is to ask why we would want move capacity located along the sidelines under the EB (where, admittedly, I've never sat, though I sat for years in a similar position in the old "B" deck on the west side of Ohio Stadium, where the luxury boxes are now located) to inferior vantage points in the SEZ? Seems like spending a lot of money to maintain the same capacity and reduce the quality of seating.I agree with your point, for sure, but my fix which I have been quite adamant about is to completely remove (what I see as) useless capacity under the East Balcony and to redistribute that capacity to the Horseshoe. Something like this as a fix to make it more symmetrical to the west side:
Current Design
View attachment 30761
Walling Off Seats Under East Balcony to Match West
View attachment 30762
Believe it or not, I saw someone post once that we have as many as 7,000 seats underneath the East Balcony.
Illinois' Horseshoe
Iowa's North End Zone
The goal/trend is to have as big of a structure as possible that doesn't add that much to your capacity ... we have VERY much the opposite with the Horseshoe, haha. I hate the Hawkeyes as much as the next guy, but it's breathtakingly annoying how much more effectively they distribute 10k seats in the same area of their stadium compared to what we have. I think the ultimate plan should be:
1) Remove all seats underneath the East Balcony so it matches the west side ---> capacity reduced to 53k
2) Demolish the Horseshoe --> capacity reduced further to 43k
3) Build a truly impressive structure in the South Endzone that incorporates Memorial Stadium's beautiful architecture and helps to enclose the noise, let's say a structure that has like 12k seats ---> final capacity of 55k
For reference, every single one of our Saturday home games last year except for Northwestern would have been over 90% capacity, and we would have had three games over 95% (and MSU last year would have been well over a sellout).
TL;DR
So I think 55k or so is actually an appropriate capacity for us, so I DEFINITELY agree with you that we should not be adding (net) seats. My issue is more with how inefficiently our capacity is spread out.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I mean this could be a fool's hope, but the renovation sketches that the DIA itself put out circa 2016 would be an absolute home run, IMO, and considering they published them ... I do not think it's realistic to hope for that in 4-5 years if the program continues to improve and we keep getting more and more money from the Big Ten. Obviously it got put on hold in favor of the practice facility and it's probably not realistic in the immediate term, but I would definitely argue that something that WAS on the "schedule" is probably realistic in the long term.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
That's a fair point and there are always going to pros and cons to every idea, but I am looking at this from a strictly "stadium environment/gameday atmosphere" perspective. And I see the Horseshoe as not only a bit of an eyesore but more importantly just an area that is way too wide open to effectively trap the noise and give us the type of home field advantage Iowa or Wisconsin have, even when we have a bigger crowd that is really into the game.
Lower the playing field. Remember the stadium was build to me multipurpose and included a track between the field and the stands. That wasn't uncommon back in the day. Most of us probably went to high school with a quarter mile running track between the bleachers and the field. When I was a student, members of Block I (then the card section only) entered the stadium through the northeast gate. It's where the football team enters the stadium now, went from completely outside the stadium (at that time a grass field) to the track, and we entered the Block I section (East Main, about the 40 yardline) from gthe track. In four years of attending games, I never once stepped into the concourse under the stands.
Lowering the field would allow more seats closer to the field (and to the home and visitor benches). Lowering the field would allow horseshoe seats to come down closer to the field. Or the whole horseshoe could be moved closer to the field with a plaza at the back of the top horseshoe seating. I'd find a way to leave that open at other than gametime as an attraction, the ability to see inside the stadium other than gametime.
Lowering the field would allow more seats closer to the field (and to the home and visitor benches). Lowering the field would allow horseshoe seats to come down closer to the field. Or the whole horseshoe could be moved closer to the field with a plaza at the back of the top horseshoe seating. I'd find a way to leave that open at other than gametime as an attraction, the ability to see inside the stadium other than gametime.
Kinnick is a great stadium to watch a game. There, I said it.
Now go remove that Indiana aberration and paint some lines on the Va Tech grass - it looks weird.