Memorial Stadium

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#77      
Fly Illini Fly!
The constraint with going all out into the roster is that it's anything but a forever investment. You can have an Oregon level roster for one year.... but unless it's no doubt natty, it's basically a one year toss.

With stadium renovations, you leave a lasting/culture impact. No doubt Josh is to handle it within the confines of the negotiations, while also maximizing the state of the program.
 
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#78      
Illini92and96
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The problem with investing into the roster is that it's not a forever investment. You can have an Oregon level roster for one year.... but unless it's no doubt natty, it's basically a one year toss.

With stadium renovations, you leave a bit more of a lasting/culture impact. No doubt Josh is to handle it within the confines of the negotiations, while also maximizing the state of the program.
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Exactly, why not make a badass stadium environment to help make sellouts (recurring $) sustainable and also help the W/L via a larger crowd and environment induced home field advantage
 
#79      
blackdog
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The constraint with going all out into the roster is that it's anything but a forever investment. You can have an Oregon level roster for one year.... but unless it's no doubt natty, it's basically a one year toss.

With stadium renovations, you leave a lasting/culture impact. No doubt Josh is to handle it within the confines of the negotiations, while also maximizing the state of the program.
Click to expand...

We've seen with the Smith Center and Ubben how investment into facilities provides HUGE benefits to improving the perception of the program.
 
#81      
Dkayak
Fly Illini Fly! said:
The constraint with going all out into the roster is that it's anything but a forever investment. You can have an Oregon level roster for one year.... but unless it's no doubt natty, it's basically a one year toss.

With stadium renovations, you leave a lasting/culture impact. No doubt Josh is to handle it within the confines of the negotiations, while also maximizing the state of the program.
Click to expand...
You’re describing the difference between a short term expense and a long term investment. Once the thrill of a big season passes, you’re still sitting in the same old stadium. And since the money was spent, you can no longer afford to buy a top team. Bret is laying the foundation for great performance on the field. Invest in the rest. But in the end it’s largely up to the donor(s), as it should be.
 
#82      
fuddrules
Fighter of the Nightman said:
The problem isn’t that the students / band are in the end zone … it’s the specifics of their placement. The NEZ starts WAY higher up than the rest of the stadium, and then it extends back into the air at an angle, with open gaps on either side of it … nothing to trap the noise and no fans right near field level. It’s literally a timeout center for rowdy drunk kids, which is so on brand for RG, lol.

I mentioned this before, but I came down for the Purdue game in 2022 and sat in West Main near the edge of the Horseshoe. Purdue brought a sizable fan contingent and brought its band, which was sat in our visitors section. We could hear Purdue’s band SO much louder because their noise was echoing off of the East Balcony overhang and the SE brick tower. Meanwhile, it seemed like the Marching Illini were playing into the wind.

If students and band are to stay in the NEZ, two things need to change, or our atmosphere potential will continue to be hindered:

1. Repurpose it so the first row of students isn’t so high up on the air … truly create that “wall of fans.”
2. Put something - ANYTHING but open air - to the left and right of the current stands to trap the noise.
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NEZ is perfectly placed. If you're sitting at field level, you can't see squat. It's a terrible view with no perspective when you're at field level or just above. You need to be elevated. The gaps on each side, are not the best, that is true. Maybe some day that'll change. Probably low on the priority list. You'll have to be the next big donor for it to move it higher on the list.

There's really a 0% chance, at best, students get moved prior to 2031, the next reseating. The DIA and BB are no longer talking about moving the students. That talk is now relegated to message board talk. The students can already choose to sit in east side sections 101, 102 and 103 but instead choose to fill up the NEZ first. I've sat in the NEZ for, I believe, a spring game. Viewing the game was good, far better than most seating in the SEZ.

Unless there's some massively expensive Gies Memorial Stadium reno ($500M+) where students have some dedicated section other than the NEZ, I don't see where they are going to move to in the stadium. With money being at a premium, 10k students are not taking away those prime money making sections. Will.Not.Happen and shouldn't happen. It's a money game. The students have seats that are good, not great. It's where they're staying at least in the mid-term future.

When a pep band is in the SE area of the stadium and you're sitting directly across from them, you're going to hear them loud and clear. That's how sound works. I think I read USC is sending a pep band. If so, get ready for a hair pulling experience. Just the way it is.
 
#83      
illinoistradition
fuddrules said:
NEZ is perfectly placed. If you're sitting at field level, you can't see squat. It's a terrible view with no perspective when you're at field level or just above. You need to be elevated. The gaps on each side, are not the best, that is true. Maybe some day that'll change. Probably low on the priority list. You'll have to be the next big donor for it to move it higher on the list.

There's really a 0% chance, at best, students get moved prior to 2031, the next reseating. The DIA and BB are no longer talking about moving the students. The talk is now relegated to message board talk. The students can already choose to sit in east side sections 101, 102 and 103 but instead choose to fill up the NEZ first. I've sat in the NEZ for, I believe, a spring game. Viewing the game was good, far better than most seating in the SEZ.

Unless there's some massively expensive Gies Memorial Stadium reno ($500M+) where students have some dedicated section other than the NEZ, I don't see where they are going to move to in the stadium. With money being at a premium, 10k students are not taking away those prime money making sections. Will.Not.Happen and shouldn't happen. It's a money game. The students have seats that are good, not great. It's where they're staying at least in the mid-term future.

When a pep band is in the SE area of the stadium and you're sitting directly across from them, you're going to hear them loud and clear. That's how sound works. I think I read USC is sending a pep band. If so, get ready for a hair pulling experience. Just the way it is.
Click to expand...
I totally agree and have never understood why the huge knock on the NEZ. It's a unique setup, especially when the opposing team is going towards that end zone. I wish it was a little lower, but I still think it has its advantages. The #1 thing that has to happen: get those opposing fans into the upper deck. Should happen immediately but it's mind-blowing that it doesn't.
 
#84      
fuddrules
illinoistradition said:
I totally agree and have never understood why the huge knock on the NEZ. It's a unique setup, especially when the opposing team is going towards that end zone. I wish it was a little lower, but I still think it has its advantages. The #1 thing that has to happen: get those opposing fans into the upper deck. Should happen immediately but it's mind-blowing that it doesn't.
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I wonder if there's some ADA issue with moving the visiting fans up top? I know elevators are on the west side, I don't believe there are any on the east side. I'm just guessing ADA may be a consideration.
 
#85      
chiefini
Our large main video board is two years past its lifetime. They don’t even make the parts for it anymore; it’s been held together with duct tape and bandaids as the DIA has prayed it won’t die during a game and will last another season. Anyone notice the black squares in it during our last game? Also, as anyone who has attended a game knows, the Wi-Fi infrastructure is horribly outdated and awful. To update just these two essential parts of the stadium will cost at least $20-30 million plus, money Illinois didn’t have because of the focus on the $21 million payout to athletes. The DIA has been cutting and shuffling around staff, services, and initiatives, including Illini Fan Council which was eliminated. There were even discussions about possibly having to cut non-revenue sports teams. This gift will immediately impact all of those critical areas and has provided relief to a very stressed Illini athletic administration…
 
#86      
Curbelo Fanboy
If only Beano Cook were still alive for this. He used to always say Illinois was a sleeping giant. It apperas the giant is a rumbling from his slumber now. On field has obviously improved & we have leadership that gets the concept of what it takes to play big boy sports.
 
#88      
Fighter of the Nightman
fuddrules said:
NEZ is perfectly placed. If you're sitting at field level, you can't see squat. It's a terrible view with no perspective when you're at field level or just above. You need to be elevated. The gaps on each side, are not the best, that is true. Maybe some day that'll change. Probably low on the priority list. You'll have to be the next big donor for it to move it higher on the list.

There's really a 0% chance, at best, students get moved prior to 2031, the next reseating. The DIA and BB are no longer talking about moving the students. That talk is now relegated to message board talk. The students can already choose to sit in east side sections 101, 102 and 103 but instead choose to fill up the NEZ first. I've sat in the NEZ for, I believe, a spring game. Viewing the game was good, far better than most seating in the SEZ.

Unless there's some massively expensive Gies Memorial Stadium reno ($500M+) where students have some dedicated section other than the NEZ, I don't see where they are going to move to in the stadium. With money being at a premium, 10k students are not taking away those prime money making sections. Will.Not.Happen and shouldn't happen. It's a money game. The students have seats that are good, not great. It's where they're staying at least in the mid-term future.

When a pep band is in the SE area of the stadium and you're sitting directly across from them, you're going to hear them loud and clear. That's how sound works. I think I read USC is sending a pep band. If so, get ready for a hair pulling experience. Just the way it is.
Click to expand...
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not disputing that the NEZ are great seats, but I don't know how it could be argued it is the ideal place for our student section. It seems PERFECTLY set up to be a seating area for families, possibly reworked to have some tiers that have concessions or little patio areas ... not for students. When it comes to the student section, the view from the first row shouldn't be our biggest priority ... it should be putting them where they will have the biggest effect on the game, most notably trapping their noise (they're objectively the loudest fans), and the NEZ might be the worst spot for that.

I also don't get why it's so outrageous to move them back somewhere else, lol. They were literally in East Main for the VAST majority of our history, no? The abnormal situation is them being where they are now. Literally every other area of the stadium has more infrastructure around it to trap noise, including the Horseshoe (despite the other things I hate about it). I think there are a lot more sections to work with here than people realize...

Football_SeatingMap_2023_7uSwE.jpg

For starters, , the visiting fans should have been moved out of Section 109 frickin' yesterday ... put them in 208 and 209 like other programs do. There is ZERO good argument against this. Why let Purdue's and USC's pep bands influence our atmosphere? Know where the Marching Illini was at the Big House in 2022? The last row. I would also argue that 110, 111, 112, 113 and 114 in the Horseshoe are objectively worse seats than the NEZ, and the students should be swapped with them, allowing "general fans" to take over the NEZ altogether. You then just have to probably replace the fans in 108 to get enough space for the students, no?

You're probably right that it won't change anytime soon, but I don't think that's fine ... our students have been great, and they could have a better opportunity to impact the game if they were in other sections. As for the Marching Illini, as long as there is that hideously pointless empty space in front of the Horseshoe, that is where the MI should be, IMO ... fill it with SOMETHING, and put them in an area where they'd be closer to the action.
 
#89      
Fighter of the Nightman
Back to the SEZ, I will reiterate that any improvement is awesome. The Horseshoe isn't an inherent problem because it's old ... East Main is old. It's a problem because it adds nothing to the stadium and even actively hurts the stadium. It's too far from the field, it packs the maximum number of fans into the smallest area possible (the opposite of what modern stadiums do), it slopes back too gradually to add the necessary height to make the stadium look complete and its architecture (specifically the exterior) is jarringly out of place compared to the beauty of the rest of the stadium. So, even just bringing the stands down to field level and touching up the back would be a HUGE improvement. With that in mind, I see the SEZ plans in these tiers.

Tier 1 - Bare Minimum ... If literally nothing else is done, we need to fill in the odd gap behind the end zone by bringing the first row down to grass level (similarly to the sections on either side of the Horseshoe) and add some rows behind the current last row to create some height. We haven't had a track in decades, so the front fix should have been done with temporary bleachers yesterday! Ideally, both of these are permanent seats that also touch up that area massively, internal and external. This is the fix if it is determined that we don't want to mess with removing more than we have to of the existing Horseshoe structure and can't get things to work behind the SEZ with the street or something.
Remodel 2.png


Tier 2 - Add in Some Suites ... This is the LSU example I posted the other day. You fix the current issues with the Horseshoe without tearing up the whole structure, and you add in revenue-generating suites on top (probably for a much lower cost than more transformative options) to help pay for it.
try-2-png.43580


Tier 3 - Iowa Prototype ... The Iowa NEZ transformation is very popular here, and for good reason. They managed to build a nice new structure that is as close to the field as possible, creates an impressive amount of height, closes in the corners to trap noise and includes luxury suite areas to generate revenue but that actually seamlessly fit into the overall look and it distributes capacity in a really efficient way. I've said this before, but it is truly astonishing to me that the structure below has the SAME CAPACITY as our current Horseshoe, even though it looks much grander!
636118147105572950-RENDERING.JPG


kinnick-4.webp


Tier 4 - Home Run ... This is the dream if money really isn't short in any way. You build a "wall" of fans that helps close in the stadium, make the atmosphere more intimidating and help to trap noise. You also add in those revenue-generating suites on top to help get a return on this, and the exterior (either one of the options below would be great, but I actually like the one with the columns a lot more, personally) can honor the architecture of our classic stadium. I actually think this option is even better than Iowa's, as it tries to honor our traditional look. The ONLY thing I would change if I could is taking out the walkway in the middle three sections only to create that intimidating "wall of fans."
img_3056-jpeg.43565

Screen%20Shot%202016-09-21%20at%2011.08.03%20AM.png

illinifootball-performancecenter-master-jpg.36489
 
#90      
the Castle on Daniel
I saw the news and I hoped the $100M would go into improving the stadium, but I haven't looked into it until just now.

PLEASE LEVEL THE HORSESHOE TOMORROW AND THEN WE WANT THE NEZ REDONE! SEZ NEEDS TO BE VERTICAL!! VERTICAL BOWL IS WHAT WE WANT!
 

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    NEZ.png
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#92      
STLini25
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Back to the SEZ, I will reiterate that any improvement is awesome. The Horseshoe isn't an inherent problem because it's old ... East Main is old. It's a problem because it adds nothing to the stadium and even actively hurts the stadium. It's too far from the field, it packs the maximum number of fans into the smallest area possible (the opposite of what modern stadiums do), it slopes back too gradually to add the necessary height to make the stadium look complete and its architecture (specifically the exterior) is jarringly out of place compared to the beauty of the rest of the stadium. So, even just bringing the stands down to field level and touching up the back would be a HUGE improvement. With that in mind, I see the SEZ plans in these tiers.

Tier 1 - Bare Minimum ... If literally nothing else is done, we need to fill in the odd gap behind the end zone by bringing the first row down to grass level (similarly to the sections on either side of the Horseshoe) and add some rows behind the current last row to create some height. We haven't had a track in decades, so the front fix should have been done with temporary bleachers yesterday! Ideally, both of these are permanent seats that also touch up that area massively, internal and external. This is the fix if it is determined that we don't want to mess with removing more than we have to of the existing Horseshoe structure and can't get things to work behind the SEZ with the street or something.
View attachment 43589

Tier 2 - Add in Some Suites ... This is the LSU example I posted the other day. You fix the current issues with the Horseshoe without tearing up the whole structure, and you add in revenue-generating suites on top (probably for a much lower cost than more transformative options) to help pay for it.
try-2-png.43580


Tier 3 - Iowa Prototype ... The Iowa NEZ transformation is very popular here, and for good reason. They managed to build a nice new structure that is as close to the field as possible, creates an impressive amount of height, closes in the corners to trap noise and includes luxury suite areas to generate revenue but that actually seamlessly fit into the overall look and it distributes capacity in a really efficient way. I've said this before, but it is truly astonishing to me that the structure below has the SAME CAPACITY as our current Horseshoe, even though it looks much grander!
636118147105572950-RENDERING.JPG


kinnick-4.webp


Tier 4 - Home Run ... This is the dream if money really isn't short in any way. You build a "wall" of fans that helps close in the stadium, make the atmosphere more intimidating and help to trap noise. You also add in those revenue-generating suites on top to help get a return on this, and the exterior (either one of the options below would be great, but I actually like the one with the columns a lot more, personally) can honor the architecture of our classic stadium. I actually think this option is even better than Iowa's, as it tries to honor our traditional look. The ONLY thing I would change if I could is taking out the walkway in the middle three sections only to create that intimidating "wall of fans."
img_3056-jpeg.43565

Screen%20Shot%202016-09-21%20at%2011.08.03%20AM.png

illinifootball-performancecenter-master-jpg.36489
Click to expand...
Fighter of the Nightman - Great post and pics.

Any idea on capacity of those designs. I don’t see capacity going above 70k. It’s just not needed.

I like 1 and 4. 2 looks too massive and 3 is ugly. I could see something like 1 with a large “party deck” at the top with GA seating and concessions. Maybe a walkway over the street to parking at AH.
 
#94      
the Castle on Daniel
I do think we should move quickly on the SEZ, but that's honestly the last opportunity to increase the seating capacity probably ever. I like the 2014 SEZ render and I v much like the AI generated colonnade concept for the NEZ. Not to be a traditionalist because I understand why people want additional screens/scoreboards, but I feel they take away from the grandeur of the stadium if there are too many.

I agree capacity at 70k is a great target. Attendance has been on a major upswing per wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gies_Memorial_Stadium

Impressive crowds in the 80s. Before my time. Would be cool to see nearly 80k people in the stands.
 
#95      
sacraig
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not disputing that the NEZ are great seats, but I don't know how it could be argued it is the ideal place for our student section. It seems PERFECTLY set up to be a seating area for families, possibly reworked to have some tiers that have concessions or little patio areas ... not for students. When it comes to the student section, the view from the first row shouldn't be our biggest priority ... it should be putting them where they will have the biggest effect on the game, most notably trapping their noise (they're objectively the loudest fans), and the NEZ might be the worst spot for that.

I also don't get why it's so outrageous to move them back somewhere else, lol. They were literally in East Main for the VAST majority of our history, no? The abnormal situation is them being where they are now. Literally every other area of the stadium has more infrastructure around it to trap noise, including the Horseshoe (despite the other things I hate about it). I think there are a lot more sections to work with here than people realize...

Football_SeatingMap_2023_7uSwE.jpg

For starters, , the visiting fans should have been moved out of Section 109 frickin' yesterday ... put them in 208 and 209 like other programs do. There is ZERO good argument against this. Why let Purdue's and USC's pep bands influence our atmosphere? Know where the Marching Illini was at the Big House in 2022? The last row. I would also argue that 110, 111, 112, 113 and 114 in the Horseshoe are objectively worse seats than the NEZ, and the students should be swapped with them, allowing "general fans" to take over the NEZ altogether. You then just have to probably replace the fans in 108 to get enough space for the students, no?

You're probably right that it won't change anytime soon, but I don't think that's fine ... our students have been great, and they could have a better opportunity to impact the game if they were in other sections. As for the Marching Illini, as long as there is that hideously pointless empty space in front of the Horseshoe, that is where the MI should be, IMO ... fill it with SOMETHING, and put them in an area where they'd be closer to the action.
Click to expand...
To add to this, Texas A&M dedicates the entire three levels of the East side of Kyle Field to students.

2023-kyle-field-seating-terms-map.webp


That's 38,000 sideline seats worth of lost revenue at SEC prices. Yet we hand wring about two sections.
 
#98      
Fighter of the Nightman
STLini25 said:
Fighter of the Nightman - Great post and pics.

Any idea on capacity of those designs. I don’t see capacity going above 70k. It’s just not needed.

I like 1 and 4. 2 looks too massive and 3 is ugly. I could see something like 1 with a large “party deck” at the top with GA seating and concessions. Maybe a walkway over the street to parking at AH.
Click to expand...
I should say that I think any renovation should remove at least SOME of the "invisible" seats in East Main that are underneath the East Balcony overhang. A brick wall on the east side to match the West Main setup would help to restore symmetry to Memorial Stadium that was lost in the 2007 renovation, and it would (IIRC) free up an astonishing 7k seats to work with for both end zones!

Before - 7k Seats Under East Balcony Overhang
Pano 1.png


After - Seats Walled Off and 7k of Capacity Removed
Pano Reno 1.png


If you did that, you have a lot of wiggle room for making cool structures in the SEZ and eventually NEZ. You could build something with a capacity of 20k in the Horseshoe and only bring our total capacity up to like 63k or 64k. However, let's assume everything but the Horseshoe stays as is.

Tier 1 - I remember hearing one time that the old temporary bleachers that went back behind the Horseshoe had about 2k seats. So, I'll assume my more filled-in rendering has about 3.5k in back and 3k in front. That would bring total capacity to a little over 67k.

Tier 2 - This one is actually a lower capacity, it just looks a lot cooler and provides better height. This would only involve putting those 3k in front, so total capacity of 63,670.

Tier 3 - This one is actually the easiest calculation ... Iowa's new end zone, while it looks much more impressive, seats about the same as the current Horseshoe (due to how inefficiently the Horseshoe has its capacity spread out). So, you remove the Horseshoe, add the Iowa-style end zone structure and you are still at 60,670.

Tier 4 - This one is difficult to judge. However, I flat-out guarantee you that those seats aren't as cramped in as the Horseshoe. While much taller and adding both seats in front and height behind, I bet the NET increase in capacity is actually no more than 5k. If Iowa's structure only seats about 10k, that rendering of Memorial Stadium cannot seat much more than 15k ... so let's call it a net gain of 5k, and our new capacity would be 65,670.

TL;DR

Most of these new renovations (besides Tier 1, which literally adds the same style of seats to the current Horseshoe) will not actually add much to capacity, because newer stadium designs don't cram people in as much, and more of the structure is taken up by suites, walkways, more aisles, etc. So even without removing any of those East Main seats, we can build some pretty darn cool stuff while staying comfortably under 70k. If you start messing around with removing those 7k "hidden" East Main seats, you can all of a sudden build REALLY impressive structures in both the SEA and NEZ that completely enclose the stadium and yet don't get us anywhere near above 70k!
 
#100      
STLini25
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I should say that I think any renovation should remove at least SOME of the "invisible" seats in East Main that are underneath the East Balcony overhang. A brick wall on the east side to match the West Main setup would help to restore symmetry to Memorial Stadium that was lost in the 2007 renovation, and it would (IIRC) free up an astonishing 7k seats to work with for both end zones!

Before - 7k Seats Under East Balcony Overhang
View attachment 43598

After - Seats Walled Off and 7k of Capacity Removed
View attachment 43599

If you did that, you have a lot of wiggle room for making cool structures in the SEZ and eventually NEZ. You could build something with a capacity of 20k in the Horseshoe and only bring our total capacity up to like 63k or 64k. However, let's assume everything but the Horseshoe stays as is.

Tier 1 - I remember hearing one time that the old temporary bleachers that went back behind the Horseshoe had about 2k seats. So, I'll assume my more filled-in rendering has about 3.5k in back and 3k in front. That would bring total capacity to a little over 67k.

Tier 2 - This one is actually a lower capacity, it just looks a lot cooler and provides better height. This would only involve putting those 3k in front, so total capacity of 63,670.

Tier 3 - This one is actually the easiest calculation ... Iowa's new end zone, while it looks much more impressive, seats about the same as the current Horseshoe (due to how inefficiently the Horseshoe has its capacity spread out). So, you remove the Horseshoe, add the Iowa-style end zone structure and you are still at 60,670.

Tier 4 - This one is difficult to judge. However, I flat-out guarantee you that those seats aren't as cramped in as the Horseshoe. While much taller and adding both seats in front and height behind, I bet the NET increase in capacity is actually no more than 5k. If Iowa's structure only seats about 10k, that rendering of Memorial Stadium cannot seat much more than 15k ... so let's call it a net gain of 5k, and our new capacity would be 65,670.

TL;DR

Most of these new renovations (besides Tier 1, which literally adds the same style of seats to the current Horseshoe) will not actually add much to capacity, because newer stadium designs don't cram people in as much, and more of the structure is taken up by suites, walkways, more aisles, etc. So even without removing any of those East Main seats, we can build some pretty darn cool stuff while staying comfortably under 70k. If you start messing around with removing those 7k "hidden" East Main seats, you can all of a sudden build REALLY impressive structures in both the SEA and NEZ that completely enclose the stadium and yet don't get us anywhere near above 70k!
Click to expand...
My guess is the focus would be adding premium seating like suites and keeping capacity between 60-70k.
 
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