Michigan 13, Western Michigan 12

#426      
Even if the right call was technically made, the B1G just looks so bad through all of this, with their refusal to acknowledge any of their mistakes and inconsistencies throughout this whole process. Great, there are two clocks, whatever those are. Is it the scorebug plus the stadium clock? The stadium plus the network's camera pointed at the stadium clock? Another variation? Saturday, you implied there was a 3rd clock only review officials could see, so what is that about? Who knows because they refuse to clarify.

Our official review protocol says that if those clocks aren't synced properly, they are supposed to default to whatever the networks have access to. This makes perfect sense. It's a better look for the legitimacy of the system to use the clock that millions of people can see rather than the 10 guys in the replay center. This protocol wasn't followed, whether knowingly or by accident (I'm guessing they knew but didn't stop to check what the protocol was). and has now added to the existing controversy because now everyone knows they didn't follow the protocol, in addition to the backlash over the previous 72 hours, which was the whole reason for the protocol to exist in the first place.

At this point, the B1G needs to come out with transparency. What exactly happened, why, and how is it being avoided in the future? There's no protocol (lots of protocols in this situation) for changing the result of a game retroactively. That fact has been spreading around the internet since the MAC said they were going to appeal. But that shouldn't give the conference a pass to sweep this under the rug like it isn't a legitimate controversy. They threw NBC under the bus for having the "wrong" clock just for it to come out they were supposed to use the same clock that NBC had access to, not some other one. Screw it, add a segment into Big Noon that is a full tour of the replay center where they explain how it all works and what they do in detail.

Transparency. Otherwise, most of CFB fandom isn't going to ever take official reviews by B1G refs seriously again. They'll think they're cheating, inept, or both.
 
#427      
Where is that quote from? An official source or a pundit?
Quite honestly, I AI'd it, but it was indeed confirmed by the Big Ten. When it's not a written consideration in the rule book and there's absolutely no precedent.....it's the only conclusion. Add the money factor into consideration that the Big Ten would pretty much have Michigan eliminated from playoff contention in week one.
 
#428      
B1G has no option other than to hold firm on the lame a$$ position of two clocks .

you can bet that Petitti is plenty upset about it . makes him & the league looks like amateurs ina big boy game
He's needs to be mad at himself for not firing Bill Carollo.
 
#429      
*IF* all this Zaprudering were showing proof of what the NBC broadcast purported to show, that the clock was at zeroes well before the ball was near its eventual recipient, I do actually think they would have to reverse this result.

But it's not showing that, so I don't expect this to happen.

But I personally go back to the very beginning of all this, if you pull up the original source of the review feed (tab labeled "ROH" on the bottom right, you can just click on it)


A beat after the play ends the replay official jumps in and frantically yells "Hold them! Hold the field!" to stop both teams from filing onto the field to wrap up a game both sides and all the on-field officials understood to be over to the naked eye.

My view above all else is that in full consideration of all factors and what had been seen on the field, a good, experienced official who has watched an endless number of football games just knows not to do that. That was my immediate gut instinct in the moment the second they started reviewing it.

And I understand those officials are bound to follow the NCAA rule book, but discovering that the NFL rulebook explicitly agrees with my instinct has really cemented the courage of my convictions on this one.

We can lawyer this thing to the molten center of the earth, but it all just comes down to that's not football, it's a game of inches not a game of milliseconds, you don't re-start a game in that scenario.
 
#430      
A beat after the play ends the replay official jumps in and frantically yells "Hold them! Hold the field!" to stop both teams from filing onto the field to wrap up a game both sides and all the on-field officials understood to be over to the naked eye.

My view above all else is that in full consideration of all factors and what had been seen on the field, a good, experienced official who has watched an endless number of football games just knows not to do that.
That was my immediate gut instinct in the moment the second they started reviewing it.

And I understand those officials are bound to follow the NCAA rule book, but discovering that the NFL rulebook explicitly agrees with my instinct has really cemented the courage of my convictions on this one.

We can lawyer this thing to the molten center of the earth, but it all just comes down to that's not football, it's a game of inches not a game of milliseconds, you don't re-start a game in that scenario.
It seems you've hit on something crucial here. Perhaps the root of the problem is that the replay official feels empowered to behave in this manner. Doesn't that power vest solely in the referee (the head official)?

It's an important point. What's the intended chain of command?

Important questions, but I'm still stuck on the politics of the matter: the fact that Michigan is getting absolutely bodied nationwide on this one, despite having done nothing wrong.

I love it.
 
#431      
i dun
*IF* all this Zaprudering were showing proof of what the NBC broadcast purported to show, that the clock was at zeroes well before the ball was near its eventual recipient, I do actually think they would have to reverse this result.

But it's not showing that, so I don't expect this to happen.

But I personally go back to the very beginning of all this, if you pull up the original source of the review feed (tab labeled "ROH" on the bottom right, you can just click on it)


A beat after the play ends the replay official jumps in and frantically yells "Hold them! Hold the field!" to stop both teams from filing onto the field to wrap up a game both sides and all the on-field officials understood to be over to the naked eye.

My view above all else is that in full consideration of all factors and what had been seen on the field, a good, experienced official who has watched an endless number of football games just knows not to do that. That was my immediate gut instinct in the moment the second they started reviewing it.

And I understand those officials are bound to follow the NCAA rule book, but discovering that the NFL rulebook explicitly agrees with my instinct has really cemented the courage of my convictions on this one.

We can lawyer this thing to the molten center of the earth, but it all just comes down to that's not football, it's a game of inches not a game of milliseconds, you don't re-start a game in that scenario.
i dunno, seems plausible that the ability to sense tenth to hundredths of a second timing discrepancies is part of the officiating onboarding process

giphy (1).gif
 
#433      
Sooo.. Is this hitherto unknown 'secret' clock only used in scUM games, or does it apply across the entire B1G? Just curious . . .
 
#434      
I think all of this discourse, both here and nationwide, proves one thing: there was no indisputable evidence to overturn the original call on the field. It's impossible to see, with the resolution of the images given, when the ball touches the WM player with any concrete certainty.
How many times have we seen a review that looks 95% to go against the call in the field and it gets upheld?
 
#436      
This event of a failed game ending was/is a wider test of integrity. You have a chance to do the right thing in front of the World and make things right, or not. And your response says a great deal about ā€˜you’... Western Michigan’s Conference doesn’t come off looking too good either. We know they want the big paydays going forward and aren’t going to rock the boat too much. But the weak response to an obvious egregious error does not show much pride or ability to stand up for the teams in your Conference.

The above is my post from September 7. I was not at all happy with the weak MAC Conference response to this event and their timid compliance to what happened.

WELL, guess what. Maybe they've got some fight left in them after all. Here's a new quote from the MAC:

ā€œAfter further study and investigation, it is now evident that replay protocol was not properly followed in determining whether time remained on the game clock at the conclusion of the Western Michigan vs. Michigan football game... the circumstances of this game are extraordinary. The final outcome was directly affected by a replay officiating error resulting from the failure to follow an established and specific protocol governing precisely this type of end-of-half timing situation.ā€
– Jon A. Steinbrecher, MAC conference

Well, that's a start. NOW demand that the Game result officially be reversed in the spirit of Fair Play and restitution. If not, demand that the Big 10 expel Michigan (we can dream...).
 
#438      
ScUM being hammered in the court of public opinion (and the B1G too!) . . . I LOVE IT!

Angry Loki GIF
Through all of this, Michigan has to defend themselves over a mysterious last second win over Western Michigan. This wasn’t Oklahoma, Ohio State or even Illinois. They’re having to justify a 13-12 win over Little Brother’s little brother.
 
#440      
I'm not taking credit for this, as someone else mentioned it a couple days ago...but it HAS to be the stadium clock governing, and not some replay-only clock. The players on the field are using and reacting to the time they can see! What if they stopped playing as time ran out only to find out that the game was actually still going? I realize this scenario is less likely in football, where the duration of the final play can exceed the expired timer, but here we are.

B1G looks bad here (from their original weak explanation). My only surprise is that this was not yet another Illinois game where similar happened.
 
#441      
I'm not taking credit for this, as someone else mentioned it a couple days ago...but it HAS to be the stadium clock governing, and not some replay-only clock. The players on the field are using and reacting to the time they can see!
Resolving this problem is a big part of the reason for the development of the light-up backboards in basketball.

I really, really hope CFB sees the wisdom in the NFL rule rather than trying to travel down that path.

My fear is that the opposite might occur, and litigating tenths of a second on replay in games that should already be over might poison all levels of football the way it has done basketball.

Don't want it, don't need it.
 
#443      
I don't understand how the above Zach Linfield video shows the play with the game clock and it seems to show there being 1 second on the clock at the time when the ball was touched, but the TV feed with the embedded game clock clearly shows the clock going down to 0 before the ball is touched.

On the TV feed, is there some sort of lag between the video and the game clock?? How could this be?
 
#444      
#446      
I don't understand how the above Zach Linfield video shows the play with the game clock and it seems to show there being 1 second on the clock at the time when the ball was touched, but the TV feed with the embedded game clock clearly shows the clock going down to 0 before the ball is touched.

On the TV feed, is there some sort of lag between the video and the game clock?? How could this be?
Sucked me back in.

This is what I’ve been yelling from the top of my sad little hill….theres evidently a sync issue somewhere between either clocks or cameras and why I’ve been clamoring for a shot of both the play and stadium clock in the same frame and same camera.

This second video of this is even better than the first that was shared earlier.

I’m gonna go back and curl up on the top of my little hill again
 
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#447      
Sucked me back in.

This is what I’ve been yelling from the top of my sad little hill….theres evidently a sync issue somewhere between either clocks or cameras and why I’ve been clamoring for a shot of both the play and stadium clock in the same frame and same camera.

This second video of this is even better than the first that was shared earlier.

I’m gonna go back and curl up on the top of my little hill again
Just to add a wrinkle to Sad Little Hill, remember this other factoid, the exact, to-the-frame sync of the live NBC broadcast scorebug clock to the stadium clock (in what would have been the opposite endzone for the final play, behind Michigan), just a couple minutes earlier.


It's all quite the mystery, though I've made my position clear on how little practical importance the metaphysics of whether ball had touched arm with 0:01 showing actually should have
 
#448      
SB: Your little hill is just fine, it's not sad at all... we love you, man!

The Jonathon Christman video above pretty clearly shows there was, indeed, 1 second left.

However, while I can understand the Jumbotron display lagging the game clock, I cannot understand why there would be a similar lag on the TV feed. If the TV feed was simultaneously collecting the video of the play and the game clock on the scoreboard, they must/should be in synch, but they are clearly not.

Unless this is figured out and resolved, this issue will crop up again, regardless of any new NCAA rules put in effect.

scUM still sucks...
 
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