Michigan 84, Illinois 70 Postgame

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#326      
You are making a decision Andre or Tre - I'll go with Andre/Jake/Hummer (when Z and Tomi are on the floor together. Tre fought with Brad... no one needs the sideshow.

Same with Morez v. Mirk.

Morez got the better of us tonight, but I am very, very happy with Mirk.

Sometimes the opposition is just that much better. That certainly was the case tonight.

As for your criticisms of Brad. I can say this as a 60 year avid fan of Illini basketball. Blow it out your...

(1) The guy wants to be here... not build towards someplace else.
(2) He understands the modern game (roster turnover, NIL, change in rules and how the game is played) and is credited by most as being a leader in this area.
(3) He is 11th over the past 7 years in NCAA wins.
(4) It's pretty clear what he is trying to do: build a mental tenacity personafied by rebounding and defense. We are still not at the level that UCONN showed us a couple years ago. However, we are closer to that level than we have been in 30 years. Most of the people not here (I can give you list and yes I have tracked them) we are better off, with them not here. You want Skyy Clark, Jayden Epps, Sencire Harris, Dre LG, Dain Dainja, Amani Hansberry and Nicollo Moretti (those are just the recent transfers)? They're yours.

The guy is able to recruit **** star talent and then replace them with players that are either more talented or a better fit and win 20 games every season. There are only 10 coaches in America who are better at that than he is.

Look at the skill levels the people (I hope) returning have. That is alot to be optimistic about.

I don't get it. Lou Henson was the only other modern day coach more consistent as Brad. You may not remember this, but similar to Brad, everyone wanted to run Lou out of town as they thought (and continue to see) our program should be on a par with the names similar to Indiana, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCONN, UCLA, Kansas, MSU, Louisville or Houston.

It took John Wooden 14 seasons reach his first Final Four with UCLA.
Dean Smith won his first NCAA championship in his 22nd season at UNC.
It took Mike Krzyzewski 11 seasons win his first NCAA championship at Duke.
It took Jim Calhoun 13 seasons the University of Connecticut to win his first NCAA National Championship.
Tom Izzo has won 1 NCAA championship.
It took Bill Self 15 seasons a head coach to win his first NCAA championship. It took him another 14 years to win a second.

Brad has been trying to get Illinois to a consistency level, getting the final 16 on a fairly regular basis. You don't win championships without getting your talent level (and mentality) to the upper echelon level first. But other than the Henson era - we don't have the legacy (and donors) the other schools have. But we are making up some of the distance.

Brad has a better understanding of that and is trying create a fit a Illinois. If you don't think that has built a base and we are actually improving off the base, maybe you need to find another school or team to root for.
Meme Reaction GIF by Robert E Blackmon
 
#327      
Tre has been at a new school every year since his freshman year of high school (quite literally 8 schools in 8 years). He was put in the doghouse at times last year because, candidly, he wasn't very good - no need to overthink why on the low minutes sometimes.

Tre being a flight risk is on Brad taking that risk just as much if he decided he wasn't a fit on the roster, to be clear. But i thought it was apparent Illinois wanted him back.
Trey white wasn’t very good?!?!? Pfft

A guy or two haven’t been very good this year and last year as well and still got PT.
 
#328      
The long winning streak was a bit of fools gold. The best wins were at PU and At Nebby. Both of those have fallen off since those games. And PU took a generational heater from Wagler. I bought the hype in the moment but it was a mirage.

This is not meant to be a backhanded deal.

But how awesome is it we’re to the point as a program where we can shrug off ripping 13 straight, including at Mackey against a top 3 seed, and preseason number 1. And Nebraska who has gone 18–1 and 15-2 at home 2 of the past 3 years.
 
#329      
Our chemistry and flow early in the year looked incredible.... What happened?

Another question: Who do you "mismatch hunt" when there's no mismatch?

Do we really have the best offensive efficiency numbers in the KenPom era? Ken better change his metrics, sorry.
One possible explanation is that at this time in the season there is a lot of film out there on everybody.
 
#330      
Simple take, there was almost zero chance we beat this team with anything less than our “A” game. We brought out a D game. Maybe D-.

So the loss isn’t so much the concern as we aren’t bringing an A game on our own floor.
Three times now.
 
#333      
Mm.. I knew they were going to be tough. But I've also watched them play subpar at times this year before ultimately pulling out the win. In other to flip that script, we needed to shoot it well. We didn't.

We actually executed very well to get Cadeau his second foul early. A real dream scenario for us. But then we couldn't hit open threes or create good looks inside. And of course we aren't built to beat physical teams. Never have been. We have a good S&C program but how many times have we ever gotten guys who *play* physical basketball? Kofi is really the only guy since Brad has been here who has been truly dominant inside.
Morez Johnson?
 
#334      
The long winning streak was a bit of fools gold. The best wins were at PU and At Nebby. Both of those have fallen off since those games. And PU took a generational heater from Wagler. I bought the hype in the moment but it was a mirage.
No! It’s insanely tough to rip off 10 straight wins in the Big Ten. Especially when half of them are on the road. I’m playing forum cop and handing you a fat citation along with anyone trying to downplay that. Daddy Brad wins games in this league. This is not news people! 👮🏻‍♂️🛑
 
#335      
You are making a decision Andre or Tre - I'll go with Andre/Jake/Hummer (when Z and Tomi are on the floor together. Tre fought with Brad... no one needs the sideshow.

Same with Morez v. Mirk.

Morez got the better of us tonight, but I am very, very happy with Mirk.

Sometimes the opposition is just that much better. That certainly was the case tonight.

As for your criticisms of Brad. I can say this as a 60 year avid fan of Illini basketball. Blow it out your...

(1) The guy wants to be here... not build towards someplace else.
(2) He understands the modern game (roster turnover, NIL, change in rules and how the game is played) and is credited by most as being a leader in this area.
(3) He is 11th over the past 7 years in NCAA wins.
(4) It's pretty clear what he is trying to do: build a mental tenacity personafied by rebounding and defense. We are still not at the level that UCONN showed us a couple years ago. However, we are closer to that level than we have been in 30 years. Most of the people not here (I can give you list and yes I have tracked them) we are better off, with them not here. You want Skyy Clark, Jayden Epps, Sencire Harris, Dre LG, Dain Dainja, Amani Hansberry and Nicollo Moretti (those are just the recent transfers)? They're yours.

The guy is able to recruit **** star talent and then replace them with players that are either more talented or a better fit and win 20 games every season. There are only 10 coaches in America who are better at that than he is.

Look at the skill levels the people (I hope) returning have. That is alot to be optimistic about.

I don't get it. Lou Henson was the only other modern day coach more consistent as Brad. You may not remember this, but similar to Brad, everyone wanted to run Lou out of town as they thought (and continue to see) our program should be on a par with the names similar to Indiana, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCONN, UCLA, Kansas, MSU, Louisville or Houston.

It took John Wooden 14 seasons reach his first Final Four with UCLA.
Dean Smith won his first NCAA championship in his 22nd season at UNC.
It took Mike Krzyzewski 11 seasons win his first NCAA championship at Duke.
It took Jim Calhoun 13 seasons the University of Connecticut to win his first NCAA National Championship.
Tom Izzo has won 1 NCAA championship.
It took Bill Self 15 seasons a head coach to win his first NCAA championship. It took him another 14 years to win a second.

Brad has been trying to get Illinois to a consistency level, getting the final 16 on a fairly regular basis. You don't win championships without getting your talent level (and mentality) to the upper echelon level first. But other than the Henson era - we don't have the legacy (and donors) the other schools have. But we are making up some of the distance.

Brad has a better understanding of that and is trying create a fit a Illinois. If you don't think that has built a base and we are actually improving off the base, maybe you need to find another school or team to root for.
As to your assumption that I am "criticizing Brad," and as a 50 year avid fan (no one is a bigger fan) blow it out yours! I never said Brad doesn't belong here or possess the attributes you listed. I agree with them all. I was simply making an observation that there has been a lot of turnover. That is a fact supported by your long list of guys I never stated I "wanted".

You, nor anyone else, will tell me "who to root for." I've put in the time as an Illini fan AND supporter.

Again, blow it out yours. If you don't like an opinion, scroll on......
 
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#336      
You’re right … Teams have bad games … Players have bad games …

And sometimes … It all comes together …

View attachment 47901
Love that team
But come on that team had some warts that drove us crazy too

B10 was a bit weaker and didn’t have a team like Michigan in their way

They’ve got the same b10 record wel end up with most likely and worse overall unless we drop one of these q3 games

That team lost 3 quad 2 games by double digits

The worst team we lost to this year was 37 ucla (NET) that team lost to FIVE teams lower than that lol

Less q1 wins

Will be a lower seed

And that team was led by 5th year seniors and an AA junior

So not sure why Wer acting like certain players of old were incapable of bad performances
 
#337      
Had to think about this one for a bit and yep, I'm pissed. I hate this so much and my illusions about us being a title contender have pretty much been erased unless we turn this 💩 storm of a month around FAST. This is NOT the same team from the whole season to until a few weeks ago and I'm legit questioning if this isn't gonna be yet another promising BU team with infinite potential and promise that gets bounced in the Round of 32 yet again...

I hate Michigan and them winning the B10 on OUR floor, I hate Morez Johnson for being a traitor, I hate college basketball for becoming a league of mercenaries that seem to only care about going to whomever is the highest bidder each year, I hate that there's no loyalty anymore from really any players besides a select few, I hate that I care so much about teams that do nothing but break my heart year in and year out and other fan bases get to experience the joys of winning it all, I hate that I was raised to care so much about stoopid sports, and I just hate everything right now. Get off my lawn.
 
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#339      
I’ll say one last thing. I’m shocked the amount of people that say Michigan is the better team, okay maybe they are but not by this much. We got blown out at home, it wasn’t even close. We played AWFUL on both ends of the floor. You have to be able to win these types of games in order to get to the final game of the season and as of now we don’t look the part. We rolled over hard. Not one player played hard, zero leadership, zero energy. Underwood sat on the bench and pouted and made zero changes. I’m just not good with that, I’m tired of hearing credit to the other team. Now this team is going to learn a lesson from this? It’s the end of the season, lessons should be learned. The lesson was supposed to be learned from the ucla game. I had high hopes for this team and still do but come on.

2-4?? With a team that other coaches and media saying can win it all? That’s COACHING. Have your players ready to play.
Michigan is probably 10 points better than us. Home or away since we are a lousy home team but a good road team. Michigan is top 10 in offense and top 10 in defense. Illinois is tops in offense but our defense is like # 95. Basically Michigan was goin to get an open shot in our man to man defense. Probably should have played more zone but McKenney hit a couple of threes so sort of picking your poison. I agree with you about Brad not making adjustments during the game but John Wooden and Phil Jackson also coached the same way as Brad. John Wooden worked his players in practice but basically let the players figure it out during the games. of course it doesn't hurt to have players like Bill Walton and KAJ.
 
#340      
You are making a decision Andre or Tre - I'll go with Andre/Jake/Hummer (when Z and Tomi are on the floor together. Tre fought with Brad... no one needs the sideshow.

Same with Morez v. Mirk.

Morez got the better of us tonight, but I am very, very happy with Mirk.

Sometimes the opposition is just that much better. That certainly was the case tonight.

As for your criticisms of Brad. I can say this as a 60 year avid fan of Illini basketball. Blow it out your...

(1) The guy wants to be here... not build towards someplace else.
(2) He understands the modern game (roster turnover, NIL, change in rules and how the game is played) and is credited by most as being a leader in this area.
(3) He is 11th over the past 7 years in NCAA wins.
(4) It's pretty clear what he is trying to do: build a mental tenacity personafied by rebounding and defense. We are still not at the level that UCONN showed us a couple years ago. However, we are closer to that level than we have been in 30 years. Most of the people not here (I can give you list and yes I have tracked them) we are better off, with them not here. You want Skyy Clark, Jayden Epps, Sencire Harris, Dre LG, Dain Dainja, Amani Hansberry and Nicollo Moretti (those are just the recent transfers)? They're yours.

The guy is able to recruit **** star talent and then replace them with players that are either more talented or a better fit and win 20 games every season. There are only 10 coaches in America who are better at that than he is.

Look at the skill levels the people (I hope) returning have. That is alot to be optimistic about.

I don't get it. Lou Henson was the only other modern day coach more consistent as Brad. You may not remember this, but similar to Brad, everyone wanted to run Lou out of town as they thought (and continue to see) our program should be on a par with the names similar to Indiana, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCONN, UCLA, Kansas, MSU, Louisville or Houston.

It took John Wooden 14 seasons reach his first Final Four with UCLA.
Dean Smith won his first NCAA championship in his 22nd season at UNC.
It took Mike Krzyzewski 11 seasons win his first NCAA championship at Duke.
It took Jim Calhoun 13 seasons the University of Connecticut to win his first NCAA National Championship.
Tom Izzo has won 1 NCAA championship.
It took Bill Self 15 seasons a head coach to win his first NCAA championship. It took him another 14 years to win a second.

Brad has been trying to get Illinois to a consistency level, getting the final 16 on a fairly regular basis. You don't win championships without getting your talent level (and mentality) to the upper echelon level first. But other than the Henson era - we don't have the legacy (and donors) the other schools have. But we are making up some of the distance.

Brad has a better understanding of that and is trying create a fit a Illinois. If you don't think that has built a base and we are actually improving off the base, maybe you need to find another school or team to root for.
we have one second weekend run since he's been here- 2017... if we don't make the sweet 16 this year, that's 9 years with 1... not far off a decade with one sweet 16 plus appearance. Feel how you want to feel- I refuse to accept that as good enough
 
#341      
Brad at the podium acting all pissed that we had no toughness, leadership or defense tonight- My dude- we gave up a 23 point lead and played HORRIFIC defense against UCLA and we didn't get the whole toughness/defense thing addressed in the almost week we had to prepare for this game?
 
#343      
I ask this sincerely because I keep seeing it (again) repeated often lately: is there clear proof Morez actually signed something for a second year with Illinois before backing out and going to Michigan - all within the week following the season?

Also, Brad seemed to indicate he doesn't really value pursuing/winning a conference season championship because of the lack of balance in schedules and instead plays more toward analytics and March. Maybe it shouldn't, but hearing him state that surprised me. I wonder if that was a comment stemming from frustration/anger regarding the way we played (have been playing) or if that is an ingrained sentiment and a core principle.

Nevertheless, on to Oregon.
 
#346      
Love that team
But come on that team had some warts that drove us crazy too

B10 was a bit weaker and didn’t have a team like Michigan in their way

They’ve got the same b10 record wel end up with most likely and worse overall unless we drop one of these q3 games

That team lost 3 quad 2 games by double digits

The worst team we lost to this year was 37 ucla (NET) that team lost to FIVE teams lower than that lol

Less q1 wins

Will be a lower seed

And that team was led by 5th year seniors and an AA junior

So not sure why Wer acting like certain players of old were incapable of bad performances
I'm not as certain that we had a bad game as much as Michigan was that good. And given that my professional life is 100% systematic and quantitative and I have extensive experience the field, I'm not a fan of Net ratings (they are mathematically biased towards that 5 large schools) and Ken Pom "ratings" have (quantitatively speaking) more subjectivity to them than a simple average, I will go with the observations.

Michigan beat us to the glass, and more importantly have picked up on what other teams have done. Put the ball on the floor and use screeners to create either a roll, base line cut or kick out. Purdue was the first to do it. Every team we have played since had tried to follow. But you can only go as far as your talent will take you. By bringing our bigs out to stop the dribble, we helped Morez Johnson look (he did the rest on his own) like the second best player on the floor.

We are better in zone. But I know our coaching staff only uses it sparingly. So that is going to be the debate over the last 2 games of the regular season.
 
#347      
Kind of exposed that this years team has a lot of the same issues as last year.

Just soft on the interior and lacking the athleticism to compete with true top tier teams. Live and die by the 3 and offense that tends to stagnate into too much iso stuff.

Also, Brad seems completely incapable of figuring out a rotation. 2021 was the last year it seemed like he was able to effectively juggle a bench.
 
#349      
Andrej Stojakovic played 12 minutes and barely did anything at all, let alone score a point.
Is he going to turn into this years Tre White where he gets iced out down the stretch and then goes on to player very well for a power conference team next year.
 
#350      
I said it before and I’ll say it again - there’s very similar vibes here to the ‘24 season…lost to a stinky Penn State team the same night as our recent UCLA loss and then went on to lose to a better Purdue team at home. People rightfully had the same questions about our defense and toughness going into postseason play. Let’s see what happens
Great observation. What is the common denominator?

Hint: It's not the players
 
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