Michigan 84, Illinois 70 Postgame

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#426      
SescIllini
Yeah, I have no problem with kids shopping around for the best offer. If the rumors are true of him signing or giving a meaningful commitment then bailing, then I feel differently.
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I recently did this to pursue a job that fit my skillset much better, was located very close to my house and paid much more + more benefits. I have less angst knowing that the company fudged the truth about how I would be utilized and the leadership was incompetent.

Now I work with much smarter/talented people and get a fat paycheck. In the end those bothered by this will move on and don't mean much in my life.
 
#427      
Curbelo Fanboy
I admittedly did not watch or listen to any of game last night. On a trip to attend a funeral. Really didn’t have the desire to even stream it after the ucla debacle.

But games like this certainly don’t help the Krush involvement. Brads teams get whacked at home at least once per year and they haven’t won a home super high leverage game in a long time. That beats a fanbase down after a while. Especially when u get rolled. It’s happened last year with usc and Maryland 2 years ago Penn State and then Michigan this year.
 
#429      
Goillinikobd
Tomi… 7&4 and 1-6 from 3 doesn’t cut it
Z…0 rebounds?
Andrej no show

Brad’s thing is “how to win games when shots don’t fall”. We’re not seeing it with those guys. If we have any dreams of sweet 16 and beyond, we need these dudes to wake up.
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For EVERY game, because a bad night in the NCAA and you are all out looking for your next paycheck.
 
#430      
Justan opinion
Just because you have no regrets doesn't mean others don't have regrets. Going to the highest bidder doesn't always mean that the grass is greener on the other side. All in all, Morez is still a traitor and a sellout who would've had a major role if he stuck around. An Illinois kid who had years of invested relationships with the coaching staff and his family/group convinced him to sellout to the almighty dollar. The vitriol he has gotten is well deserved as he's getting paid handsomely so with being paid comes with consequences. His decision proved he has no loyalty to years of invested relationships built up. His loyalty is to the almighty dollar
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So you think calling out a 18 yr old kid for being a traitor and a sellout is justified? He made a decision and changed his mind, not shocking that a teenager would do that.
 
#431      
1970 John
I know they’re better than us, but we have to compete harder in the paint. But they do have more interior depth.
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We can’t, not without learning how to put hands on arms without getting called for fouls.
 
#432      
OrangeBlue98
Illini2010-11 said:
We have a lot of size, but we saw a physically superior team on the other end. Not really sure what to make of tonight; we looked completely worn down with 10 minutes left. This is really the first time all season where we simply look outmatched, and when we had good defensive possesions, the ball seemed to find a way to Michigan.

Not quite the Duke level beating from last year, but given the timing of this game, next week with a pair of Quad 3 games will be essential to "get right".

Kind of crazy that Michigan dumped in Evanston for 30 minutes. They are really dominant when they decide to play.

We may not be championship caliber, but this team should still be able to compete in the second weekend of tourney. Unfortunately, hard to see Morez have so much easy success against us and to know that he likely is the missing piece to being championship caliber.

Really hard to be at 22-7 and feel like we may have hit the low point. On to next week.
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If Underwood really wants to win a national title, he has to admit his current roster construction and philosophy isn’t going to get it done.

I’m the first person to value skill in sports. I’ve gritted my teeth for years about how athleticism has taken over sports and we have lost a lot of the focus on skill.

But you can go too far the other way, and this Illinois team proves it. Unless Fletch can magically make everyone except Boswell 20% more athletic, this team’s ceiling is maybe Elite 8 and probably Sweet 16. As soon as they face a team with good athleticism, it’s game over.

It seems like Illinois’ desired comp is Gonzaga. With rare exception, they hit a ceiling in the tournament.
 
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#433      
HouTexIllini
AirTran said:
Defensively, we have to (1) either force the dribble away from the lane OR (2) play zone.
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This has been a problem all year and not just on PnR or with faster and smaller guards. The way we close out on 3s and just defensive posture alone has always allowed opponents in the lane to collapse the D.

People point to our overall defensive stats as a reason for lack of concern. But it has been an issue.
 
#434      
illini510
HouTexIllini said:
He just averaged 10.5 pts 5.5 rebounds, 1 to, and 50% from the field. He wasn’t perfect, but those numbers and his defense is better than a good player here and there.
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Your bar is pretty low then if you think those are the stats of a good player. Those are about the same stats that Tomi has this season and we all know he has regressed some since last year. Those are the stats of a serviceable piece. My eyes did not tell me that Tre was some fantastic player. He had a role on last year's team and his role was not the go-to player in most games. He is having a better season now but that is because his opportunities have increased with another program and he has taken another step in his progression. There is no guarantee that would've ever happened at Illinois. I personally like Andrej's upside more than Tre's upside. Much higher ceiling with Andrej
 
#435      
RedGrangeHelmet
That’s my problem with the staff. Trey didn’t fit and Dre doesnt bc they’re drivers and mid range shooters. Like duh, why go get them?

Petro doesn’t fit, Moretti didn’t fit, Booth didn’t fit, the other tall Frenchman, and on and on. It’s a little baffling.
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Don’t forget Brandin Podziemski didn’t Fit Brad Underwood “system” at Illinois but he fits The NBA and The Golden State Warriors nicely
 
#436      
HouTexIllini
AirTran said:
I'm not as certain that we had a bad game as much as Michigan was that good. And given that my professional life is 100% systematic and quantitative and I have extensive experience the field, I'm not a fan of Net ratings (they are mathematically biased towards that 5 large schools) and Ken Pom "ratings" have (quantitatively speaking) more subjectivity to them than a simple average, I will go with the observations.

Michigan beat us to the glass, and more importantly have picked up on what other teams have done. Put the ball on the floor and use screeners to create either a roll, base line cut or kick out. Purdue was the first to do it. Every team we have played since had tried to follow. But you can only go as far as your talent will take you. By bringing our bigs out to stop the dribble, we helped Morez Johnson look (he did the rest on his own) like the second best player on the floor.

We are better in zone. But I know our coaching staff only uses it sparingly. So that is going to be the debate over the last 2 games of the regular season.
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100% this!
 
#437      
RedGrangeHelmet
I’m also not sure about the Kenpom numbers being perceived as simply adjusted metrics that lead you to any deserted thought.

I mean — if you’d like to think that, go for it. But in terms of the true, raw in-game data… here are the nation leaders in points per 100 possessions on the season:

View attachment 47906

We were at 126.6 before yesterday’s loss. Still firmly #1.
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WHO CARES. The only metric that matters IS WINS AND LOSES. Take any other metric and go away
 
#439      
RedGrangeHelmet
If Underwood really wants to win a national title, he has to admit his current roster construction and philosophy isn’t going to get it done.

I’m the first person to value skill in sports. I’ve gritted my teeth for years about how athleticism has taken over sports and we have lost a lot of the focus on skill.

But you can go too far the other way, and this Illinois team proves it. Unless Fletch can magically make everyone except Boswell 20% more athletic, this team’s ceiling is maybe Elite 8 and probably Sweet 16. As soon as they face a team with good athleticism, it’s game over.

It seems like Illinois’ desired comp is Gonzaga. With rare exception, they hit a ceiling in the tournament.
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I heard a couple of years ago from my coaching sources American college transfer portal players don’t want to play for Brad. Illinois missed out on all their American transfer portal targets except for Andrej. Brad has to go to out of the United States and get recruits
 
#440      
rdk573
Underwood after Michigan loss: "They took the belt off and beat our behinds with it. If you like that too much, then you should probably go to the rec center and play."What he needs from his leaders: "Leadership. Nastiness, toughness, defending..."

Isn't this statement a lost cause??? We haven't played with physicality all year..What makes Underwood think we can do it now and going forward? Especially when we only rotate 7 people in our lineup...They'll all foul out if we change..Its not who we are..

We play with finesse and bank on making 3s especially with an opponent like Michigan..And if the 3s aren't falling, we're toast..
 
#441      
HouTexIllini
I am sick and tired of the analytics BS …

THE only way we get looks inside is back downs … Booty ball … Domask style …

We have ZERO set plays to get a dang look inside !!!!!!!!!

What are the out of bounds/inbounds plays ???

DO WE RUN ANY PLAYS ?!?!??!??!

Infuriating !!!!! 50 f’ing coaches on this staff … We are paying them MILLIONS … And not a gosh dang ONE of them can draw up an f’ing play ???

UNACCEPTABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!
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100% this.
 
#442      
illiniguy24
Not really sure what all to say without sounding super dramatic.

I just don’t understand how we’ve become so soft and mentally weak the last two weeks.

Andrej becoming an absolute zero impact player drops our ceiling by a significant margin. Tomi and Big Z can’t rebound at all.

Suddenly it feels like we have flaws everywhere on the roster.

Anyone saying “I’ll be excited with an elite 8”…uhhh you think?? We’ve only done it ONCE in the last 20 years. I’d be THRILLED with a sweet 16…at least we could end some of the second weekend narrative with that…

Sigh 😒
 
#443      
Roundball Sage
PlayDeeBrownNote said:
My weekends being ruined by Illini losses is really getting old.
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DECADES of Illini Ball underachieving are doing more than just ruining our weekends.

This current Illini team has NO street-ball toughness. When they are challenged by a team that does have it (like last night) the Illini reveal their weakness.

The Illini are trying to Euro-Their-Way to a National Title and that ain’t gonna happen. The Euro game is fine but inherently soft. Without street-ball toughness this reveals an Illini weakness. You cannot just finesse your way to a Final Four. This is not a dance competition.

Once again the Illini showed that they have no idea what solid interior/Paint defense is. They let the opposition waltz in there at their will time and time again. The Michigan defensive game plan forced the Illini out of their desired offense flow and this is now on film and exposed for all future Illini opponents to exploit. The Illini had numerous possessions with ball panic and forced shots that they could not pray in to the hole.

These Friday Night Fox games are not doing the Illini any favors around the World. But that’s not the fault of the day or the network.

The Illini are sliding at a time when they need momentum into the Tournaments. The Illini have talent but also flaws that are not serving them well.
 
#444      
PopChampaign
We have high IQ guys, sure, but we don’t have the same level of athleticism as some other teams and it shows when we play against those programs, Michigan being one of them. Z looked spooked all night and we had no one to stop a Dawg like Morez unfortunately, and we’re going to see a lot more of that in March, buckle up.
 
#445      
ejam21
Illiniguy13 said:
Tomi… 7&4 and 1-6 from 3 doesn’t cut it
Z…0 rebounds?
Andrej no show

Brad’s thing is “how to win games when shots don’t fall”. We’re not seeing it with those guys. If we have any dreams of sweet 16 and beyond, we need these dudes to wake up.
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Except we have seen this with these guys. We were9/29 from 3 today

For example
7/31 vs IU, W
7/22 vs TTU, W
6/27 vs PSU,W
9/30 at Nebby, W

This team is 8-4 when shooting below 33% from 3

I'd say winning 2/3s of your games when you shoot like crap is pretty good.........wish we'd shoot like crap less though lol
 
#446      
Bevoillini
Wanted to wait until this morning to give my thoughts on the game last night. I was very disappointed that we seemed unable to adjust to what was happening during the game. I wonder now what were we doing with the extra time to prepare for Michigan. We had nothing in our bag offensively or defensively when things didn’t work. We had no movement. We relied on 1-2 guys to dribble dribble and get to the basket. No flow or ball movement on offense, thus other teammates not getting the ball. No toughness as a team and a poor effort by the coaching staff. I go to all the home games and several away, my observation is that we are trending backwards, praying I’m wrong.
 
#447      
Mistakenj
The cold, harsh reality now that I’ve sobered up and slept off that disastrous loss is this….we are not in the league of teams that can match our height and have more athleticism. UCONN and Michigan are two examples...and we saw those results. At the time, we thought Nebraska and Purdue were great wins, but they don’t have our height and they may actually be less athletic than us. Duke, Michigan, Arizona all seem to be in a tier that can win it all. We have no chance against these teams and the only way we could go to the Final Four is if they get upset before we have to face them.

I hope we at least make the Sweet 16 or possibly get to an Elite Eight, but I just can’t see in any scenario this team getting to the Final Four with this roster and the formula for winning that we rely upon.
 
#448      
Calvin
Tip of the hat to Michigan -that's a helluva a team to come to Champaign and stomp us. The way this team has played lately doesn't inspire any confidence going into the post-season. It's late in the season to be getting steamrolled, let alone on your home court. Underwood has a tall task to get these guys playing like they were earlier, and able to play through physical games like MSU and Michigan which they clearly don't have an answer for.

I hate to say it out loud, but everyone on this board knows it. That game was a bellweather, and we got closed out the way we were hoping this team would be able to do to their competition. As a coach, you can't get too high or too low, but as a fan, this was a killer.

Couple notes - Andrej hasn't looked good in a while. Not sure what's up with him. Keaton looks like he's going through a sophomore slump, and to an extent, the whole team does. There's still a TON of talent on this team and a couple games on the schedule to build from. Not going to give up on them and really hope they find some fire going into the tournaments.
 
#449      
Second place is 1st loser
Maybe I'm being too positive, but while a loss stinks and are never fun, good came out of this for both our fans and our kids.

As fans, we have to understand and embrace the face that our game is predicated on making threes at a high pace. That is absolutely fine to do that, but if you're going to put your eggs in that basket, you have to be able to hit at a 37% - 40% clip, which means that you had better have the guys who can do that with NBA caliber players defending you. Our screeners have to set firm screens(without fouling), our shooters need to be run off of those screens cleans, then obviously, we have to knock down open looks, but also slightly contested looks. Those are requirements for this offense.

I figured a 15-32 type number was going to be required, at minimum. I thought an 18-40 night would get the job done. For context, we were 18 of 38 vs Purdue.

We started off real well(I think 2 of 3), had a 5 point lead, but ended up 3 of 12 at half. So, the last 10 minutes, we ended 1 for 9. Our team, specifically, can't withstand that. A 5 point lead turned into a 7 point halftime deficit at half. At one point, we were down 9. That's a 16 point swing in one half. I think Michigan went on an 11-0 run. When you can't/don't get to the rim and finish or get fouled, you can't stop those runs. Boswell got to the run a couple of times and finished which kept us with shouting distance, but nobody else could follow that success.

This was on full display vs UCLA. We went up 23 because we were absolutely on fire, but from there, we were 3 of 25 and coughed it all up.

This is who we are. This is the roster we have. Some blame focus, effort, refs....nonsense.

We need to hit the long ball. 16 of 35, for example, we win. That's a 21 point difference.

We can beat Michigan, but us converting is required. Let's just embrace it's who we are.
 
#450      
Illini_Rich
Optics weren’t good for us in this one. We definitely looked overmatched. The real killers for the season are Wisconsin and UCLA. The Michigan game doesn’t matter and is quickly forgotten if we had won those 2. We would be sitting at 5 losses and 3 in-conference losses. Win our last 2 and we’d be solidly on the 2 line with still a shot at a 1. Disappointing that we seem to always do this to ourselves. But we just need to move on. We will be a 3/4 seed that no 1/2 will want in their bracket.
 
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