Michigan 84, Illinois 70 Postgame

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#451      
NashvILLe05
FromTheLogo said:
BU is on record now, per this postgame. He said he doesn't 'really care about the B1G title' he pays attention to 'analytics and the NCAA tournament.'

If he is hyper-focused on that, results matter. In essence..... When the rubber hits the road come the weeks after selection Sunday, we'll see what he's really made of as a coach.
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That places more pressure on him to make deeper NCAAT runs. B1G regular season and tourney titles matter to fans and help with recruiting.
 
#452      
BoiseBaller
Roundball Sage said:
DECADES of Illini Ball underachieving are doing more than just ruining our weekends.

This current Illini team has NO street-ball toughness. When they are challenged by a team that does have it (like last night) the Illini reveal their weakness.

The Illini are trying to Euro-Their-Way to a National Title and that ain’t gonna happen. The Euro game is fine but inherently soft. Without street-ball toughness this reveals an Illini weakness. You cannot just finesse your way to a Final Four. This is not a dance competition.

Once again the Illini showed that they have no idea what solid interior/Paint defense is. They let the opposition waltz in there at their will time and time again. The Michigan defensive game plan forced the Illini out of their desired offense flow and this is now on film and exposed for all future Illini opponents to exploit. The Illini had numerous possessions with ball panic and forced shots that they could not pray in to the hole.

These Friday Night Fox games are not doing the Illini any favors around the World. But that’s not the fault of the day or the network.

The Illini are sliding at a time when they need momentum into the Tournaments. The Illini have talent but also flaws that are not serving them well.
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Great post. I'll add this, if guys like Mirk, at this point in the season, think the refs are going to magically change their habits and call things the way you were used to overseas, well.....sorry buddy. Ain't happening. So adjust and play without the theatrics.
 
#453      
OrangeBlue98
Illini_Rich said:
Optics weren’t good for us in this one. We definitely looked overmatched. The real killers for the season are Wisconsin and UCLA. The Michigan game doesn’t matter and is quickly forgotten if we had won those 2. We would be sitting at 5 losses and 3 in-conference losses. Win our last 2 and we’d be solidly on the 2 line with still a shot at a 1. Disappointing that we seem to always do this to ourselves. But we just need to move on. We will be a 3/4 seed that no 1/2 will want in their bracket.
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This is why losses like Wisconsin and UCLA hurt so much. You lose your margin of error when you lose games you should win.
 
#454      
illinipimp
They were the better team. They match us size wise and our bigs just aren’t physical in the paint when teams have size. We’ve picked a bad time to lose 4 out of 6. Hopefully we can rebound by tournament time. Third place finish would be nice so we get a possible rematch with Michigan State. 4 place gets us Michigan again and I don’t think it will go any better. Mo was a beast and I think all the bad blood from the orange crush motivated him. We still have a good team. Just need to get past these bad losses.
 
#455      
HouTexIllini
illini510 said:
Your bar is pretty low then if you think those are the stats of a good player. Those are about the same stats that Tomi has this season and we all know he has regressed some since last year. Those are the stats of a serviceable piece. My eyes did not tell me that Tre was some fantastic player. He had a role on last year's team and his role was not the go-to player in most games. He is having a better season now but that is because his opportunities have increased with another program and he has taken another step in his progression. There is no guarantee that would've ever happened at Illinois. I personally like Andrej's upside more than Tre's upside. Much higher ceiling with Andrej
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I don’t think my bar is low. I said he is more than the good here and there type of player you said he was. I don’t say he was great.

If we got good D from him every game with 10pts on 50% shooting with 7 rebs and only 1 turn over per game, that wouldn’t satisfy you?

He has scored 25 pts or more 14 times this year including 4 games over 20 points in games vs teams like Duke, Mizzou, and Houston.

Andre’s upside is what we are paying him 60-70% more than what we offered Trey and he is the one who is an every now and then good producer for us. If you like that then that’s your right.

My problem is how we are using Tomi and the bigs and how we aren’t using them. I think they produce better adding other drawn up plays. The same for Andrej. Heck the same for Ben and Jake.

You liking the upside with Andrej is valid. He averaged almost 18 points before getting here. Trey is averaging almost 15 now that he has left and averaged more before coming here. I can go on, but the usage while here is the problem IMO.
 
#456      
Oracle21
Most impressive thing about Michigan is May has gotten their stars to all be unselfish. They pass the ball, and they share minutes. Mara only played 23 minutes last night. But highly effective. Yaxel played 39 but the rest of their guys got enough rest in the game where in the 2nd half they were all fresh enough to exert their will.

I think he’s also gotten McKenney to dial his game back. He could be a chucker/high point scorer on a bad team but May has him playing in a way where he generally only takes good shots. Burnett knows his role and doesn’t try to do things he can’t do. Cason/Cadeau there’s no drop off at PG when either is in.

I don’t know how they lost to Duke. It was an ugly low scoring game kinda reminded me how Duke lost to Houston last year even though they were way better. IMO it’s gonna take a massive upset to beat Michigan in the tourney. So I think this game is more a reflection of how good they are. Illinois isn’t beating them but I doubt anyone else does either.

Also I think Wagler deserves some props. He scored 23 points vs the best defense he will see all season. You can’t take that for granted. Jake Davis wasn’t afraid. And Boswell has a good 1st half. Rest of the guys though just weren’t good enough.
 
#457      
ImGonnaBeILL
We were a really good team in 23-24....but not UCONN's level

We are a really good team in 25-26....but not UM's level

Dusty built an incredible team. Best Frontline is America. Most talented bench in America. McKenney is a pro and will be all big 10 next year IMO if he returns to college. Cason will be starting somewhere next season (whether at UM or someone else offers him more money/PT)
 
#458      
CoachHooleyHoo
AirTran said:
You are making a decision Andre or Tre - I'll go with Andre/Jake/Hummer (when Z and Tomi are on the floor together. Tre fought with Brad... no one needs the sideshow.

Same with Morez v. Mirk.

Morez got the better of us tonight, but I am very, very happy with Mirk.

Sometimes the opposition is just that much better. That certainly was the case tonight.

As for your criticisms of Brad. I can say this as a 60 year avid fan of Illini basketball. Blow it out your...

(1) The guy wants to be here... not build towards someplace else.
(2) He understands the modern game (roster turnover, NIL, change in rules and how the game is played) and is credited by most as being a leader in this area.
(3) He is 11th over the past 7 years in NCAA wins.
(4) It's pretty clear what he is trying to do: build a mental tenacity personafied by rebounding and defense. We are still not at the level that UCONN showed us a couple years ago. However, we are closer to that level than we have been in 30 years. Most of the people not here (I can give you list and yes I have tracked them) we are better off, with them not here. You want Skyy Clark, Jayden Epps, Sencire Harris, Dre LG, Dain Dainja, Amani Hansberry and Nicollo Moretti (those are just the recent transfers)? They're yours.

The guy is able to recruit **** star talent and then replace them with players that are either more talented or a better fit and win 20 games every season. There are only 10 coaches in America who are better at that than he is.

Look at the skill levels the people (I hope) returning have. That is alot to be optimistic about.

I don't get it. Lou Henson was the only other modern day coach more consistent as Brad. You may not remember this, but similar to Brad, everyone wanted to run Lou out of town as they thought (and continue to see) our program should be on a par with the names similar to Indiana, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, UCONN, UCLA, Kansas, MSU, Louisville or Houston.

It took John Wooden 14 seasons reach his first Final Four with UCLA.
Dean Smith won his first NCAA championship in his 22nd season at UNC.
It took Mike Krzyzewski 11 seasons win his first NCAA championship at Duke.
It took Jim Calhoun 13 seasons the University of Connecticut to win his first NCAA National Championship.
Tom Izzo has won 1 NCAA championship.
It took Bill Self 15 seasons a head coach to win his first NCAA championship. It took him another 14 years to win a second.

Brad has been trying to get Illinois to a consistency level, getting the final 16 on a fairly regular basis. You don't win championships without getting your talent level (and mentality) to the upper echelon level first. But other than the Henson era - we don't have the legacy (and donors) the other schools have. But we are making up some of the distance.

Brad has a better understanding of that and is trying create a fit an Illinois. If you don't think that has built a base and we are actually improving off the base, maybe you need to find another school or team to root for.
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All of your examples of coaching were pre-NIL. It’s a different era with more opportunities for immediate success. My observation is that BU is a guy who builds/coaches really good teams but not national champion contenders. It certainly could be a lot worse.
 
#459      
Heisenbobble
TriangleIL said:
We will beat Michigan in the NCAAs.
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Will Ferrell Lol GIF
 
#462      
I-L-L
illini510 said:
Still think Morez is a traitor and a sellout but he brought it tonight and was cold blooded. He did not let the crowd impact his gameplay. He's a good player and our fanbase is not happy that he sold his soul for the almighty dollar but that's college athletics for you.
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If we had Morez instead of andrej we’d be a top tier team. Morez’s toughness and physicality is all we’re missing.
 
#463      
HereSoIDontGetFined
CoachHooleyHoo said:
All of your examples of coaching were pre-NIL. It’s a different era with more opportunities for immediate success. My observation is that BU is a guy who builds/coaches really good teams but not national champion contenders. It certainly could be a lot worse.
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Winning titles is hard. Think about how consistent Michigan State has been with Izzo, and they haven't gotten over the hump for 26 years!
 
#464      
Poe's Law
wc_illini said:
Yeah, I have no problem with kids shopping around for the best offer. If the rumors are true of him signing or giving a meaningful commitment then bailing, then I feel differently.
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How meaningful is any NIL contract?

That being said, I know Brad welcomes back the transfers, I’m just fine if Morez never comes back to Champaign.
 
#465      
ChiefGritty
Oracle21 said:
No way. Edey is far more skilled offensive player. Mara better protecting the rim but that’s it
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Edey wasn't doing between the legs passes and finger rolling layups out there.

Perhaps Mara shouldn't be doing those things either, but that's what I mean by sauce to his game. There are not a lot of 7'3" guys that have that.

Not meant to disrespect Edey who's one of the most dominant players around the basket of his generation, but Mara might have the ability to evolve into a more varied sort of weapon.
 
#466      
D1959
I’m just going to get this off my chest. We have 2 7ft plus players that can’t rebound
 
#467      
Scoregasm
FromTheLogo said:
BU is on record now, per this postgame. He said he doesn't 'really care about the B1G title' he pays attention to 'analytics and the NCAA tournament.'

If he is hyper-focused on that, results matter. In essence..... When the rubber hits the road come the weeks after selection Sunday, we'll see what he's really made of as a coach.
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I agree about the NCAAT, hoping that means we exceed our seed line and get to at least an E8.
 
#469      
SemperFiIllini
Fly Illini Fly! said:
I’m also not sure about the Kenpom numbers being perceived as simply adjusted metrics that lead you to any deserted thought.

I mean — if you’d like to think that, go for it. But in terms of the true, raw in-game data… here are the nation leaders in points per 100 possessions on the season:

View attachment 47906

We were at 126.6 before yesterday’s loss. Still firmly #1.
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There's only 2 teams on this list with a legit shot at winning a title. Wonder where we would rank if an analytic nerd did a toughness per 100 possessions?...
 
#470      
bluemountain
Michigan is the best team I've seen this season. I remember a lot of people on this board were mocking UM because of the Dusty May hire; I don't think they are mocking them now
 
#471      
Second place is 1st loser
illinipimp said:
They were the better team. They match us size wise and our bigs just aren’t physical in the paint when teams have size. We’ve picked a bad time to lose 4 out of 6. Hopefully we can rebound by tournament time. Third place finish would be nice so we get a possible rematch with Michigan State. 4 place gets us Michigan again and I don’t think it will go any better. Mo was a beast and I think all the bad blood from the orange crush motivated him. We still have a good team. Just need to get past these bad losses.
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We do have to take into account that 3 of those losses were in OT. That point doesn't help what the record is and ultimately doesn't count for anything, but we flat out blew the UCLA game and in the MSU and Wisconsin games, we were one play away from winning both. Now, the negative side brings us back to rebounding because we didn't do it late in any of the three games. Not securing rebounds and missed foul shots, in crunch time, were out demise.
The point is, if we just win one of those games, just one, the narrative changes. We're 3-3 and there's rationalization they hey ....MSU, the West coast trip, then Michigan..... it's not great, but it's understandable. If we win two of the OT's(MSU and UCLA were absolutely ours) and we're 4-2, locked into a 2 seed and we all feel great.

A loss is a loss, but outside of Michigan, who is stacked.....we lost 3 games that we really should have won.
 
#472      
TheodoreRex
Fly Illini Fly! said:
I mean.... that's not true? I feel like when people make these inferences on seeding, they have virtually no idea about THE REST of college basketball.

Right now there's 6 teams you could consider "locks" for at least a 2seed: Houston, Iowa State, UCONN, Michigan, Arizona, Duke.

The rest is completely up for grabs and if we're being honest -- a loss to the potential #1 or 2 overall team won't hurt you (we saw it with Duke last year).

FLA still has games against Arkansas and @KY.

Purdue seems to keep on losing.

MSU still has @Indiana and @Michigan.

These are tough games!

Plus we still have the BIG tourney to make our mark. Lots still left to play out. Illinois isn't "locked out" of anything other than a 1seed and a BIG regular season title.
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I don't think you understood what I was saying- I didn't mean we couldn't get a better seed, though I don't think we will- I meant that I don't see us getting worse than a 3 seed.
 
#473      
Trueblue777
ChiefGritty said:
Edey wasn't doing between the legs passes and finger rolling layups out there.

Perhaps Mara shouldn't be doing those things either, but that's what I mean by sauce to his game. There are not a lot of 7'3" guys that have that.

Not meant to disrespect Edey who's one of the most dominant players around the basket of his generation, but Mara might have the ability to evolve into a more varied sort of weapon.
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Agree, I’m very disappointed in our defense against Mara. All you have to do is benphysical with him and he wilts. We are too soft on the inside other than Mirk and Ben.
 
#474      
CoalCity
RML said:
That's what Michigan's size and athleticism can do. Plus, our perimeter passing wasn't nearly as crisp as usual. Shooters were catching the ball over their head, or at their knees, or off to the side. Iirc, Kylan once resorted to a BOUNCE pass out there...
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Great point about the perimeter passing. Noted several times a guy was open and got the ball in an awkward position. By the time they corralled it they were no longer open
 
#475      
doowink
First time all year that I really felt like the Illini were outmatched....we are good....but Michigan is very good...take the butt whipping tonight, learn from it and get better...maybe a rematch in BTT...who knows...would be kinda nice, just to see how much we learned or progressed...or regressed...win the next two and let chips fall where they may...still have a good chance to make a deep run come March
 
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