Michigan State 79, Illinois 65 Postgame

You are viewing it as if you're building a team every year. Only the blue bloods have ever relied on all Fr.

You shouldn't be looking to fill 7+ roster spots on any given year. So you grab 1-3 Fr, a transfer or 2, and build a program. I firmly believe this massive overhaul of rosters is bad for the game. The overall quality is down. You can't just throw a group of guys together and expect them to instantly become a well oiled machine. That's why you build a program, not a roster.

DeeIL89 said:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1890969977429037522

Old habits die hard. That’s what I am seeing with the players. They’ve been coached up to be this 3 point first heavy team and now it’s looking like they are trying to unlearn it in the most important month leading to tournament time. Off-season staff changes is going to be vital.

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Disagree with the assessment. It reads like, we knew what we needed to do and didn't do it. Ben H made the EXACT same comment a few weeks back in a post game interview.

This was not a revelation based on Saturday. These comments were made weeks ago and we were playing like it clicked for a lot of games...including wins versus Ohio State and UCLA. We made 3 of our first 4, blew the doors off... then got stuck mentally. These kids aren't dumb, had adjusted and went back to their own bad habits on Saturday after being hot to start. There were a lot of heat checks going on until the trend kept going.

Give our guys more credit than that.

Second place is 1st loser said:

Disagree with the assessment. It reads like, we knew what we needed to do and didn't do it. Ben H made the EXACT same comment a few weeks back in a post game interview.

This was not a revelation based on Saturday. These comments were made weeks ago and we were playing like it clicked for a lot of games...including wins versus Ohio State and UCLA. We made 3 of our first 4, blew the doors off... then got stuck mentally. These kids aren't dumb, had adjusted and went back to their own bad habits on Saturday after being hot to start. There were a lot of heat checks going on until the trend kept going.

Give our guys more credit than that.

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There’s a thing called the bench. It is to the right of coaches each and every game and has been known to help refocus and reset players mentally during a game. It seems to not be being used for that purpose this season for some players in the team.

Or recruit undervalued 3 star players and find undervalued portals, coach them up and keep them. Recruiting 5 star, sure fire NBA talent out of high school, and bringing over NBA ready Europeans is a real risky strategy.

WyattEarp said:

I wouldn’t be so sure of that.

I understand that he does care about his players. I understand that he is hard to play for. I understand that the portal is the enemy of continuity. But Brad has to start proving he can retain people.

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I'm not just replying to this post but to the general discussion on this typic regarding portal activity and player retention. There are several good points from all sides made above. And my contribution is a cop-out statement: Both things are valuable, and for me one of the lessons of this season is the need to balance both.

I've seen comments about how this staff really missed on some talent/player evaluations this offseason, and I suppose that's true, but with such a high turnover, I wonder if it was basically inevitable to miss on at least some? I think one thing player retention gives you is simply knowing what you have to work with, which is super valuable.

At the same time, I do think there's a great argument to be made for going out and trying to make a smaller number of high-impact adds each season - and I agree that I'd like to see that be more veteran players if we can manage it in the future.

Along these lines, there are also comments about Brad's (and his current staff's) weakness in the "Xs and Os" department. My eyes would agree with that sentiment, but I also think that Brad's shown that you can overcome this limitation with talent. But while this team does have lots of talent, there's not a lot of great 1-on-1, go get a decent shot type of guys, and the 2 that are probably the best at it are DGL and Tre White, who for whatever reason aren't even really playing right now. I think last year we overcame a lot just by having 2 guys that were matchup nightmares and could go get buckets at will, which is a huge help if you aren't running a scheme that is great at generating easy looks all game. How many times would Brad talk about how TSJ would score so much even though we never ran anything for him. (Kind of like Tre White for a few games earlier this year - although not to the same elite level obviously) Sure was nice...

Finally, I'm also seeing how valuable guys like Jake Davis are. If we can retain him, that would be great. He's solid, and I think can accept an appropriate role, and won't break the bank in doing so. I want to see us spend NIL money on a few REALLY big fish instead of trying to fill the bench with a bunch of talent that won't play. And in order to do that, you still need guys like Jake who can be solid role players that don't break the bank.

RML said:

Some stats on Ben's 3-point shooting in B1G games:

In games where he makes 2 of his first 3, he has shot 48% (16 of 33). In all other games, he has shot 27% (16 of 60).

In the five games where he missed his first 3 threes, he subsequently shot 24% (4 of 17) from 3 in those games.

In games where he has missed three in a row, he has made the next shot 31% of the time (4 of 13). But when he has missed that fourth one, his fifth try hasn't been very successful. He has made that one only once in seven tries (14%)

Oh, he has made three in a row once. His longest streak of misses was the 0 of 7 at Nebraska.

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Sorry, I need to correct my numbers and math.

In the six B1G games where he missed his first 3 threes, Ben has gone on from there to shoot 13% from 3 in those games (2 of 15). (For comparison, in 22-23, Coleman shot 28% from 3, and RJ shot 26%.). Never even 2 in a row, much less a five in a row heater. If he's having a bad day, he doesn't shoot his way out of it.

In games where he doesn't start awful, Ben's been a fairly consistent good shooter. In the six games where he started 1 of 3 from 3, he's gone on the shoot 43% (3 of 7) from there, and in the four games where he started 2 of 3, he's gone on from there to shoot 40% (8 of 20) from there, giving him full game totals of 36% when he starts 1 of 3, and 50% when he starts 2 of 3.

(He hasn't yet had a B1G game where he started 3 of 3 from deep. Saving it for Duke. )

I guess I'm starting to wonder if I would have enjoyed this season more if we had stuck with the core group of everyday guys, knowing that this wouldn't be our year, but we were building towards a great year next year? I love KJ and Riley, and understand that getting one and dones to the pros helps us get other one and dones, but if all we get from having two one and dones is a mediocre season, I will question if it might have been more fun to watch to see what DGL, Ty Rogers, Morez, and maybe Sencire, Hansbury, and possibly Goode could have grown into.

21ChampaignSt said:

- Longish post that's not directed at you New Creation -

I don't understand where this is coming from though. Now we're saying he has to make a deep run every year or else?

Look, I think I have pretty high expectations for our program. In 2023 when people were calling the season a success just because we made the tournament or saying that it doesn't matter what happens in March because it's a crapshoot, I was adamant that a 9 seed and first round exit does not qualify for a successful season at Illinois. Our expectations should be higher than that. March matters. It's when good programs shine brightest.

But, we also aren't going to be a second weekend or bust team every single year. Especially this year. This team hasn't lived up to expectations but even if they were tracking for a 3 or 4 seed, IMO, the youth and lack of continuity were always going to make getting to the second weekend an uphill battle.

In 2003, we had a Hall of Fame coach and 6 future NBA players - four whose numbers now hang in the rafters. And we got bounced in the 2nd round. That was the first game I ever went to so I remember it well. But I don't know what the attitude of the fanbase was back then? Were people putting Self on the hot seat because he wasted all that talent?

Here is what I think is a fair expectation of an Illinois coach:

- Make the tournament at least 9 out of every 10 years
- Advance to the second weekend 3 or 4 times out of every 10 years
- Advance to the Final Four 1 time every 10 years

We are more or less on track to hit those marks since 2021.

Overall, I agree that changes should be made but we are so far from ultimatum time, IMO.

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This is all very accurate. I’m not for getting rid of Brad…barring some really crazy sh*t…but it’s more than prudent to have a plan B…

You’re right about that 2003 team. All the big names have been booted. (Hurley has gone early…sheer poetry) Without looking it up, I think Self when he first left-might have even missed the tourney at Kansas?…definitely some early exits initially. People have short memories…AND the avg. fans of the early 2000s weren’t like today.

Fans are more hyper aware of statistical minutia for one thing…How many pay sites for college hoops these days? Those things were in their infancy then. That’s one theory at least… But yes, there were plenty of hyper critical fans then too. During Henson’s reign as well…I vaguely remember some loony calls for ouster from people. I was just a kid…but imagine there was cussing around the water cooler instead of online.

As to the disillusion that many are feeling right now…I think you have to consider:

1.) Everyone knew there would be hiccups with a young team. (But by the number$ this team has objectively underachieved..even with its roster construction issues.) Most reasonable person knows it would take time to gel…if it did at all. It WAS a gamble. People obv. knew it could go either way with the crapshoot that is the portal. It wasn’t like we hadn’t seen it go off the rails before…with all the dysfunction that went with that in ‘23. Still we trusted in Brad…Yet, it all begs the question is all this overhaul gambling the way to go? The answer is No. But once you do it one year…you’re most likely roped into doing 2…not sustainable. People are rightly, getting tired of that. Brad needs to prove he can retain people

2.) This year, the message was: If we lost Sincere and Hansberry and Ty…don't worry about it we got more talent coming in that better suits the way Brad wants to scheme and play. These WV guys can’t shoot, anyway. When a few months before those 3 were the second coming…Recruit over Luke…no worries we got Humrichous…coming in…He’s a deadeye and a better freethrow shooter to boot.
Trust Brad…so we did.

3.) Coaching burn out is quite high right now…for good reason. There is still the looming question of whether or not Brad even wants to be here…honestly. How does that stress affect a person? I more than get, that it is tough to maneuver in this era. (Ageism has nothing to do with the following comment.btw). Some have a feeling Brad’s give a damn is a little busted. Not because he’s not red faced & yelling and vein popping like before…and not the slight attempt at behavior mod for today’s players…(that had to change a little)…but frankly he just doesn’t seem like he cares as much. Sure he still gets defensive in pressers…But, I think a lot of people are sensing that…rightly or wrongly he’s getting complacent. We’ve had insiders claim he was getting complacent for a while now. If he in fact, doesn’t wanna be here; I don’t want him.

4.) The nepotism should never have been allowed. It was a problem then…and it is a problem now. Assistants would have to feel undermined by it.

FloridaMan said:

There’s a thing called the bench. It is to the right of coaches each and every game and has been known to help refocus and reset players mentally during a game. It seems to not be being used for that purpose this season for some players in the team.

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I know that you're unhappy with Brad and I get it, but while doing so, you're absolving these players of ANY responsibility. The other issue is that, I believe, you're overselling what's on our bench.

Riley comes off the bench, but garners starter's minutes. That's clear.

Ben H is our only semblance of a big man on our bench. We've got nothing else. Nobody else is capable of garnering minutes. If there's foul trouble, he's the go to. When Morez or Tomi can't guard the perimeter and drop, he's the go to. Morez is particularly bad at it.

DGL, as most agree, is an energy guy and if he can't provide that, he's really just a minimal minutes eater. The last few games, I'm not sure if he's been ill, but the second he came in versus MSU, he was immediately blown by. He was a swinging gate.

Trey.... something really, really bad happened there. A line was obviously crossed to the point where he's serving an in-house suspension or he's just done. None of us know, so none of us should be guessing. What we do know is that Brad's job is to win games. He's graded on winning games and not playing him is a detriment and I'm sure he'd be in the games if the situation was reasonable to any extent. Maybe he's sick? Whatever it is, it's not good.

Boswell, none of us understand where he really is. Defensively, he's a dog, but offensively, he can't hit the broad side of a barn from deep and he can't finish at the rim.

So, Brad can reset and refocus all he wants, but if he can't go into his bench to do that....it's an issue. Your premise is right, but I'm not sure the analysis of what we have is on point.

What I fear most is that while we want guys to attack the rim, who do we have that can successfully do it?

KJ gets in the paint and is a turnover machine. Boswell gets into the paint and generally gets his shot blocked or can't finish. What does that leave us? Riley? He's the only one who seems to be able to truly drive the ball without disaster happening, while at the same time....he needs a year to be able to finish through contact.

KJ and Riley's ceilings are sky high, thus the draft protections. They are both, and minimum, 2 years in the G-League from being playable in the NBA.

Another fear that I have is that we TRULY lack elite athletes. Morez is an elite athlete. He jumps off the page. DGL is an elite athlete, but his skill set is all based on effort, which don't get me wrong....its valuable. Nobody else really sticks out and I think that's part of the issue.

This was a loooooong winded answer to.....I don't care how many timeouts Brad takes, this is a young team, that isn't close to developing physically, whenever Ben gets in the game, people here lose their minds.....what is a 3 minute timeout going to do to rectify this?

This isn't a roster where you can press a few buttons and reset and reinforce philosophy. Despite many's belief, Brad isn't a basketball idiot and he has forgotten more about basketball than ANYONE on this board will ever know. Unless you've been to practice, unless you've been in the huddles, unless you've been in an office for one on one meetings.....nothing on this board is anything but baseless opinion and speculation.

As easy as you think his job is and as much as you want to believe that the fix is a quick turn of the screwdriver....it isn't. At this point in time, I don't think the pieces are there(mature enough physically or mentally) for a quick fix.

JMO and apologies for the length.

21ChampaignSt said:

- Longish post that's not directed at you New Creation -

I don't understand where this is coming from though. Now we're saying he has to make a deep run every year or else?

Look, I think I have pretty high expectations for our program. In 2023 when people were calling the season a success just because we made the tournament or saying that it doesn't matter what happens in March because it's a crapshoot, I was adamant that a 9 seed and first round exit does not qualify for a successful season at Illinois. Our expectations should be higher than that. March matters. It's when good programs shine brightest.

But, we also aren't going to be a second weekend or bust team every single year. Especially this year. This team hasn't lived up to expectations but even if they were tracking for a 3 or 4 seed, IMO, the youth and lack of continuity were always going to make getting to the second weekend an uphill battle.

In 2003, we had a Hall of Fame coach and 6 future NBA players - four whose numbers now hang in the rafters. And we got bounced in the 2nd round. That was the first game I ever went to so I remember it well. But I don't know what the attitude of the fanbase was back then? Were people putting Self on the hot seat because he wasted all that talent?

Here is what I think is a fair expectation of an Illinois coach:

- Make the tournament at least 9 out of every 10 years
- Advance to the second weekend 3 or 4 times out of every 10 years
- Advance to the Final Four 1 time every 10 years

We are more or less on track to hit those marks since 2021.

Overall, I agree that changes should be made but we are so far from ultimatum time, IMO.

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FWLIW, I don't personally remember Illini fans wanting Self fired. In fact, most (including me) were crushed when he left....especially because our AD at the time was mad and didn't even try to counter to keep him. Not saying he would have stayed, just saying it was handled as poorly as could be.

For a long time, Illini fans ran with the narrative that Self was a great recruiter and a mediocre bench coach. I've always thought he was darn good at both. That said, I do think he played in the grey area which some didn't agree with.

The funny thing about that narrative of great recruiter / mediocre bench coach is that seems to fit Brad much more than it did Self.

kyillinifan said:

Their guards had wide open free throw line shots. If you watch the IU vs MSU game IU deployed a zone against MSU in the second half and it totally disrupted their flow on offense. Kohler will not have another game like he did on Saturday.

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Those are literally the suits Brad wants them to take. He’s said repeatedly he wants to give them long 2s.

We also seem to pick one guy each game who we dare to beat us. We play the odds and let a 25% 3 pt shooter have those shots. That’s one reason our rebounding is so good.

bleedorange and blue said:

If Brad were to somehow hand the job of to Tyler, me,,my 50+ years of unwavering fan support and my money would finally have reached the breaking point

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Don't worry another second about it. That quite clearly is not Underwood's decision & Whitman would never choose such an unproven, questionable coach as our head coach.
Tyler does not belong on this staff and it's embarrassing that he is. He needs to move on and try to build a career elsewhere. Whitman may have to step in and tell Underwood to let him go.
As for Hamer, he's dead coach walking and also never should have been given the role he seems to have overseeing the defense.
Underwood needs to hire two established veteran coaches for next season, which should help with his in-game management deficiency.

Too soon?

MSU fan was nice enough to share with me

WyattEarp said:

This is all very accurate. I’m not for getting rid of Brad…barring some really crazy sh*t…but it’s more than prudent to have a plan B…

You’re right about that 2003 team. All the big names have been booted. (Hurley has gone early…sheer poetry) Without looking it up, I think Self when he first left-might have even missed the tourney at Kansas?…definitely some early exits initially. People have short memories…AND the avg. fans of the early 2000s weren’t like today.

Fans are more hyper aware of statistical minutia for one thing…How many pay sites for college hoops these days? Those things were in their infancy then. That’s one theory at least… But yes, there were plenty of hyper critical fans then too. During Henson’s reign as well…I vaguely remember some loony calls for ouster from people. I was just a kid…but imagine there was cussing around the water cooler instead of online.

As to the disillusion that many are feeling right now…I think you have to consider:

1.) Everyone knew there would be hiccups with a young team. (But by the number$ this team has objectively underachieved..even with its roster construction issues.) Most reasonable person knows it would take time to gel…if it did at all. It WAS a gamble. People obv. knew it could go either way with the crapshoot that is the portal. It wasn’t like we hadn’t seen it go off the rails before…with all the dysfunction that went with that in ‘23. Still we trusted in Brad…Yet, it all begs the question is all this overhaul gambling the way to go? The answer is No. But once you do it one year…you’re most likely roped into doing 2…not sustainable. People are rightly, getting tired of that. Brad needs to prove he can retain people

2.) This year, the message was: If we lost Sincere and Hansberry and Ty…don't worry about it we got more talent coming in that better suits the way Brad wants to scheme and play. These WV guys can’t shoot, anyway. When a few months before those 3 were the second coming…Recruit over Luke…no worries we got Humrichous…coming in…He’s a deadeye and a better freethrow shooter to boot.
Trust Brad…so we did.

3.) Coaching burn out is quite high right now…for good reason. There is still the looming question of whether or not Brad even wants to be here…honestly. How does that stress affect a person? I more than get, that it is tough to maneuver in this era. (Ageism has nothing to do with the following comment.btw). Some have a feeling Brad’s give a damn is a little busted. Not because he’s not red faced & yelling and vein popping like before…and not the slight attempt at behavior mod for today’s players…(that had to change a little)…but frankly he just doesn’t seem like he cares as much. Sure he still gets defensive in pressers…But, I think a lot of people are sensing that…rightly or wrongly he’s getting complacent. We’ve had insiders claim he was getting complacent for a while now. If he in fact, doesn’t wanna be here; I don’t want him.

4.) The nepotism should never have been allowed. It was a problem then…and it is a problem now. Assistants would have to feel undermined by it.

Click to expand...

2 is my main complaint and has been for a few seasons. Can't hang your hat on an EDG mentality and then run off your EDG's for more talent.

Apoligies if my posts the last couple days make me look like a bipolar hypocrite.

I'm frustrated with this season.
But optimistic about the outlook of the program.

I like Brad and want him to stick around.
But there are areas in which he needs to improve.

I'm a fan of cottage cheese.
But not when it's used as a high protein substitute for heavy whipping cream.

WyattEarp said:

This is all very accurate. I’m not for getting rid of Brad…barring some really crazy sh*t…but it’s more than prudent to have a plan B…

You’re right about that 2003 team. All the big names have been booted. (Hurley has gone early…sheer poetry) Without looking it up, I think Self when he first left-might have even missed the tourney at Kansas?…definitely some early exits initially. People have short memories…AND the avg. fans of the early 2000s weren’t like today.

Fans are more hyper aware of statistical minutia for one thing…How many pay sites for college hoops these days? Those things were in their infancy then. That’s one theory at least… But yes, there were plenty of hyper critical fans then too. During Henson’s reign as well…I vaguely remember some loony calls for ouster from people. I was just a kid…but imagine there was cussing around the water cooler instead of online.

As to the disillusion that many are feeling right now…I think you have to consider:

1.) Everyone knew there would be hiccups with a young team. (But by the number$ this team has objectively underachieved..even with its roster construction issues.) Most reasonable person knows it would take time to gel…if it did at all. It WAS a gamble. People obv. knew it could go either way with the crapshoot that is the portal. It wasn’t like we hadn’t seen it go off the rails before…with all the dysfunction that went with that in ‘23. Still we trusted in Brad…Yet, it all begs the question is all this overhaul gambling the way to go? The answer is No. But once you do it one year…you’re most likely roped into doing 2…not sustainable. People are rightly, getting tired of that. Brad needs to prove he can retain people

2.) This year, the message was: If we lost Sincere and Hansberry and Ty…don't worry about it we got more talent coming in that better suits the way Brad wants to scheme and play. These WV guys can’t shoot, anyway. When a few months before those 3 were the second coming…Recruit over Luke…no worries we got Humrichous…coming in…He’s a deadeye and a better freethrow shooter to boot.
Trust Brad…so we did.

WyattEarp said:

This is all very accurate. I’m not for getting rid of Brad…barring some really crazy sh*t…but it’s more than prudent to have a plan B…

You’re right about that 2003 team. All the big names have been booted. (Hurley has gone early…sheer poetry) Without looking it up, I think Self when he first left-might have even missed the tourney at Kansas?…definitely some early exits initially. People have short memories…AND the avg. fans of the early 2000s weren’t like today.

Fans are more hyper aware of statistical minutia for one thing…How many pay sites for college hoops these days? Those things were in their infancy then. That’s one theory at least… But yes, there were plenty of hyper critical fans then too. During Henson’s reign as well…I vaguely remember some loony calls for ouster from people. I was just a kid…but imagine there was cussing around the water cooler instead of online.

As to the disillusion that many are feeling right now…I think you have to consider:

1.) Everyone knew there would be hiccups with a young team. (But by the number$ this team has objectively underachieved..even with its roster construction issues.) Most reasonable person knows it would take time to gel…if it did at all. It WAS a gamble. People obv. knew it could go either way with the crapshoot that is the portal. It wasn’t like we hadn’t seen it go off the rails before…with all the dysfunction that went with that in ‘23. Still we trusted in Brad…Yet, it all begs the question is all this overhaul gambling the way to go? The answer is No. But once you do it one year…you’re most likely roped into doing 2…not sustainable. People are rightly, getting tired of that. Brad needs to prove he can retain people

2.) This year, the message was: If we lost Sincere and Hansberry and Ty…don't worry about it we got more talent coming in that better suits the way Brad wants to scheme and play. These WV guys can’t shoot, anyway. When a few months before those 3 were the second coming…Recruit over Luke…no worries we got Humrichous…coming in…He’s a deadeye and a better freethrow shooter to boot.
Trust Brad…so we did.

3.) Coaching burn out is quite high right now…for good reason. There is still the looming question of whether or not Brad even wants to be here…honestly. How does that stress affect a person? I more than get, that it is tough to maneuver in this era. (Ageism has nothing to do with the following comment.btw). Some have a feeling Brad’s give a damn is a little busted. Not because he’s not red faced & yelling and vein popping like before…and not the slight attempt at behavior mod for today’s players…(that had to change a little)…but frankly he just doesn’t seem like he cares as much. Sure he still gets defensive in pressers…But, I think a lot of people are sensing that…rightly or wrongly he’s getting complacent. We’ve had insiders claim he was getting complacent for a while now. If he in fact, doesn’t wanna be here; I don’t want him.

4.) The nepotism should never have been allowed. It was a problem then…and it is a problem now. Assistants would have to feel undermined by it.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

We also let Dainja and Coleman go.

Ben wasn’t recruited to take Goode’s role. He was supposed replace what Coleman would have provided.

pruman91 said:

Tyler was never a starter in college and got tick only because of Daddy Brad... seems like BU is deferring to TU at every timeout instead of ripping into the team like he used to do.

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This is a tough call for any father. Where is my greater loyalty? To my Flesh-and-Blood (and my future heir and bearer of our family legacy)... or to my employer and their vigorous fan base?

The answer is easy for fans. ‘You work for us. Our Beloved is paying you well. You owe us something for our support.’

Well, let’s turn that around from the other point of view. 'You are my Dad. You work for Our Family. You owe us first and foremost before you owe anything to anybody else. Would I get this chance anywhere else right now?’

Perhaps what Coach is doing is allowing his son to ‘shoot his way out of this’. He is priming his lad for a future in the coaching profession and he wants to strike while the iron is hot and give his boy a chance to succeed here and now at that level of a proud major program. Is that the right call? That is something Coach has to decide in the quiet of his own thoughts.

There is something holding this program back. The Illini have hit a glass ceiling a couple times over the years to finally roost permanently in the Top Ten and maybe Final Four. As fans this is frustrating because we want to see The Beloved as our/a Blueblood even though we know in our hearts that other programs are wearing that label easier these days.

The Illini are young. But youth alone is not the problem. The amount of talent on this team is evident but do we see consistent progress as the season goes on? Still too many cold stretches from Three. Still too many turnovers and mental errors. The D has been fairly good most of the way. But the Illini struggle when the Other Guys challenge them at key moments of a game and the Illini have trouble finding a floor leader to settle things down and take charge. Who is the Alpha on the floor?

The puzzle pieces of this year’s team have not fully come together. And with the fast shifting sands of College Ball these days you get one short season to make all the pieces fit in that short time.

As we saw during the Michigan State game, the Illini were feeling way-great about themselves when they had the big lead. And then when challenged... the Illini just as quickly began to fold. You cannot show fear or weakness on the floor as the other side can sense this right away and know they are beginning to get the upper hand. State sensed this and completely dominated since the middle of the first half.

This could be such a great season and finish if the Illini can figure things out maybe more off the court than on it. They have floor talent. They need the wisdom to know how to best use it.

RML said:

I guess I'm starting to wonder if I would have enjoyed this season more if we had stuck with the core group of everyday guys, knowing that this wouldn't be our year, but we were building towards a great year next year? I love KJ and Riley, and understand that getting one and dones to the pros helps us get other one and dones, but if all we get from having two one and dones is a mediocre season, I will question if it might have been more fun to watch to see what DGL, Ty Rogers, Morez, and maybe Sencire, Hansbury, and possibly Goode could have grown into.

Click to expand...

Been thinking this a lot myself recently.

People might disagree but I definitely think a team with KJ, Boswell, Riley, Morez, Coleman surrounded by guys like TY, DGL, Goode, Hansbury, Dainja, Sencire would have been a much more cohesive and fun to watch group than what we've got on the court now (I'm assuming if we kept Coleman we couldn't afford Ivisic).

Here is the deal. It is easy to understand why Tyler Underwood is where he is. But why is Hamer where he is and on what basis was he given the responsibility that he apparently has?

AirNeazy said:

Been thinking this a lot myself recently.

People might disagree but I definitely think a team with KJ, Boswell, Riley, Morez, Coleman surrounded by guys like TY, DGL, Goode, Hansbury, Dainja, Sencire would have been a much more cohesive and fun to watch group than what we've got on the court now (I'm assuming if we kept Coleman we couldn't afford Ivisic).

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Yeah but once Chester left, was there anyway to keep Buck or Hansberry? As we discuss th assistant coach thing, don’t forget the info that Chester wanted to run the defense but Brad said “no”.

Illinialldayeveryday said:

... a really young team that can't shoot. And a coach that can't seem to get the message across.

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This deep into the season, the fact that the players continue to shoot too many bad threes, combined with the enthusiastic way that Underwood continues to describe his offensive strategy to the press leads me believe that the coaching staff is not making a substantial effort to get players to make better decisions about shot selection.

It's not a complicated thing to accomplish: video watching ("See that? Team mate was open in the post and instead we took an off-balance three.") followed up with 5-on-5 practice ("Stop! We had a guy flash to the post, open. Get it to him next time. That's a turnover. Orange switch to D, Blue gets the ball. Run the offense!") And then in games: poor shot selection earns a seat on the bench to think it over for a couple minutes.

Keisersose said:

Yeah but once Chester left, was there anyway to keep Buck or Hansberry? As we discuss th assistant coach thing, don’t forget the info that Chester wanted to run the defense but Brad said “no”.

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Man, if/when Whitman tells Underwood to let go of Hamer/Jones and demote/let go of Tyler, !!!! could get interesting. Choosing Hamer over Chester makes me think this won't end quietly.

I personally like Chester. As a former Illini, it’s hard not to like him. Why wouldn’t coach let him run the defense?

Keisersose said:

We also let Dainja and Coleman go.

Ben wasn’t recruited to take Goode’s role. He was supposed replace what Coleman would have provided.

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Right, right…fair.

Personally I’m good with how it ended with CoHawk. He gave us a number of years and it ended in an okay kind way…for this whacky era at least.

Dainja though…yeah, I’d have to agree…
He never seemed to play great against bigtime opponents when here…but I have to think the opportunity to improve was there…which he undoubtedly would have done. Without, looking at his yearlong stats to this point…he’s done well @ Memphis. He had undeniable skill and would have provided continuity as well,

PasadenaIllini said:

Given how much NIL money I understand Brad committed to him, I'm not neutral. This was awful roster management. Compare Ben to, for example, the guys Michigan brought in for similar money and you've got to question the player evaluation of our staff, particularly since the questions about whether Ben would be able to play at this level should have been clear from his game by game stats last year.

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Honestly should have cut bait with Ben(or pushed him to a smaller role) when Coleman decided he wasnt going pro. I have a hard time believing they couldn't have gotten some deep pocket donors to cover Coleman in addition to the rest of the roster.

Coleman, Ivisic, and Morez could have covered most of your minutes at the 4/5. Way more versatile defensively.

Honestly just having Ty playing and actually giving DGL minutes would do wonders for this team alongside KJ, Riley, and Ivisic.

Morez finally started to get some tick(though now he's injured) but I think people underestimate the culture impact and how the effort all 3 of those guys play with would be contagious to the rest of the team.

They could have had one of Ty or Morez on the court at all times with DGL playing 20-25 minutes next to them. You would basically have 2 high effort guys on the court at all times.