NCAA Tournament

#477      
Let's relax a bit. B10 teams have had unbelievably tough tourney matchups up to this point. Let's break it down:

1. ILL loses to Loyola (top ten Kenpom)
2. Iowa loses (most likely) to Oregon (pac 12 reg season winner)
3. Purdue loses to UNT (team with crazy amount of tourney experience)
4. OSU loses to ORU (made it to sweet sixteen and is legit)
5. Wiconsin loses to Baylor (might win whole tourney)

Who has the Pac12 played? USC beat Drake who isn't very good and Colorado beat Georgetown who isn't very good. UCLA caught a break playing arguably the worst 6 seed. I'll give Oregon State credit because they are playing way way way above their weight class.

Tourney is all about matchups. B10 teams got the short end of the stick this year on matchups but I'd take our conference this year over any other.
The Big Ten had two # 1's and two #2's. There is no rational reason to potentially(up to Michigan at this point) not have ONE team out if nine make it to the Sweet 16. With all due respect to Oral Roberts and North Texas, the argument that a #15 seed and a #13 seed were unfavorable matchups is a reach and a crazy one at that. Let's be honest, Iowa and Illinois got stomped. I can agree that those were tough matchups, but Illinois never had one lead and never truly threatened Loyola and Iowa got thoroughly smashed. That's 4 of the top 5 teams in the conference. It remains to be seen what Michigan does.

To date, only Rutgers, Maryland and Wisconsin have had wins over reputable competition.

There's no sugar coating this. The conference is going to have to own this, take their medicine (as Ayo said) and accept the criticism, all of which has been earned.

Focusing in on Illinois, in the non conference, I believe we played three tournament teams(Baylor, Missouri and Ohio). We lost two and were one minute from dropping all three.
 
#478      

Deleted member 747903

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USC had a cupcake draw against a Drake team that split with Loyola when Drake was down 1 starter. Then took Loyola down to the wire in the MVC title game when Drake was down 2 starters, 1 of them being their PG. That is a good call.

You made my argument for me. Drake didn't have their two best players who led them to an 18-0 record. They were the worst 11 seed going by Kenpom.
 
#479      
Let's relax a bit. B10 teams have had unbelievably tough tourney matchups up to this point. Let's break it down:

1. ILL loses to Loyola (top ten Kenpom)
2. Iowa loses (most likely) to Oregon (pac 12 reg season winner)
3. Purdue loses to UNT (team with crazy amount of tourney experience)
4. OSU loses to ORU (made it to sweet sixteen and is legit)
5. Wiconsin loses to Baylor (might win whole tourney)

Who has the Pac12 played? USC beat Drake who isn't very good and Colorado beat Georgetown who isn't very good. UCLA caught a break playing arguably the worst 6 seed. I'll give Oregon State credit because they are playing way way way above their weight class.

Tourney is all about matchups. B10 teams got the short end of the stick this year on matchups but I'd take our conference this year over any other.
I agree with you that it is all about match-ups, but the inescapable common thread there is [Big 10 team] loses. If the 9 teams coming out of this conference were as good as the media liked to suggest, then the record would be quite different. Big 10 is getting it's !!! handed to it. Illinois never led against a MVC team, Iowa just got run off the floor etc.
 
#480      

Deleted member 747903

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The Big Ten had two # 1's and two #2's. There is no rational reason to potentially(up to Michigan at this point) not have ONE team out if nine make it to the Sweet 16. With all due respect to Oral Roberts and North Texas, the argument that a #15 seed and a #13 seed were unfavorable matchups is a reach and a crazy one at that. Let's be honest, Iowa and Illinois got stomped. I can agree that those were tough matchups, but Illinois never had one lead and never truly threatened Loyola and Iowa got thoroughly smashed. That's 4 of the top 5 teams in the conference. It remains to be seen what Michigan does.

To date, only Rutgers, Maryland and Wisconsin have had wins over reputable competition.

There's no sugar coating this. The conference is going to have to own this, take their medicine (as Ayo said) and accept the criticism, all of which has been earned.

Focusing in on Illinois, in the non conference, I believe we played three tournament teams(Baylor, Missouri and Ohio). We lost two and were one minute from dropping all three.

It's really not a reach. In one game, slight advantages are huge especially when those advantages are three point shooting and tournament experience. I have no doubt Ohio State would beat Oral Roberts 99 times out of a 100.

There is a reason it is widely accepted that the B10 is the best "scouted" league in the country. Perhaps the league doesn't do a good job of adjusting on the fly in games which I think is a fair criticism.
 
#481      
You made my argument for me. Drake didn't have their two best players who led them to an 18-0 record. They were the worst 11 seed going by Kenpom.
And still played that way against Loyola without them. Why credit Loyola and trash USC for results against the same Drake team?
 
#482      

Deleted member 747903

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And still played that way against Loyola without them. Why credit Loyola and trash USC for results against the same Drake team?

Not trashing USC, just saying matchups are important when evaluating the tournament and that a single elimination tournament doesn't outweigh a 20 game conference season when evaluating that conference.
 
#483      
Scottsdale, AZ
Yea, but I have to say I really admire Luka Garza's game. Old school. Really knows how to play the game of basketball.
I always root for BIG Ten teams in the BBall tournament including Garza and Iowa today. I thought the BIG Ten conference would do much better than they have. We all can make excuses about which conferences and teams are better, but no one will remember the many loses years from now. They will remember the champion and maybe the final four (for a few months).
 
#485      
I don't buy the bias argument about the Pac12. Like I stated before USC and Colorado had cupcake draws and Oregon State is obviously on a heater but they will fall back to earth.

UCLAs had a favorable draw as well. Oregon is really the only team in there that I think is legit.
Dana Altman is a hella good coach also.
 
#487      
I live in SoCal and watched PAC-12 teams play all year. My eyeballs tell me that the quality of the league isn't as high as the BIG. Obviously, they are having a nice weekend.
 
#488      
Perhaps sequestering teams in Indianapolis three-star hotels for two weeks, eating unfamiliar food, was more mentally and physically draining than anyone expected. 🤔
A coach can’t really come out and say this without it looking like whining, but I’m curious if there’s something to this. Maybe someone can ask Fran that question today.
 
#489      
Chicago, IL
The suggestion assumes the bubble thing is this year only, and wouldn’t impact the fixture.

I know I used Cade vs Ayo as the president example, and maybe that doesn’t make sense, but there are still other high profile or exciting players who aren’t NBA prospects which would be fun to watch.

Just an idea.
Fair enough. I still think that the issue is you're asking these young men to potentially risk an injury that could ruin their career before it even gets started. While that could be said of any of the tourney games, at least there's the shot at a natty making it mean something.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Just that there are reasons why it doesn't happen already.
 
#490      
I can’t help but wonder if the way B1G basketball is played is outdated. You look at these other conferences and they don’t really have a traditional big man on their teams.

6 of the top 7 teams this year (minus tOSU) had traditional big men. That’s not the way the game is played at the next level anymore and it seems like other teams/conferences are going to the “positionless” system too.

After watching a lot of the tourney it seems like it’s not called near as tight by the stripes either. Not sure if that’s just the tourney, or just further proving the fact how terribly officiated the B1G is.
 
#491      
With the number of 'upsets' happening in this round of 32, I thought it would be interesting to see how the average team seeding in the sweet 16 this year compares to previous years. For example, if the top four teams in each region made it to the sweet sixteen, the average seed of the teams would be 2.5 (each 1 seed plus each 2 seed plus each 3 seed plus each 4 seed equals 40; divide 40 by 16 and you get 2.5).

Coming into this tournament, the worst average seeding since the tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985 was 5.563 in 1986. The sweet 16 that year consisted of three #1s, two #2s, a #3, a #4, two #5s, a #6, two #7s, a #8, a #11, a #12, and a #14.

Right now, regardless of the outcomes of the games still to play today, the best average seeding for the sweet 16 this year would be 5.688; already setting the record for worst average seeding. If any or all of Abilene Christian, Ohio, LSU, Colorado, Maryland or USC win tonight, that average seeding gets even worse.

Does this show anything with any real conviction? Probably not. But I do think it just adds some mathematical evidence to what we already knew: this tournament has been the year of the upset/underdog.

If you’re curious, if ALL the remaining games end with upsets tonight, the average seeding heading into the sweet 16 would be 7.563. And honestly… at this point… that’s what I’m hoping for.
 
#492      
I am trying to figure out the Big Ten’s performance given all of the advantages

1. All games in Indiana and playing some of the games at Big Ten venues
2. Teams have experience playing without fans unlike some of the other conferences which had fans most of the year.
3. Favorable seeding 2 1 seeds and 2 seeds a 4 seed

Every team has their reasons on losing which are valid for their situation but only having 2 teams left tells me the conference needs to figure it out. No national championship in 20 years along with this performance something needs to happen. Are we all too cookie cutter I don’t know. BU tried his SFA defense but that did not work due to the fouls but in the tournament underdogs like Abilene Christain is able to play it and win a game BU was smart moving away from that for the Big Ten play. I tend to agree with others we need more out of conference games. The Big Ten already has an unbalanced schedule so losing 2 conference games would not hurt. Playing a MVC team does not hurt in the regular season. We should look to schedule a good zone team and play teams with a variety of styles that you can’t find in the Big Ten
 
#493      
How many good athletes do you see on any of the big ten teams? Illini completely out quicked Michigan and handled them easily. The game is good shooters and good athletes now. Illinois was quick by big ten standards but not by national standards.
 
#494      
Playing a MVC team does not hurt in the regular season. We should look to schedule a good zone team and play teams with a variety of styles that you can’t find in the Big Ten
I agree with you 100%, but find me a power conference coach that takes games against quality mid-majors with regularity, except Tom Izzo and Roy Williams.
 
#495      

Deleted member 747903

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Guest
I agree with you 100%, but find me a power conference coach that takes games against quality mid-majors with regularity, except Tom Izzo and Roy Williams.

I'll actually never understand why this is the case. For a team like us a loss to a mid major that is good isn't going to hurt the resume and it prepares you really well for the tourney.

Also lights a fire under your team if they lose
 
#496      
Richmond, VA
I am trying to figure out the Big Ten’s performance given all of the advantages

1. All games in Indiana and playing some of the games at Big Ten venues
2. Teams have experience playing without fans unlike some of the other conferences which had fans most of the year.
3. Favorable seeding 2 1 seeds and 2 seeds a 4 seed

Every team has their reasons on losing which are valid for their situation but only having 2 teams left tells me the conference needs to figure it out. No national championship in 20 years along with this performance something needs to happen. Are we all too cookie cutter I don’t know. BU tried his SFA defense but that did not work due to the fouls but in the tournament underdogs like Abilene Christain is able to play it and win a game BU was smart moving away from that for the Big Ten play. I tend to agree with others we need more out of conference games. The Big Ten already has an unbalanced schedule so losing 2 conference games would not hurt. Playing a MVC team does not hurt in the regular season. We should look to schedule a good zone team and play teams with a variety of styles that you can’t find in the Big Ten
Maybe B10 coaches should adapt and evolve with a plan for how to succeed in the tourney which may be different than their plan to win the conference. BU's denial pressure defense had enough success to keep in the repertoire, just not enough to be the primary defense in the B10. Come tourney time, maybe that flip flops?
 
#498      
Kelso, WA
If Michigan and Maryland lose tonight, then B1G would become first conference to get as many teams they did in and not have a single one make the Sweet 16.
Could happen. The Wolverines had a slim lead at halftime which they immediately blew as soon as the second half started.