Nebraska 20, Illinois 7 Postgame

#326      
I look at a school like Wisconsin. What advantage does Wisconsin have over Illinois? Similar location, similar academic prestige, same conference, we have more instate talent... So why can Wisconsin be consistently strong but we can't?.. Feel like Whitman should make friends and study that program, because they have been consistently strong for decades.

"Similar location... consistently strong..."

Might also want to look at Missouri, Kentucky, Iowa (and Louisville) as neigboring places with an elevated level of success over the years (or today). Go out just a bit farther and you can include Michigan and Notre Dame... on second thought, let's not do that right now. Too big of a mountain to climb.

Then, also think about roundball legacy powers like North Carolina, Duke, UCLA, and now Kansas that have risen to high levels in football polls.

Success -- hoped for by The Many... achieved by The Few.
 
#328      
"Similar location... consistently strong..."

Might also want to look at Missouri, Kentucky, Iowa (and Louisville) as neigboring places with an elevated level of success over the years (or today). Go out just a bit farther and you can include Michigan and Notre Dame... on second thought, let's not do that right now. Too big of a mountain to climb.

Then, also think about roundball legacy powers like North Carolina, Duke, UCLA, and now Kansas that have risen to high levels in football polls.

Success -- hoped for by The Many... achieved by The Few.
Let's look at how the NCAA views those programs. I've set back for 10 years and watched to many "hmmm" moments occurr. The NCAA is against us and whenever there is an opporty to keep us at bay, football or basketball, the call will align with the agenda. Tell me when I'm telling lies.
 
#329      
As awful as this team has played I still believe they can be a decent team. I believe Bielema is a very good coach and I believe we will win consistently under him. Last year was kind of fools gold. Gave us a bit of false hope.
Last year was the real deal. We were better than our record. Three flagrant calls/non-calls cost us three wins. We beat Michigan, for real.

If all the kids who left after last year came back this year, what would our record be? There’s your problem.
 
#330      
Let's also not forget, we got all that highly coveted bowl game extra practice time and experience (esp. for those taking over for our sit outs). That extra practice and experience sure hasn't seemed to help anything this season.
Or maybe we would be 10x worse today if we hadn't had those extra practices . . .

scared home alone GIF
 
#331      
Mike White was a VG coach but couldn't keep himself from bending the rules and had to go. Mac was an excellent coach here but Texas called. The worst event happened when Mac left as there was a change in Admin happening at the same time so Tepper was elevated and our chance to grab a good coach was wasted. And the whole 30 yrs of where we are now was set in motion. On top of that we had Ron Guenther as AD. Ron Turner was only interested in the IL job as a stepping stone to an NFL HC job, and he only spent enough time on recruiting to put together a good enough team to get him there. After the Sugar Bowl season we had no talent left and Turner had no NFL job either. Zook was a bad hire. In 2008 and 2009 we were 5-7 and 3-9 with far more NFL level talent than we had last year. We ended up with Beckman because Thomas couldn't keep a lid on the search, and because his reputation as a jerk was well known. Josh did what he could with Lovie, in hindsight maybe having an interim for a year while buying time to land a better coach would have been better. Maybe not who knows. BB will get 2024 and 2025 to get his program going, but Josh can't let this thing spiral down over multiple seasons or he will be out the door as well.
There is a lot to unpack there and agree with most of it- except that Zook was a bad hire- he did have the best recruiting we’ve ever had here, period. We were getting 5 star players. And it led to a Rose Bowl and beating Ohio St and Michigan at their stadiums in the same season- let that set in. Was that mostly Locksley recruiting, yes, but he brought in Locksley so a head coach gets credit for who he surrounds himself with.

I’ll take one magical season every 5 years if that is the trade we have to make
 
#332      
"Similar location... consistently strong..."

Might also want to look at Missouri, Kentucky, Iowa (and Louisville) as neigboring places with an elevated level of success over the years (or today). Go out just a bit farther and you can include Michigan and Notre Dame... on second thought, let's not do that right now. Too big of a mountain to climb.

Then, also think about roundball legacy powers like North Carolina, Duke, UCLA, and now Kansas that have risen to high levels in football polls.

Success -- hoped for by The Many... achieved by The Few.
I agree with the sentiment that in college football the right coach (who surrounds himself with the right assistants) can completely turn around a program and win no matter the conference- those are all good examples.

The only big difference I see in those schools is not having a big time metro area in their state with powerhouse programs recruiting it- part of our issue historically has been the best kids in Chicago all have ND, Mich, OSU recruiting them hard. The periods we’ve had recruiting success have been when we’ve made in roads in other recruiting hot beds- Locksley had D.C. - we’ve had some runs in FL, etc. If we can’t establish a recruiting foothold in a couple of areas that will be consistent - it’s hard to maintain success and then recruit more nationally. Chicago will likely never be that for us
 
#333      

MDchicago

Lake Norman NC
So what the heck is Wisconsin doing? Feel like Whitman should make friends and study that program, because they have been consistently strong for decades. We appear to be trying to hire as many Wisconsin coaches as possible, but something going on in Madison is just different. We need to emulate it.

While Bucky has been good for a while now in both sports, I'm old enough to remember thinking of them as a doormat or mediocrity (at best) in both sports back in the '80s.

Looking back at their history, I see that I was pretty much right (they were better than .500 in B10 play in basketball 7x in the 50 years before hiring Dick Bennett in 1995 and in B10 football 17x in the 50 years before hiring Barry Alvarez in 1990). (Sidebar, but was a bit surprised to see that Wisconsin has not won a B10 fb championship since Bielema led them to three titles in a row 2010-2012, though they have had four title game appearances since then.)

So that turnaround probably makes they an even better model to look to. I do think that longevity and stability once you think you have the right team in place is a big part of the equation, but requires buy-in and commitment from each of the institution, AD and the coach. Wisconsin had only two ADs between 1989 and 2021, which encompassed the entire turnaround period and helped things take root.
 
#334      
sports is the only place in the world where people think the paying customer owes something to the performers and not the other way around.

Sports is entertainment, no different from a movie, play, or concert. If I'm not entertained I don't owe a damn thing to the team. If I'm not excited, it is not my job to get up anyway to help the team out.

There are always the diehards, but what exactly do you expect with Illini football? Look at Oregon football's results. They've had 2 seasons in the last 20 years where they were under .500, and in that time span they've had 12 seasons with double digit wins. Oh you think they get more excited about football? Illinois on the other hand, over that same period we've had 5 seasons over .500 (only once back to back) and one double digit win season. 1 conference title over that period compared to Oregon's 8. If you want to look at Washington, they struggled the first half of that 20 year period, but since 2010 they've been better than .500 11 of 12 years (i've skipped the covid year in all these counts). They've had 3 conference titles and 4 double digit win seasons in that 12 years too.

So if I haven't made it abundantly clear, I don't see how anyone can expect wild support when over the last 41 years, we're going all the way back to the 1983 Rose Bowl team, over 41 years Illini football has won 43% of their games. We've won 3 conference championships, in 41 years. We've only had 14 seasons (34%) over .500 and 9 of those were in the prior millennium. All of our last 6 coaches have left with a sub .500 record and Bielema is at .500 exactly currently. So quite frankly it's a little shocking we have any fan support at all. Quite frankly it was depressing looking this up to see just how bad it was. If I factored out all of the cupcake wins, dear lord.

I consider myself extremely lucky, we were 23-12 for my 3 years on campus. The most wins anyone has been able to see in a 4 year period in Champaign was 30 in the late 80s/early 90s. If you were unlucky enough to graduate in 2006, you got to see 8 wins over your time at the fair alma mater. On average you got to see 19.4 wins over your 4 years.

So there, I win depressing post of the year award. But it always annoys me when people act like fans owe the team something.
You certainly don't owe the team anything. But the argument can be made that a fanbase full of guys like you pretty much takes away any chance of an actual home field advantage.
 
#335      
I agree with the sentiment that in college football the right coach (who surrounds himself with the right assistants) can completely turn around a program and win no matter the conference- those are all good examples.

The only big difference I see in those schools is not having a big time metro area in their state with powerhouse programs recruiting it- part of our issue historically has been the best kids in Chicago all have ND, Mich, OSU recruiting them hard. The periods we’ve had recruiting success have been when we’ve made in roads in other recruiting hot beds- Locksley had D.C. - we’ve had some runs in FL, etc. If we can’t establish a recruiting foothold in a couple of areas that will be consistent - it’s hard to maintain success and then recruit more nationally. Chicago will likely never be that for us
Well actually it doesn't really fit what I was looking at when I called out Wisconsin's success. Michigan and Notre Dame have been football powers for a century, so they can be excluded from any comparison to us. Iowa has sustained mediocrity with flashes of success, which quite frankly I'd be thrilled with, but they've had 2 coaches over the last 44 years. Sure that would be great, but I don't think it's realistic. Kentucky, Missouri, and Louisville haven't sustained success.

When you look at Wisconsin, I think the answer might be their Oline. Someone said recruiting. Not really, they've only had a top 25 recruiting class twice since 2000. They typically are in the 30s or low 40s. They do tend to have more instate loyalty, but still lose plenty of top guys. What they are consistent good at is landing big viking Olinemen from the great white north. In fact I found an article by their people listing their highest rated offensive recruits of all time, 12 of the top 14 were Olinemen.

When I think of Wisconsin I think of RBs. And while the NFL and NCAA are very different games, they've had a lot of studs in college not be great in the NFL. Melvin Gordon has not lived up to his first round price, James White was a specialist, Montee Ball was a bust, John Clay did nothing, even Ron Dayne was more a backup in the pros. In fact there has been a stigma on Wisconsin RBs in the NFL, why? because their offensive line in college has been so dominant, anyone could do what the accomplished in college. Bummer for the NFL, but great for college.

It looks like Bielema is trying to put that same level of interest in the Oline, it obviously has done nothing this year. But if we can develop a consistent string of beasts that can allow any RB to look good while giving our QB the time to scan the field, it makes life much easier for your offense.
 
#336      
Well actually it doesn't really fit what I was looking at when I called out Wisconsin's success. Michigan and Notre Dame have been football powers for a century, so they can be excluded from any comparison to us. Iowa has sustained mediocrity with flashes of success, which quite frankly I'd be thrilled with, but they've had 2 coaches over the last 44 years. Sure that would be great, but I don't think it's realistic. Kentucky, Missouri, and Louisville haven't sustained success.

When you look at Wisconsin, I think the answer might be their Oline. Someone said recruiting. Not really, they've only had a top 25 recruiting class twice since 2000. They typically are in the 30s or low 40s. They do tend to have more instate loyalty, but still lose plenty of top guys. What they are consistent good at is landing big viking Olinemen from the great white north. In fact I found an article by their people listing their highest rated offensive recruits of all time, 12 of the top 14 were Olinemen.

When I think of Wisconsin I think of RBs. And while the NFL and NCAA are very different games, they've had a lot of studs in college not be great in the NFL. Melvin Gordon has not lived up to his first round price, James White was a specialist, Montee Ball was a bust, John Clay did nothing, even Ron Dayne was more a backup in the pros. In fact there has been a stigma on Wisconsin RBs in the NFL, why? because their offensive line in college has been so dominant, anyone could do what the accomplished in college. Bummer for the NFL, but great for college.

It looks like Bielema is trying to put that same level of interest in the Oline, it obviously has done nothing this year. But if we can develop a consistent string of beasts that can allow any RB to look good while giving our QB the time to scan the field, it makes life much easier for your offense.
I for one would not be opposed to bringing in a recruiter for the Scandinavian region. Start a pipeline of 6'10" 300lb viking behemoths. Plus, it shouldn't be too hard to recruit them- just make sure they visit campus closest to winter, blast black metal, have tankards of alcohol and lutefisk at the ready, and tell them they can have all this every day and all you're asking them to do is throw the puny guys in front of them out of the way.
 
#337      

GrayGhost77

Centennial, CO
I for one would not be opposed to bringing in a recruiter for the Scandinavian region. Start a pipeline of 6'10" 300lb viking behemoths. Plus, it shouldn't be too hard to recruit them- just make sure they visit campus closest to winter, blast black metal, have tankards of alcohol and lutefisk at the ready, and tell them they can have all this every day and all you're asking them to do is throw the puny guys in front of them out of the way.
Amon Amarth and flagons of mead. I could get behind that.
 
#338      
When you look at Wisconsin, I think the answer might be their Oline. Someone said recruiting. Not really, they've only had a top 25 recruiting class twice since 2000. They typically are in the 30s or low 40s.

And what are we typically? Something like 60s-80s. Big difference.

Especially when you consider the quality of their 3 star recruits compared to ours...even when they are the exact same rank..the quality is usually not close.
 
#339      

Illini4Chief

TENNESSEE
There is a lot to unpack there and agree with most of it- except that Zook was a bad hire- he did have the best recruiting we’ve ever had here, period. We were getting 5 star players. And it led to a Rose Bowl and beating Ohio St and Michigan at their stadiums in the same season- let that set in. Was that mostly Locksley recruiting, yes, but he brought in Locksley so a head coach gets credit for who he surrounds himself with.

I’ll take one magical season every 5 years if that is the trade we have to make
Zook...beat Ohio State at Ohio State.....made the Rose Bowl too..........
 
#340      
I am not going to write BB off after a 2-4 start his 3rd season. BB outperformed expections season one 5-7 and season two 8-5 with bowl. Our offensive and defensive lines have been much worse than last year. Hopefully BB can fix this next year. The portal makes rapid improvement possible.

Beckman 2-10, 4-8, 6-7 (fired before start of season 4)
Lovie 3-9, 2-10, and 4-8
Ron Zook 2-9, 2-10, 9-4 Rose Bowl
Mike White 3-7, 7-4, 7-5 Liberty Bowl. --- Mike was great fun. We never should have fired him. Mackovic took his recruits and went 6-6.10-2, 8-4
 
#341      
I am not going to write BB off after a 2-4 start his 3rd season. BB outperformed expections season one 5-7 and season two 8-5 with bowl. Our offensive and defensive lines have been much worse than last year. Hopefully BB can fix this next year. The portal makes rapid improvement possible.

Beckman 2-10, 4-8, 6-7 (fired before start of season 4)
Lovie 3-9, 2-10, and 4-8
Ron Zook 2-9, 2-10, 9-4 Rose Bowl
Mike White 3-7, 7-4, 7-5 Liberty Bowl. --- Mike was great fun. We never should have fired him. Mackovic took his recruits and went 6-6.10-2, 8-4
In seven years White's program was put on probation by the B10 in 1981 (Dave Wilson) and by the NCAA in 1984 (Elton and Delton) and 1987 (Hart Lee Dykes), That was after being fired at Cal for a series of academic and recruiting violations. I think that he actually resigned rather than be fired from Illinois.
 
#342      

the national

the Front Range
Mood What GIF by NBC

It was absolutely worse under Mike Thomas. He hired Tim Beckman and look how that turned out! You can't compare the actual records of Whitman to Thomas because they came into much different scenarios. The program was not in shambles when Thomas took over, but it was a dumpster fire when Josh came in to try to clean up the mess and scandals of the Thomas administration.

Both football and basketball tanked under Thomas. And without the Beckman scandal, I doubt Thomas would have been fired, so he wasn't run off because he was an outsider. So yes, it was completely worse under Thomas across the board.
Bernie Sanders Applause GIF by Election 2016
 
#343      
Story time.

My buddy from HS is an over the road trucker for Wal-Mart. He typically drives a big triangle route from KC MO out to California Central Valley, loads up on veggies, brings those up to Oregon and Washington State, then gets a load from here and heads back to the Midwest, target locations can vary.

One time he picked up a truckload of no-label cheese wheels from the Yakima area. And he was headed to Wisconsin.

“Where they’ll brand it and sell it as Wisconsin Cheese.”

As Paul Harvey used to say … And now you know… the rest of the story.
its the cheese