Nebraska 83, Illinois 80 Postgame

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#776      
You literally just changed the criteria of what you were asking. You asked for upsets, I gave you upsets. Now you want marquee or “signature” wins? Okay how about this:

- 19/20 Top 5 Michigan at home
- 20/21 Top 10 Duke away
- 20/21 #2 Michigan away
- 20/21 Big 10 Championship game
- 22/23 Top 10 UCLA neutral
- 22/23 #2 Texas neutral
- 23/24 Big 10 Championship game
- 23/24 Iowa State tournament
- 24/25 Top 10 Oregon away

If you’re going to argue from this standpoint, at least argue in good faith. Stop moving the goalposts.
Did he remember the Groce years. I think BU has things he needs to change. For instance I don’t trust his analytic approach all the time and sometimes his stubbornness in game. But if he figures out some small adjustments he moves from a excellent coach to elite

BU has to be one of our best coaches all time (needs a few more years and a final four) to move up
 
#777      
The crazy part is that there's potentially so many others as well:

- the win over MSU where Ayo makes back to back 3s.
- Ayo comes back and we knock off a top 10 PSU team on the road
- Kofi blocks Garza at the buzzer right before the pandemic
- both the wins over Iowa in 2021
- the win @OSU, Ayo's first game back after the broken nose
- the win over Iowa to clinch the B10 title

There's so many "signature wins" that aren't signature wins simply due to the sheer amount.
The psychosis this board has fallen into after a buzzer beater loss to a top 20 team in December, while rooting for a team that would be a 3 seed if the tourney started today, is insane.
 
#778      
The psychosis this board has fallen into after a buzzer beater loss to a top 20 team in December, while rooting for a team that would be a 3 seed if the tourney started today, is insane.
Maybe I missed something but why 3 seed? We just lost as 13th in the AP Poll. We are 13th in NET. This team isn't getting a 3-seed if it started today.
 
#781      
I don’t agree with a majority of your post. And optic call outs to me never hit the mark because I fully understand I don’t know any of the context.

But… I do wish OA and Alexander were the two sitting next to Brad. I’m sure it’s a player/coach relationship thing where those two can better postion coach down the bench, but I agree sometimes I don’t love that look
Show me one out of bounds plays that we haven't just stood with 4 post ups calling for the ball this year! Not a single time have we tried to run a play.

Using an app, post a screenshot of what our offense looks like, just the base, and simple actions!

Defense, Im not even gonna address, we get lost non-stop, allowing ourselves to get screened, following cuts, or allowing tight curls and back door.

Brad can get talent, but thats it
 
#782      
The crazy part is that there's potentially so many others as well:

- the win over MSU where Ayo makes back to back 3s.
- Ayo comes back and we knock off a top 10 PSU team on the road
- Kofi blocks Garza at the buzzer right before the pandemic
- both the wins over Iowa in 2021
- the win @OSU, Ayo's first game back after the broken nose
- the win over Iowa to clinch the B10 title

There's so many "signature wins" that aren't signature wins simply due to the sheer amount.

I’ll add the “arrival” games as well. The freshmen year Ayo at the end on the road against OSU was when I thought progress of a good program was being built.
 
#786      
Some of our fans must think that no Top 25 team ever loses at home (to another Top 25 team no less) or loses any game they were "supposed to win". But if you look at any given season, there are countless examples of this. Since it's not your team, though, you don't fixate on it or think about it for days, blowing it out of proportion in your mind. Neutral fans aren't going to think Illinois is a terrible team after losing a close game to undefeated #23 Nebraska.
 
#787      
Some of our fans must think that no Top 25 team ever loses at home (to another Top 25 team no less) or loses any game they were "supposed to win". But if you look at any given season, there are countless examples of this. Since it's not your team, though, you don't fixate on it or think about it for days, blowing it out of proportion in your mind. Neutral fans aren't going to think Illinois is a terrible team after losing a close game to undefeated #23 Nebraska.
Just an example out of the hat… Kansas lost to a bad Dayton team on a similar buzzer beater the same year they won their last national title.
 
#788      
Underwood’s record vs AP top 12 (Final post tourney poll)

2024-25: 1-7
2023-24: 1-5
2022-23: 2-1
2021-22: 0-3
2020-21: 5-2
2019-20: 0-4
2018-19: 1-2
2017-18: 0-4

2020-21 was great. Rest…not so much.

Recency bias but people see the 4-16 last 4 seasons and think it’s not good enough as far as winning big games
 
#789      
I think the polarization comes from people who look at metrics/stats and those who go by an eye test of sorts.

We clearly are hitting the numbers of on offense the last few years. But they eye test comes up short for many people when they see poor shooting from three, poor out of bounds plays, and a lack of success coming out of time outs. Quite frankly, with the lack of ball movement, we often just aren't that fun to watch. So we get a gaudy number on the metrics, but there's a nagging suspicion that the eye test failures will result in some real bad outings, which we have seen. Right or wrong, there's a sense by many that we're not capable of making a 3 or 4 game run against good teams.

I also think the eye test fails on the hustle and energy fronts. I've had a couple back and forths on this board in the last week and I can see that some people just don't seem to understand the concept the same way I do. If you're claiming Wagler is an EDG and your argument is his offensive stats, then you have a different sense than me of what it means.

Many of us don't see an edge with this team. You can't look at numbers to support it. It's just a gut more than anything.

Brad Underwood is a good coach. I don't want him to be fired, but I do think he's got a lot of growing to do if he's going to be classified as a guy who really makes a difference in terms of winning and losing any given night. He brings no more to the table there than 30 or 40 other guys. So my hope is that he sticks around, becomes better, and that we also catch some post season breaks.
 
#790      
I don't think any fans here think we're a "terrible" team.

However, lots of people think we're terrible on defense. What do you think? Are we terrible on defense? Do you care if we're terrible on defense?
 
#791      
It is a Big 10 game. It counts in the standings. No Big 10 came should be a trap game. Play 1 game at a time.
 
#792      
I'm not saying Brad should be fired because if we're honest, that's just not going to happen. That said, I do think this sort of pattern has played out over multiple seasons now. I will say that I love what Brad has done for our program. I am ecstatic that we are complaining about consistently being in the top 5 of the B1G conference and going to the NCAA tourney year in and year out. That was a pipe dream for the decade or so before Brad got here. I also think that if anyone needs to get hyped up or motivated, Brad does a heck of a job showing a garbage can whose boss and also defends his players and hypes them up publicly so he really has been fantastic for us.

All that said, this appears to be the ceiling. Maybe I'm wrong. I think this is similar to how KU fans felt about Self for the first 5 years until he finally won a natty. I think I just have to accept that Brad is good - not great - and that our on court results are going to be in line with that. To me, it's clear that the one big area of weakness (because the large majority of things BU does at a very high level) comparing BU to the elite (used somewhat tongue in cheek) HCs around the country is that most of them are significantly stronger from an Xs/Os standpoint. Again, I'm so much. happier with where we are at now than how terrible the lost 2010 decade was, but it's still frustrating to feel like we are so close and we just won't be able to do it.

Very, very well said …
 
#793      
I'm not saying Brad should be fired because if we're honest, that's just not going to happen. That said, I do think this sort of pattern has played out over multiple seasons now. I will say that I love what Brad has done for our program. I am ecstatic that we are complaining about consistently being in the top 5 of the B1G conference and going to the NCAA tourney year in and year out. That was a pipe dream for the decade or so before Brad got here. I also think that if anyone needs to get hyped up or motivated, Brad does a heck of a job showing a garbage can whose boss and also defends his players and hypes them up publicly so he really has been fantastic for us.

All that said, this appears to be the ceiling. Maybe I'm wrong. I think this is similar to how KU fans felt about Self for the first 5 years until he finally won a natty. I think I just have to accept that Brad is good - not great - and that our on court results are going to be in line with that. To me, it's clear that the one big area of weakness (because the large majority of things BU does at a very high level) comparing BU to the elite (used somewhat tongue in cheek) HCs around the country is that most of them are significantly stronger from an Xs/Os standpoint. Again, I'm so much. happier with where we are at now than how terrible the lost 2010 decade was, but it's still frustrating to feel like we are so close and we just won't be able to do it.

Do you think Painter would classify here?

2 second weekend in his first 11 at Purdue. And a multi year tournament hiatus in the middle included.

Kelvin Sampson one sweet 16 his first 8 years at Oklahoma

Jay Wright sweet 16 only twice in first 8 years.

I’d just be super careful about capping a coach’s ceiling on what’s possible when they continually make the tournament as a single digit seeds.
 
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#794      
I think this is our ceiling if nothing changes. I don’t think this is our ceiling Brad decides to spend the next couple summers working on some killer plays/motions or hires someone who can do that (and then actually let them do it)
 
#795      
9 layups in the second half for the Huskers - no need to over analyze this loss.
This is a broader WTF than just one loss for me. I am watching teams like Arizona and Michigan smoke teams, and watching us fumble basic things against teams that are worse than us (on paper). We are loaded, but we do not play like a team. Not yet anyway. Drives me insane.
 
#796      
Andy Samberg GIF
 
#797      
Do you think Painter would classify here?

2 second weekend in his first 11 at Purdue. And a multi year tournament hiatus in the middle included.

Kelvin Sampson one sweet 16 his first 8 years at Oklahoma

Jay Wright sweet 16 only twice in first 8 years.

I’d just be super careful about capping a coach’s ceiling on what’s possible when they continually make the tournament as a single digit seeds.
This is so well said....
 
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