New Mexico State 74, Illinois 69 POSTGAME

ChiefIllini · Dec 20, 2017

Theres a lot of different thoughts on this season so far. I think its hard to just give BU and Co. a pass because this is year one. He doesn't seem to think that so I wont either.

Its been a heavily disappointing season so far. We are about 2 made free throws and a couple completed in bound passes away from having zero (or at least a couple fewer) losses. I know theres some sort of saying that good teams keep games close and win, bad teams keep games close and lose (its more elegant but thats the jist) but compared to how we lost to teams in the Groce era, these are improvements (whether you want to think of a loss as good or not).

No reason to think this team is capable of being a top half B1G THIS YEAR. Question is when is this improvement going to happen, if it even does, cause there has been very very little over the first thirdish of the schedule.

Second and Chalmers · Dec 20, 2017

Verified Insider said:
I'm expecting this team to win ~8 conference games.

Verified Insider said:
Try for a moment to view this from the lens of somebody who figured from the get-go that this season was going to be a painful learning experience.

I again simply point to the media and the B1G coaches.

See the problem here?

The media picked us 12th, I'm pointing out that we're in dead last at the moment, and you're expecting us to defy those predictions and end up around 9th.

And I resume my argument that we're never going to be picked into the comfortable tournament places by the preseason prognosticators until we have, at a minimum, demonstrated that level in a sustained way in the prior season.

Deleted member 631370 · Dec 20, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
See the problem here?

The media picked us 12th, I'm pointing out that we're in dead last at the moment, and you're expecting us to defy those predictions and end up around 9th.

And I resume my argument that we're never going to be picked into the comfortable tournament places by the preseason prognosticators until we have, at a minimum, demonstrated that level in a sustained way in the prior season.

A range of 6 to 10 wins can put us anywhere from 12th to 6th. Generally, I think we'll finish 9th or 10th -- comfortably outside of the NCAA tournament.

That's slightly better than the media prediction of 12th. But I can completely understand why the media picked us 12th. I came into this season a bit more optimistic than the media, but the difference was a difference in degree and not kind.

And in terms of how the prognosticators will pick for next season.......that heavily depends on how this team finishes the season. Unfortunately for us, B1G play starts @ NW, Maryland, @ Minnesota, @ Michigan. But say we win 6 of our last 10. Or 8 of our last 14. We show progress and growth going into next season and return virtually the entire roster + a 5* PG.......you're going to see most prognosticators picking us to make the tournament next year.

But that depends on how this season ends. As I've said for weeks......this is a conversation better had in March.

Ransom Stoddard · Dec 21, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
See the problem here?

The media picked us 12th, I'm pointing out that we're in dead last at the moment, and you're expecting us to defy those predictions and end up around 9th.

To be nitpicky, we're tied for 12th (after only 2 games) with Rutgers and Iowa. We're also only 2 games out of first. See how silly it is to make statements like that this early in conference play? It's like being worried that the Cubs are in last in the division on April 25th.

We could finish 8-10 in conference and probably be around 9th. I don't know if there are 8 B1G wins on the schedule right now, probably closer to 6, but even 6 wins is probably 11th place, +/- 1. There are 2 great teams in the league right now, a pack of 8 behind them, and then the bottom 4, which, unfortunately, we look to be one of, but so what, this team is fun to watch.

And I resume my argument that we're never going to be picked into the comfortable tournament places by the preseason prognosticators until we have, at a minimum, demonstrated that level in a sustained way in the prior season.

First, you never stopped your argument, so there's nothing to resume.

Second, where the preseason prognosticators pick us has absolutely no bearing on what actually takes place on the basketball court or what the resume looks like in March.

Illiini · Dec 21, 2017

Simple: It doesn't matter what has happened last year. Or the year before. Or before that. Different coach, different teams.

Second, pundits all pick Illinois for a low finish. Pundits have a herd mentality. There's safety in numbers. Yes, they might all be onto the same thing, but they're also not going to stray too far from the herd. The risks are too high. Pick a team to do something out of the mainstream and get it wrong, "boy, is he stupid." On the other hand, if a team performs other than the expectations of the herd, well, then it's "well, that was unexpected. Nobody saw that coming." Remember, the Vega was a Motor Trend "car of the year." We all know how that turned out.

As for this year, we lost those games not by how we can play but how we did play. I don't know why this team has come out flat, but we know they have the skills. They haven't shown the attitude. And I think that's what frustrates Underwood. He knows what this team today could be doing, and is right in saying at this point, their success, or lack of it, is on them. There's only so many trash cans that can die for their sins.

Ransom Stoddard · Dec 21, 2017

alaskaillini · Dec 21, 2017

Verified Insider said:
Second, on narrative, you shouldn't assume that one's assessment of the play on the floor is automatically tainted by either support for or opposition to the coach.

I think this has been true on this board for some time. The greater the opposition to Groce the last few years, the higher the standards he was held to. BU is rightfully in his honeymoon time.

Nonetheless, I think S&C has jumped the shark here for the reasons you stated, VI.

PJD86 · Dec 21, 2017

My expectations were pretty much in line with some or all of what most of you guys have said, probably align closest with VI but I think my biggest disappointment, so far, is I don't see game to game improvement as a team. I see individual guys who are hot and cold, up and down. But as I have said 400 times, I expected this to be a barely in the NIT team this year, and next year was a tourney shot.

So record expectations, seem to be right on, although I don't like the last few games much.

All that said, we have time to get it in gear, lets start with Mizzou. NMSU was a game the talent on this team should have won, IMHO.

I still think we have the right coach, I'm on board!

BananaShampoo · Dec 21, 2017

PJD86 said:
My expectations were pretty much in line with some or all of what most of you guys have said, probably align closest with VI but I think my biggest disappointment, so far, is I don't see game to game improvement as a team. I see individual guys who are hot and cold, up and down. But as I have said 400 times, I expected this to be a barely in the NIT team this year, and next year was a tourney shot.

So record expectations, seem to be right on, although I don't like the last few games much.

All that said, we have time to get it in gear, lets start with Mizzou. NMSU was a game the talent on this team should have won, IMHO.

I still think we have the right coach, I'm on board!

If anyone was hoping to see linear, game to game progression they are going to be disappointed. It's more like stock market - up and down with a general upward trend, and I think that's what we're seeing. It's still early to tell fully, though. It will be easier to see once we are solidly into B1G play as our level of competition will be more consistent.

PJD86 · Dec 21, 2017

yeah fair point, I don't disagree with that

Obelix · Dec 21, 2017

Second and Chalmers said:
And I resume my argument that we're never going to be picked into the comfortable tournament places by the preseason prognosticators until we have, at a minimum, demonstrated that level in a sustained way in the prior season.

You can resume the argument as long as want, but is simply not true! You keep making the same argument that has already proven wrong.

2010-11 - Wrong! Illini projected in tournament in pre-season

Not only is the 2010-11 season a prime example you are wrong, but the 1999-00 season as well. In the previous year (1998-99) the Illini finished one of their worst season's ever, finishing 14-18 overall and dead last in the conference at 3-13. Yet, the next season the Illini were very comfortably in every pre-season poll, starting at #16 in AP pre-season poll.

The answer is again simple, talent! Despite no improving, actually regressing, the previous year.

FeelYourPaign · Dec 21, 2017

TALKTOCHUCK said:
Disagreeing opinions make this board fun. I think this team has shown improvement but hasn't figured out who will lead to a victory in the clutch. Underwood has a system, a real system. Therefore this is going to take time to fully implement. I also find it bizarre that Underwood doesn't understand why this team comes out not ready to play. Obviously JFG had this problem. Maybe the new staff can figure this problem out, I think it would add 4 wins per year.

Not to be too much of a smart-aleck, but it might have created 4 wins ALREADY

Illini B-Ball Fan · Dec 22, 2017

tv2 said:
Three months is simply not enough time to rid of bad habits, overcoming the fact that the competition is stronger, not much time to practice between games, or learn a new system. A 6' 4" guard cannot just drive down the middle as they did in high school.

Besides that, not yet mentioned is that most improvement, in General, occurs fresh to sophomore years, not soph to jr, or jr to senior. (Of course there are exceptions.)

Just like in marriage, one cannot legislate another to grow and change. He can only do that himself. In other wards coach BU cannot magically force one to change, the players have to rid bad habits themselves, through hard work, which I am sure they are doing.

Even thus far, if only 4 or so bad plays were altered, we would be 10-3 or 11-2. Being that close is hardly a bad team.

If we can recruit some big time 4s and 5s for next year, we will be so much better.

I am sticking with BU.

Go Illini

tv2

Dr. Phil from TV - is that you? Seriously, we will be sticking with BU for quite awhile.

DB11Headband · Dec 22, 2017

tv2 said:
Never watch him. Seems some here are ready to dump Coach BU.

I am not sure, if I was a high school senior, that I would want to come after witnessing the players being dumped on. I have seen very little encouragement to lift their spirits. I am sure they don't mean to make mistakes, but they are young, away from home, and could use some positives.

Standing by Coach BU and the team.

tv2

"Being dumped on"??? Come on. This is B1G basketball. Look around the country-most top coaches are not afraid to get in their players' faces during a game. It's refreshing to have a coach willing to get in a player's face during games. If they can't take a little bit of that, then they probably shouldn't be playing at a high-major school. Just because we haven't had a coach do that in 15 years doesn't make it wrong.

blmillini · Dec 22, 2017

tv2 said:
Never watch him. Seems some here are ready to dump Coach BU.

I am not sure, if I was a high school senior, that I would want to come after witnessing the players being dumped on. I have seen very little encouragement to lift their spirits. I am sure they don't mean to make mistakes, but they are young, away from home, and could use some positives.

Standing by Coach BU and the team.

tv2

Seriously? This isn't pee wee basketball.

Ransom Stoddard · Dec 22, 2017

tv2 said:
Never watch him. Seems some here are ready to dump Coach BU.

I am not sure, if I was a high school senior, that I would want to come after witnessing the players being dumped on. I have seen very little encouragement to lift their spirits. I am sure they don't mean to make mistakes, but they are young, away from home, and could use some positives.

Standing by Coach BU and the team.

tv2

Confused. If you stand by Coach BU, why would high school seniors not want to come to UIUC?

JFGsCoffeeMug · Dec 22, 2017

I think he's saying it's a bad look when Illinois fans bag on their own players.

Unfortunately, that's just a reality of sports fandom. Individual fans do not necessarily represent the fanbase as a whole, and players need to have thick skin (especially in the era of social media).

blmillini · Dec 22, 2017

tv2 said:
So far I have seen about 3 posts that encouraged the players. The rest are already on their tails after only 3 months.

I sure would not come here after seeing what we do to our new, young players. Seems our attitude is one way when recruiting, then the opposite right after they arrive.

Stickin with the Illini and players.

tv2

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were referring to the coaching staff not the delusional on here.

Ransom Stoddard · Dec 23, 2017

blmillini said:
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. I thought you were referring to the coaching staff not the delusional on here.

Same here--he started with Underwood, goes to "players being dumped on" without identifying fans, then goes back to Underwood.

Fans everywhere complain about players, it's just the way things are, it happens in high-level HS programs as well. I'm not saying its right, but it isn't something unique to UIUC or this year, or anything else. Complaining about it is like complaining about gravity.

Deleted member 4333 · Dec 23, 2017

I wouldn't mind gravity if it just wouldn't make me weigh so much.

New Mexico State 74, Illinois 69 POSTGAME

ChiefIllini

Second and Chalmers

Deleted member 631370

Guest

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

Illiini

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

alaskaillini

PJD86

BananaShampoo

Captain 'Paign

PJD86

Obelix

FeelYourPaign

Illini B-Ball Fan

DB11Headband

blmillini

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

JFGsCoffeeMug

BU:1 Trash cans:0

blmillini

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest

Deleted member 4333

Guest