Northwestern 73, Illinois 60 Postgame

Status
Not open for further replies.
#377      
If you look at the NW post-game thread, you'd believe half of our fans would pack his bags for him.

(I am not one)
I am one, sick of his temper tantrums and belittling players. How many of you folks would like your boss screaming in your face like he does? No one responds well to that treatment. He picked these recruits and portal players so it's on him so quit acting like Bob Knight and coach.
 
#378      
And at least 2 of the 3 last night were passes directly to the defense. Unforced turnovers used to mean a whole lot of laps or stairs to run. I don't know what they get to do these days.
And it could be poor memory or exaggerated memory, but it seemed like he wasn't the only one. I feel like I can recall 5 literally skip passes into the arms of the defenders....like horribly obvious passes straight to the defenders. ugh.
 
#379      
A lot of comments about poor three point shooting making the offense look bad, which I wholeheartedly agree with. You know what a good solution to poor three point shooting that is hurting a team offensively usually is? Stop shooting 30 of them a game! When Houston cleaned our clock in the tournament last year, the staff rightly pointed out their length that made it tough to guard them and they slashed their way to the basket time and again, and it made them tough defenders who bothered our ability to run our offense. So, again, rightfully the staff went out and got some long, slasher type athletes to build a re-worked roster with. Now, we go into games and stand around at the three point line, have our 6'10" forward at the point on offense and brick three after three. No slashing to the basket, not smothering D since Texas. What am I missing? We heard how Mayer and TJ and Skyy and Epps and RJ and whoever else could bring the ball up and initiate offense. Haven't seen that at all, no pushing the ball in transition, and the half court offense? Yikes. 5 out has turned into 5 standing around the arc. No cutting, no backdoors, no switching things up and feeding the post for an inside out look. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the myriad problems - that existed in all three of the UCLA, Virginia, and Texas games to varying degrees - getting resolved during the B10 season. Too late for that now. At least in those mentioned games the team hustled. Haven't even seen that since Texas. Piper had to be right in his internal chemistry comments early on, and we are seeing it play out on the court now.
 
#380      
I am one, sick of his temper tantrums and belittling players. How many of you folks would like your boss screaming in your face like he does? No one responds well to that treatment. He picked these recruits and portal players so it's on him so quit acting like Bob Knight and coach.
Most use the comparison with a boss, and I understand why.

But if you saw a respected member of the community, screaming, pointing, and cursing in someone's face like BU does in nearly ANY other scenario (restaurant, sidewalk, church, even Walmart), someone would call the cops.

Then, an onlooker next to you says... "Don't dial the police, he's trying to motivate. It's tough love. He's trying to reach them. He asked his grown son to do something and his son attempted, but he did it wrong. It's a teaching moment."

Forget era, forget coaching style, forget "toughness". Try dignity. Try true leadership. Especially in front of 15,000 onlookers. I thought the "Pizza Hut parking lot" was for the other team.
 
#381      
Painful
Seeing clips of the team last year come back from being down to NU seemed like 100 years ago
 
#383      

Cook

Richmond, VA
I am one, sick of his temper tantrums and belittling players. How many of you folks would like your boss screaming in your face like he does? No one responds well to that treatment. He picked these recruits and portal players so it's on him so quit acting like Bob Knight and coach.
Big fan of BU, but I've stated previously that he really does need to dial it back or channel it some other way. In addition to lots of good reasons to exhibit more composure, how about accepting that it's not effective and isn't producing the outcome he wants.
I'm also curious if he snaps off like that just as much during practices too, or is it only at games...
 
#385      

JJE

Bethalto, IL
I am one, sick of his temper tantrums and belittling players. How many of you folks would like your boss screaming in your face like he does? No one responds well to that treatment. He picked these recruits and portal players so it's on him so quit acting like Bob Knight and coach.
Lol. Underwood is the best coach we've had in 15 years and one of the best coaches in the country. Yes, he recruited these players, but you left out that they chose to play for him fully knowing how he coaches.
 
#386      
Drunk Like A Boss GIF


This team isn't helping my New Years resolution....
 
#388      
Previous teams played hard for him, didn't complain, and were successful. The previous Illinois teams that weren't successful lacked talent. It's literally this group that has a problem.
 
#389      

the national

the Front Range
You can hold someone accountable without being a loudmouth jerk. Underwood looks like a fool, not a passionate coach.
That’s your opinion. You’re entitled to it. I don’t agree. I don’t think he looks like a fool within the context of our team’s performance. I wouldn’t use his approach but I see no issue with it.

As such, I’m sure other schools have him on their short list, including Texas. His time down there at SFAustin garnered alot of interest. He’s a good coach. Until he gets a s16 or e8, he won’t be a great coach. I think it’s a matter of time before he does. Keep in mind, Illinois was a tough job when he came here. His turnaround here shows his philosophy is effective.

Last note, I’d prefer a firey coach over a cheerleader coach everyday. Don’t get me wrong, JFG was a great dude but I don’t want to go back to that.
 
#391      
I am one, sick of his temper tantrums and belittling players. How many of you folks would like your boss screaming in your face like he does? No one responds well to that treatment. He picked these recruits and portal players so it's on him so quit acting like Bob Knight and coach.
Knight threw a chair across the court and choked a kid among many other things...to think he's acting like Bobby Knight is ridiculous and ignorant.
 
#393      
If your general evaluation of whether BU is a good coach fluctuates based on whether our most recent game was a win or a loss, then you probably don't know how to evaluate coaching.
I don’t know if this is a response to me saying he looks like a fool, but if so you’re misreading my comment. I said nothing about whether he was a good coach. I only said that there are lots of ways to motivate and him stomping and screaming on the sideline like he’s a breath away from a heart attack is terrible for the program’s optics. Hence, we have seen a lot of social media commentary on his antics rather than his ability as a coach. It’s distracting at best and it’s also NOT WORKING.
 
#394      
I agree it is not working. He can tell players to do things a thousand times and they still do it. I don’t think he can do anything to make these players understand what he is saying unless they want to.

Contrast that to TF Ayo Kofi DMFW they responded to the intensity and it motivated them

If the team needs to do trust falls to solve their issues I am sure BU is open. It might be time to bring in a sport physiologist to figure it out
 
#395      
A lot of comments about poor three point shooting making the offense look bad, which I wholeheartedly agree with. You know what a good solution to poor three point shooting that is hurting a team offensively usually is? Stop shooting 30 of them a game! When Houston cleaned our clock in the tournament last year, the staff rightly pointed out their length that made it tough to guard them and they slashed their way to the basket time and again, and it made them tough defenders who bothered our ability to run our offense. So, again, rightfully the staff went out and got some long, slasher type athletes to build a re-worked roster with. Now, we go into games and stand around at the three point line, have our 6'10" forward at the point on offense and brick three after three. No slashing to the basket, not smothering D since Texas. What am I missing? We heard how Mayer and TJ and Skyy and Epps and RJ and whoever else could bring the ball up and initiate offense. Haven't seen that at all, no pushing the ball in transition, and the half court offense? Yikes. 5 out has turned into 5 standing around the arc. No cutting, no backdoors, no switching things up and feeding the post for an inside out look. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the myriad problems - that existed in all three of the UCLA, Virginia, and Texas games to varying degrees - getting resolved during the B10 season. Too late for that now. At least in those mentioned games the team hustled. Haven't even seen that since Texas. Piper had to be right in hist
Thanks for this post A one point last night we were 3 for 15 from 3 and 9 for 12 in the paint. Northwestern did a lot of screen the screener action last night using Audige to be the shooter as well as a decoy. They executed real well. If they had not missed like 10 or 12 lay ups in the paint things might have been a lot worse.

Our offense is terrible right now. In the first half, Mayer took an ill advised 3 as did Shannon as did Hawkins on 3 straight possessions. Mayer and Shannon are not working together and look to have issues with each other.

I thought we had it figured out after half time with the penetration and kick outs and people moving. Then Harris gets a T on the way to the bench and the same ole offense shows up. There is a ton of dribbling and going nowhere. Side to side vs 'downhill', ISO for everyone. How about seeing a play with some screen the screener action for a shot, ball fake and drive or something with action off the ball!
 
#396      
Lol. Underwood is the best coach we've had in 15 years and one of the best coaches in the country. Yes, he recruited these players, but you left out that they chose to play for him fully knowing how he coaches.
I would be ok if it translated into positive team action and wins.

screaming apparently doesn't motivate all players.

This year I haven't seen fire breathing, screaming BU's time outs turnaround team to a win.....maybe it will work eventually???
 
#397      
If the coach is accountable for results, that cuts both ways. He's won back*-to-back B1G titles and that wasn't by accident.

I don't get why people think that what we're seeing on the court is what he's drawn up. The team is just flatly refusing to run the offense for most of the game, no matter what he calls. He went back to the spread and switched up the defensive scheme, which I assume is at least in part an attempt to re-engage the team and get them to just run something, anything. But they're still not doing it. Last night there was a possession where Hawkins had the ball at the top of the key and was supposed to trigger the first motion on the spread, but the two guys on the wing just stared at him and didn't do anything until he yelled at them, at which point one guy jogged to the wrong spot and the second cutter arrived before the first. This is the same offense we've seen off and on since Underwood has gotten here, and while I don't know much about it I know it shouldn't look like that because I've seen us execute it before.

We looked decent in stretches last night because we were engaged. We've looked dominant on defense at time this year against some very good teams because we were engaged. The buck stops with Underwood on all of it, but what we're seeing is not what he's asking his team to do.

The only thing that brings me confidence about this team is that this is a fixable problem. Last year's team had a bunch of stuff that couldn't be fixed -- we had one guy who absolutely couldn't play offense, one guy who absolutely couldn't play defense, one guy who couldn't tell you how many fingers you were holding up, one guy who was held together by athletic tape, and a few underclassmen who hadn't figured anything out yet. We won a title because of Kofi, and some luck, and a lot of hard work. This year's team does have talent, because we've seen it. We've knocked off two top-ten teams! That's not a mistake, it's what happens when a talented team buys in. Hell, last night was an awful defensive performance against an awful offensive team, but you still saw them be able to get stops based on their athleticism and length alone. I hate a lot of the blocks they get because they come off of defensive breakdowns, but at least we're getting them. You can't coach size or athletic ability, or even talent to some extent, and we've got all that.

Maybe Underwood will find the right thing to say, and maybe these guys will just get tired of losing. Either way, there's no fix to this team that doesn't involve a complete change in how the players are approaching the game.
I think this is a really good post. I agree with over 95 % of it. I only have couple of caveats.

I.) It certainly does cut both ways…and I also, don’t know why so many fans assume that what players are doing in real time is exactly what the coach is instructing. Clue phone 📞…players don’t do what the coach intended for a number of reasons…(teenagers, and twenty-something’s tend to be kinda flaky sometimes…I know I could be.)
I don’t wanna sound like a jerk…but
Anybody who thinks that is the way it is has never been a coach or a teacher.

Obviously, BU has a solid resume. His list of achievements speaks for itself. He’s a knowledgeable X’s O’s guy and he didn’t lose that ability over night. He has a solid track record of developing players, despite what some on here say. He generally handles the media well, he appears quite good at: hiring, recruiting, delegating and building a winning culture. But there has invariably been some missteps, bad luck
and failed experiments. But that is part of the job and is to be expected. The whole
thing is a crap-shoot to a certain point.

However, if there is a violent storm in the midst of a mutiny on this ship it falls to the captain to right it…I’m not saying anything controversial there at all. It’s just the way it is.

ex. the staff AND some of us thought…Skyy Clark was gonna be Damon Stoudamire reincarnated. That hasn’t panned out just yet. In Sky’s defense, do we remember Ayo’s freshman campaign? I seem to remember him being weak at finishing around the rim/getting the ball lodged under the backboard quite frequently with no where to go…I don’t
recall him being a perfect defender early on either. Ayo had more time to develop clearly. Skyy is asked to perform like a seasoned veteran from day one.

2.) We have more fixable problems than last year..I would like to believe that these problems are more fixable than last year’s more logistical based problems. I would argue these types of emotional/bad blood/personality-clash/unchecked ego type problems might be even harder to solve or get a handle on. They’re sometimes really bad. I know how gloomy all this this sounds but I think it’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
 
Last edited:
#399      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Where were all of these complaints about Underwood's demeanor when we were winning big ten titles? He may not have had as much to yell about but he definitely acted the same way.
Underwood very noticeably chilled out starting after the Covid lockdown.

And I might be over-reading this, but I always kinda felt in the years before that there was a calculated element of performance in BU's blow-ups, that he was doing it as a show for the players to provoke a certain reaction. There's an element of genuine exasperation in it all now, never more so than last night.

I don't like it, I wouldn't play for a coach like that, but his ability to bring great performances out of players and teams speaks for itself, we're very lucky to have him and so long as we can keep him I have every confidence that he can learn from what's happened this year and build a new winning group going forward.
 
#400      

illini80

Forgottonia
I think this is a really good post. I agree with over 95 % of it. I only have couple of caveats.

I.) It certainly does cut both ways…and I also, don’t know why so many fans assume
what that player are doing in real time is exactly what the coach instructing. Clue phone 📞…players don’t do what the coach intended for a number of reasons…
I don’t wanna sound like a jerk…but
Anybody who thinks that has never been a coach or a teacher.

Obviously, he has a solid resume. His list of achievements speaks for itself. He’s a knowledgeable X’s O’s guy and he didn’t lose that ability over night. He has a solid track record of developing players, despite what some on here say. He generally handles the media well, he appears quite good at: hiring, recruiting, delegating and building a winning culture. But there has invariably been some missteps, bad luck
and failed experiments. But that is part of the job and is to be expected. The whole
thing is crap-shoot to a certain point.

However, if there is a violent storm in the midst of a mutiny on this ship it falls to the captain to right it…I’m not saying anything controversial there at all. It’s just the way it is.

ex. the staff AND some of us thought…Skyy Clark was gonna be Damon Stoudamire reincarnated. That hasn’t panned out just yet. In Sky’s defense, do we remember Ayo’s freshman campaign? I
seem to remember him being weak at finishing around the rim/getting the ball lodged under the backboard quite frequently with no where to go…I don’t
recall him being a perfect defender early on either…Obviously, Ayo had more time to develop clearly. Skyy is asked to perform like a seasoned veteran from day one.

2.) We have more fixable problems than last year..I would like to believe that these problems are more fixable than last years more logistical based problems. I would argue these types of problems might be even harder to solve/get a handle on.
I know how gloomy this sounds but I think it’s gonna get worse before it gets better.
Can it really get much worse than it’s been the last 3 weeks?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.