Ohio State 87, Illinois 81 Postgame

#251      
Wow...the rationale for some of these hot takes is nuclear!

Several posters including me tried to pump the brakes on these pre season accolades. The same terrible rationale was being used to compare this years team to the '05 team.
Right. Now we should fire Brad Underwood if this team underachieves in what is....without any reasonable debate....the most awkward year in the history of college sports? No regular practices in the summer. No scrimmages. No tune up tourneys. No family contact. No holidays. No outside trips to blow off steam and adjust emotions. Just quarantine and play. Just the minimum preparation and go.

The hair trigger reactions are so unreasonable. Bench Trent. Bench DMFW. Start Curbelo. Start CoHawk. Fire BU...and on and on and on ad naseum.

Pump the brakes on these... just like we needed to pump the brakes before the season on comparing this team to '05.

Give them all a little leeway. Let them figure it out. I get frustration as a fan too, but I trust the coaches and the players to play through all of this and give it their best.
As for last year vs. this year...Feliz is so missed no doubt...but the big change in our season happened when Trent started running the offense and Ayo went to 2.
Look what happened! They ended up playing their best basketball in Feb. and March!

If the players can figure it out for a half like the NW game....they can figure this out. BU isn't going to give them as long a leash now. He said pre season, this is Ayo's team, he wants to prove he can lead a team...well, it looks like he needs some help getting them ready for games.

If it's fire BU talk now...after really only one bad loss and some questionable effort in a couple of W's...then when we play like a Final Four contender...why isn't the talk retain BU forever?

It says right on the front of our favorite jerseys......FIGHTING ILLINI.

Let em' fight.
If pumping the brakes means we aren't 2005 caliber then fine.

But the idea that we shouldn't be thinking top 10 and FF contender is absurd. Writers and coaches all believed it for good reason.

The question on BU was whether he could get the talent. Once the talent is here he's supposed to be a superior coach that delivers more than he has to date.
 
#252      
This just doesn't look like a well coached team, plain and simple. When the talent is there but the results are not, you've got look at the coach.
 
#253      
The issue is clear: lack of consistency, focus, and energy. The solution is less clear. Could be leadership from upperclassmen. Could be more coaching.
I obviously think there are other tweaks needed -- both mental and game planning -- but to me, the solution is Ayo. This is his team. He needs to get back to playing like the Player of the Year. Not every now and then, but the whole game.

When you have the clear-cut best player on your side, everything else more easily falls into place. When your best player is operating in 'snap necks' mode 24/7, that attitude is contagious. Ayo is such an incredible player, but he doesn't have that sneering, "you don't stand a chance" demeanor that is sometimes needed (for some teams more than others, and it appears we're one of those). He is the guy on this team that is heading pro after this year. It's time for him to go out and grab ahold of every game immediately, set the tone for everybody else, and show the NBA why he's worth a lotto pick. Now or never.
 
#254      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
This just doesn't look like a well coached team, plain and simple. When the talent is there but the results are not, you've got look at the coach.

So when we played even up for all but 8-10 minutes with arguably the #1 team in the country, beat Duke in Cameron, smoked what looks to be like a pretty good Minnesota, and absolutely s#$t whipped NU for 20 minutes....what do they look like to you then??
 
#255      

Dbell1981

Decatur, IL
This just doesn't look like a well coached team, plain and simple. When the talent is there but the results are not, you've got look at the coach.
So on one hand we are missing on all these recruiting targets, then on the other hand people say "with all this talent" as if we are loaded with 4 and 5 star players at every position. You complainers can't have it both ways. In the recruiting forum we suck but in this forum we are a loaded team. Ayo, Kofi, Miller, and Curbelo are our 4 best recruits and 2 are freshmen. I agree that we were overhyped after we blew out Duke. We are also being humbled by a seriously tough conference schedule. Train is not off the rails guys, we are just going through a skid. Plenty of games to straighten things up.
 
#256      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
If pumping the brakes means we aren't 2005 caliber then fine.

But the idea that we shouldn't be thinking top 10 and FF contender is absurd. Writers and coaches all believed it for good reason.

The question on BU was whether he could get the talent. Once the talent is here he's supposed to be a superior coach that delivers more than he has to date.

This is all fine, and I certainly wasn't insinuating that we weren't thinking this was a championship caliber team, just simply pointing out the overreactions both positive and now negative. The reality usually lies somewhere in the middle. I'm saying we should be willing to give these guys the middle ground and let them become whatever they are going to become. It may be a let down....history is littered with great teams that didn't live up to expectations...even reasonable ones.

Some of these reactions are just silly. There are so many mitigating factors this year that everyone just blows past, straight to these overreactions.
BU was delivering last year. We are 14 games into an absurdly unconventional season. I think BU and his staff are more than competent and I hope they can fix the issues soon.
 
#257      

DICKnaggie

Champaign
This just doesn't look like a well coached team, plain and simple. When the talent is there but the results are not, you've got look at the coach.
I can't agree with all of BU's coaching decisions. That said, we have some glaring holes. The 4 is obvious, though DM has played amazingly most of the year. He is undersized. We still lack consistent shooting, and GB and AC are liabilities from range outside of the lane which is very problematic. Turnovers are killing us and outside of Ayo, we don't have anyone that can create their own shot consistently. Outside of Kofi and Ayo, we are easy to defend bc we are predictable and an easy scout.
 
#258      
This is all fine, and I certainly wasn't insinuating that we weren't thinking this was a championship caliber team, just simply pointing out the overreactions both positive and now negative. The reality usually lies somewhere in the middle. I'm saying we should be willing to give these guys the middle ground and let them become whatever they are going to become. It may be a let down....history is littered with great teams that didn't live up to expectations...even reasonable ones.

Some of these reactions are just silly. There are so many mitigating factors this year that everyone just blows past, straight to these overreactions.
BU was delivering last year. We are 14 games into an absurdly unconventional season. I think BU and his staff are more than competent and I hope they can fix the issues soon.
I think what you are saying is: "Fan" is short for "fanatic". There are bound to be overreactions.

Let's just wait and see how this all works out.
 
#259      
So when we played even up for all but 8-10 minutes with arguably the #1 team in the country, beat Duke in Cameron, smoked what looks to be like a pretty good Minnesota, and absolutely s#$t whipped NU for 20 minutes....what do they look like to you then??
We look like a team that just played sloppy a** basketball for long stretches of the majority of the games we've played this year, and lost 4 games to inferior talent, 2 of them at home. We played poorly in all four of those games btw. None of those losses was a fluke. In isolation none of those losses would be concerning, but there is a definite pattern at this point, and honestly the frequency of these sloppy, disoriented stretches is increasing, even in the games we're winning. Either other teams have figured us out, or we are actively playing worse. Neither possibility is encouraging.

Nobody is saying the talent isn't there. But what's the point of the talent if it doesn't win you games?
 
#260      

skyIdub

Winged Warrior
I think what you are saying is: "Fan" is short for "fanatic". There are bound to be overreactions.

Let's just wait and see how this all works out.

Absolutely! Just playing level headed devil's advocate! Showing some love and support in an obnoxious season!

:hailtotheorange: :chief:
 
#261      
So when we played even up for all but 8-10 minutes with arguably the #1 team in the country, beat Duke in Cameron, smoked what looks to be like a pretty good Minnesota, and absolutely s#$t whipped NU for 20 minutes....what do they look like to you then??
What constitutes good coaching is a question that everyone answers a bit differently I suppose. But consistency is a big one for many of us.
 
#262      
What constitutes good coaching is a question that everyone answers a bit differently I suppose. But consistency is a big one for many of us.
Exactly...this team plays without energy too often and doesn't seem to do the little things well on a consistent basis. The talent is there for a long run in the tourney, but not sure we will get there.
 
#263      
Can anybody explain to me why we don't run more P&R? We have a dominant big man and several good to great guards. Why do we rely almost solely on post ups for Kofi and never get him running downhill towards the basket?
 
#264      
This is all fine, and I certainly wasn't insinuating that we weren't thinking this was a championship caliber team, just simply pointing out the overreactions both positive and now negative. The reality usually lies somewhere in the middle. I'm saying we should be willing to give these guys the middle ground and let them become whatever they are going to become. It may be a let down....history is littered with great teams that didn't live up to expectations...even reasonable ones.

Some of these reactions are just silly. There are so many mitigating factors this year that everyone just blows past, straight to these overreactions.
BU was delivering last year. We are 14 games into an absurdly unconventional season. I think BU and his staff are more than competent and I hope they can fix the issues soon.
THIS!!
 
#265      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Can anybody explain to me why we don't run more P&R? We have a dominant big man and several good to great guards. Why do we rely almost solely on post ups for Kofi and never get him running downhill towards the basket?
Kofi's handwork still needs improvement. He turns the ball over a lot when he catches on the move. It's a lose/lose scenario, because P&R could foil some of the double-teaming that he gets playing purely in the post.
 
#266      
Wow...the rationale for some of these hot takes is nuclear!

Several posters including me tried to pump the brakes on these pre season accolades. The same terrible rationale was being used to compare this years team to the '05 team.
Right. Now we should fire Brad Underwood if this team underachieves in what is....without any reasonable debate....the most awkward year in the history of college sports? No regular practices in the summer. No scrimmages. No tune up tourneys. No family contact. No holidays. No outside trips to blow off steam and adjust emotions. Just quarantine and play. Just the minimum preparation and go.

The hair trigger reactions are so unreasonable. Bench Trent. Bench DMFW. Start Curbelo. Start CoHawk. Fire BU...and on and on and on ad naseum.

Pump the brakes on these... just like we needed to pump the brakes before the season on comparing this team to '05.

Give them all a little leeway. Let them figure it out. I get frustration as a fan too, but I trust the coaches and the players to play through all of this and give it their best.
As for last year vs. this year...Feliz is so missed no doubt...but the big change in our season happened when Trent started running the offense and Ayo went to 2.
Look what happened! They ended up playing their best basketball in Feb. and March!

If the players can figure it out for a half like the NW game....they can figure this out. BU isn't going to give them as long a leash now. He said pre season, this is Ayo's team, he wants to prove he can lead a team...well, it looks like he needs some help getting them ready for games.

If it's fire BU talk now...after really only one bad loss and some questionable effort in a couple of W's...then when we play like a Final Four contender...why isn't the talk retain BU forever?

It says right on the front of our favorite jerseys......FIGHTING ILLINI.

Let em' fight.
Every single excuse you came up with (no regular practices, no scrimmages, no tune up tourneys, no family contact, etc.) applies to every other team as well. So your excuses for the Illini's poor play (against less-talented teams, btw) are just that. Excuses. When Ayo and Kofi are gone and the Illini can't reach .500, the fire BU talk will be a lot louder. He can't coach in-game and it's glaringly obvious. It will be John Groce making excuses all over again.
 
#267      
Kofi's handwork still needs improvement. He turns the ball over a lot when he catches on the move. It's a lose/lose scenario, because P&R could foil some of the double-teaming that he gets playing purely in the post.
Makes sense. I guess I've just seen plenty of times where his hands still lose him the ball when its tossed in to him (and contested) or when he makes his move, particularly if it involves a dribble.

Seems like he needs to get to the point where he can run a P&R -- solely for career purposes -- as soon as humanly possible. He isn't turning NBA heads with post moves.
 
#268      
I believe Ayo and Kofi each had 4 pts in the 1st half in this game. Seem to remember seeing that, not positive. Ayo seems to be very 2nd half minded. Did see that Ayo only had one FG in the first half vs tosu. Two in the 1st half against the twerps. Need Ayo to come out raging. Agree with the defensive strategy post. Need some simple shot creation outside of Ayo. Too much sitting on open 3s and if not there pass. Someone else needs to effectively get to the basket. Teams are daring Belo to shoot, and covering everyone else. Go ILLINI!
 
#269      
I believe Ayo and Kofi each had 4 pts in the 1st half in this game. Seem to remember seeing that, not positive. Ayo seems to be very 2nd half minded. Did see that Ayo only had one FG in the first half vs tosu. Two in the 1st half against the twerps. Need Ayo to come out raging. Agree with the defensive strategy post. Need some simple shot creation outside of Ayo. Too much sitting on open 3s and if not there pass. Someone else needs to effectively get to the basket. Teams are daring Belo to shoot, and covering everyone else. Go ILLINI!

Curbelo is 3-17 from 3 pt on the season. Opponents know that.
 
#270      
What constitutes good coaching is a question that everyone answers a bit differently I suppose. But consistency is a big one for many of us.

One measure I use on good coaching is win/lose record in one possession games at the end of games. Underwood is 1-3 this year.
 
#271      
Guess we'll find out over the next few games whether Underwood can turn this team around or not. Lackadaisical play and scoring droughts are usually the fault of a coaching staff. Too much talent on this team to be witnessing what we are seeing on the court right now.
 
#272      

Deleted member 747903

D
Guest
One measure I use on good coaching is win/lose record in one possession games at the end of games. Underwood is 1-3 this year.
Regression to the mean. What was the same record last year? Ayo bailed us out every time last year
 
#273      
Kofi's handwork still needs improvement. He turns the ball over a lot when he catches on the move. It's a lose/lose scenario, because P&R could foil some of the double-teaming that he gets playing purely in the post.
I actually think he does better on the move — when the passes are up. He also does pretty well with direct, straight on passes to post. Problems seem to come with lower passes (waist and below) when there are some “angles” involved. Seems like he doesn’t look the ball into his hands in those situations and fumbles the ball.
 
#274      
Regression to the mean. What was the same record last year? Ayo bailed us out every time last year

Last year in the Ayo miracle year we were 4-3, overall Underwood's record at UI in one possession games is 7-11. BTW, I did not factor OT games in unless they ended in one possession or less.