Penn State 79, Illinois 76 Postgame

IllinoisFan733 said:

Shannon plays hard on offense and defense. He cares…. I would love for him to come back for his last year. Imagine a 5th year like Pickett?

Won’t be sad to see Mayer gone next year…. His defense is subpar (trailing d and wide open looks for Funk yesterday) and he doesn’t want to run the offense. Still cheering for him and the team to do well next week.

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They all care. Mayer was our leading rebounder due to his effort on the glass. They both have too many mental errors on both ends with lazy passes and poor shot selection. We switched often and TSJ and others were caught watching the ball and Funk burned each of them. RJ was chasing Funk a lot last night and Meyer was on 11 a lot which was odd. We had a few chances to extend the lead and Goode missed a couple good looks and TSJ took an air ball three. The do all care just make to many mental errors, missed FT and poor shot selection too often at key moments and PSU didn’t.

HailtotheChief said:

That doesn’t mean he couldn’t play more under control or rely a little more on his teammates. Send like every game he takes 2 or 3 awful shots from three or turns it over with a careless pass or two. He had a couple Ill advised threes and a careless cross court pass last night. Physical mistakes are easier to deal with than mental ones.

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We are at our best when Shannon is aggressive. If that comes with an occasional turnover or missed shot then so be it.

AyoDos11 said:

We are at our best when Shannon is aggressive. If that comes with an occasional turnover or missed shot then so be it.

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Disagree, an unwise airball shot from 28 feet early in the shot clock is never ok nor is a flat footed cross court pass that leads to a breakout for PSU. That’s not being aggressive it’s being careless. If he is driving the ball and looking for others ok and makes a physical mistake ok but dumb plays from someone like him is never ok. In close games it will get you beat. I didn’t see any shots or lazy passes like that from Pickett. Even with the most talent in close games that’s how you lose along with missing key FTs

HailtotheChief said:

Disagree, an unwise airball shot from 28 feet early in the shot clock is never ok nor is a flat footed cross court pass that leads to a breakout for PSU. That’s not being aggressive it’s being careless. If he is driving the ball and looking for others ok and makes a physical mistake ok but dumb plays from someone like him is never ok. In close games it will get you beat. I didn’t see any shots or lazy passes like that from Pickett. Even with the most talent in close games that’s how you lose along with missing key FTs

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Ok but with the way our offense is performing, a Shannon transition three is better than dribbling around the perimeter for 20 seconds and putting up a contested look.

AyoDos11 said:

Ok but with the way our offense is performing, a Shannon transition three is better than dribbling around the perimeter for 20 seconds and putting up a contested look.

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When he took that shot and made the cross court pass we were rollin. We didn’t take many threes in the second half and shot it very well. He is fine taking threes when he gets set and from a little closer. Attacking the hoop is what he excels at and we were killing PSU doing. I certainly want him aggressive too while being wise. He and Meyer need to play smart and aggressive while trusting their teammates. TSJ played well over all yesterday but that pass was cross court to Hawkins and gave PSU an easy lay up. He knows better. Hawkins had a couple too that we were fortunate got tipped away and he and Dain fought to get back for at key moments. It’s March and we made plays like that and PSU didn’t

IlliniGrad93 said:

They couldn’t stop Coleman down low and Pickett was on him and could have gotten him in foul trouble yet we didn’t take advantage. We should have run that play getting Coleman down low nonstop until they proved they could stop it. I just don’t get it.

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Don’t understand the decision not to feed Hawkins in the post - until it was stopped or doubled.

Stupid / avoidable dain T reversed momentum
Free throws 2 straight missed front ends.
Coaches don’t play the game but they have a big impact on the outcome.

Jimbo said:

I’d rather have Goode back than Shannon,

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Goode intrigues me at the 4 if Hawkins leaves. Let’s say Hawkins/Shannon leave but everyone else comes back. I’d start:

Epps
Rodgers
Melendez
Goode
Dainja

Offensively, I think swapping Hawkins for Goode at the stretch 4 makes us better. A true floor spacer that I can assume shoot far better than Hawkins. Dainja at the 5 is a reliable post threat. Melendez has the tools (he can slash, monster dunks, good shooting form but just needs to put it all together). So I’d feel fine at the 3-4-5. It’s the Epps/Rodgers backcourt that could be the issue. It’s hard to be a good team if your guards can’t shoot the 3. If Epps becomes Frank Mason/Carsen Edwards type lead scoring guard then this works. If Epps/Rodgers are about the same next year it won’t.

Defensively this group could get eaten alive tho. I’m confident in Rodgers/RJ being solid defensively, but Epps/Goode/Dainja could be exposed. You can mask it with a zone but doubt Underwood ever considers it.

Rudd21 said:

Goode intrigues me at the 4 if Hawkins leaves. Let’s say Hawkins/Shannon leave but everyone else comes back. I’d start:

Epps
Rodgers
Melendez
Goode
Dainja

Offensively, I think swapping Hawkins for Goode at the stretch 4 makes us better. A true floor spacer that I can assume shoot far better than Hawkins. Dainja at the 5 is a reliable post threat. Melendez has the tools (he can slash, monster dunks, good shooting form but just needs to put it all together). So I’d feel fine at the 3-4-5. It’s the Epps/Rodgers backcourt that could be the issue. It’s hard to be a good team if your guards can’t shoot the 3. If Epps becomes Frank Mason/Carsen Edwards type lead scoring guard then this works. If Epps/Rodgers are about the same next year it won’t.

Defensively this group could get eaten alive tho. I’m confident in Rodgers/RJ being solid defensively, but Epps/Goode/Dainja could be exposed. You can mask it with a zone but doubt Underwood ever considers it.

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As far as starters go, there's a lot that will unfold after we get the offseason, but I can be confident that there is no way Goode plays the 4, nor would he be a better 1 for 1 replacement at the 4 than CoHawk. Even in the extreme case that we don't get any bigs portal in and CoHawk leaves, which I doubt, I think in that case it'll be Ty Rodgers or Amani Hansberry as starting 4 if he's ready to go day 1 with Ty going to the 3. Starters in this case would be:

1. PG: TBD/Moretti
2. SG: Goode/Epps/RJ/DGL/TBD
3. CG: Epps/RJ/Rodgers (If Epps and/or RJ stay)
4. SF: Rodgers/Hansberry
5. PF: Dain/Hansberry

Gut feel though is that we'll pick up a PG and an SG while portaling, that CoHawk will come back making a 4 man big rotation of Dain, CoHawk, Rodgers, and Hansberry, that TSJ will declare, and that RJ and unfortunately Epps will transfer.

With regards to defense though, I think there's a strong chance we're better defensively next year than we are this year. First it's easy to underestimate what a difference a year makes for freshmen defenders. I would rate Rodgers as a plus defender who struggled with his perimeter D this year, and Harris as a plus defender who struggled with size and awareness on screens this year. Having another year in the weight room and another year getting used to Brad's defensive system should clean a lot of these issues up and I expect them to make very big leaps next year especially considering how advanced they came in defensively as freshmen. Another year of Dain learning defensive positioning and movement and using his plus agility and footwork on that side of the ball should allow him to make large strides as well. Goode and RJ will both be more than serviceable defenders as well, and I'm guessing whatever veteran PG we bring in will be stout defensively. As it stands, the only starting player on the roster I think may really struggle defensively next year is Epps (and DGL) and I think overall we'll have a much stronger defensive team. I really think both Rodgers and Harris can end their careers here as 1st team All-Defensive B10. I'm that high on them.

I was really disappointed in our coaching during this game. I like that Underwood brings the fire, however, that doesn’t overcome poor execution. It was inexcusable that we didn’t pound the ball inside to Hawkins, Mayer, and Dain. When you have 4-6 inches on a defender and don’t take advantage that is poor execution. Not only that our best defense against the good PSU offense would be to get them in foul trouble. Not the best solution but we seemed clearly overmatched defensively. I also question why Underwood didn’t bring in Rogers and Harris sooner late in the game. They have a defensive intensity that is unmatched. On a final note it seems to me that teams that are lifted up through the portal are finding their greatest success with small to mid major program transfers with player eager to prove their abilities on a bigger stage. Funk and Pickett are good recent example. Big school portal moves seems to be driven by a desire to improve NBA stock and don’t always seem to align with team interests. My favorite Illini transfers over the years have been Granderson and Feliz. I’d like to see BU start to look at this pipeline more rather than the big gets.

IllinoisFan733 said:

Shannon plays hard on offense and defense. He cares….

Won’t be sad to see Mayer gone next year….

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I feel the same in this. MM may be a fun kid and an interesting character, but he came here to lock himself up as a better NBA prospect, I just don’t think he takes himself seriously enough to have done this.

Everyone can debate the coaching staff’s X’s and O’s and recruiting ability but the one common thing most seem to agree on is Fletch is a positive for the program (except for the basketball players shouldn’t lift crowd). But when MM first openly discussed he had a good game because he choose not to eat, and then this whole debacle surrounding the Monster drinks I’m sure Fletch was just shaking his head. He emphasizes the nutrition let of the equation and I’m pretty sure Monsters aren’t available in the refueling stations at Ubben, so to be like “I care so little about what I’m putting into my body I’m gonna drink 5 of these”…just seems crazy to me.

I’ll hope he goes in a heater for whatever games he has left in O & B. Maybe that will be enough to catch the eye of some scouts.

RickBB said:

I feel the same in this. MM may be a fun kid and an interesting character, but he came here to lock himself up as a better NBA prospect, I just don’t think he takes himself seriously enough to have done this.

Everyone can debate the coaching staff’s X’s and O’s and recruiting ability but the one common thing most seem to agree on is Fletch is a positive for the program (except for the basketball players shouldn’t lift crowd). But when MM first openly discussed he had a good game because he choose not to eat, and then this whole debacle surrounding the Monster drinks. I’m pretty sure Monsters aren’t available in the refueling stations at Ubben, so to be like “I care so little about what I’m putting into my body I’m gonna drink 5 of these”…just seems crazy to me.

I’ll hope he goes in a heater for whatever games he has left in O & B. Maybe that will be enough to catch the eye of some scouts.

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I felt for MM, it is all about him. Looks that way on the court at times and evident in your insightful second paragraph. He was sensitive to BU's style, so BU, I believe, changed and sort of lost this team, IMO.

aaeismacgychel said:

As it stands, the only starting player on the roster I think may really struggle defensively next year is Epps (and DGL) and I think overall we'll have a much stronger defensive team.

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I think Harris is an elite on ball defender. I have no doubts about him.

But all the other guys have significant flaws.

Dainja- athletically he is what he is. It’s his 3rd year of college this year. I don’t think he’s going to progress much either way next year. He’s just too limited athletically.

Epps- he’s not very quick. Little small. Maybe he can be an average defender. But I don’t think he will ever be good at defense. Maybe passable.

Rodgers- I think he can be good if he’s checking guards. Which is why I have him listed on the backcourt. Don’t like him matching up with guys over 6’7 which is why no way I’d have him at the 3/4/5.

Goode- foot speed on defense will always be an issue. He’s bulky tho. Don’t see him being able to check guys off the dribble.

Melendez- I think he has it all to be a good defensive player.

But I think you are vastly underestimating how bad the defense would be if you take Hawkins/Shannon off the team, and have a PG like Moretti playing. Even Mayer has gotten quite a few blocks this year. Mayer/Shannon/Hawkins did have some defensive values. Rodgers could certainly step in for 1 of them. But replacing the other 2 with unknowns I think will be a problem.

For us to make the tourney next year, I think Epps will have to develop into our go to guy on offense. Someone who can get 16-20 a game no problem on good efficiency. That has to be the expectation for him.

His defense will always be an issue, but I do think he has the offensive potential to be that type of guy. He pretty much needs to be if we’re going to keep our winning seasons going, unless we get some transfer stars again.

jjv0004 said:

I am struggling to see how next years team will be better than this years team. Which is a crappy statement to make after this season. Can we have Ayo, Trent, Alfonso and Kofi back?

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Hansberry, a big with skills on both offense and defense, can make next year's team better.

chudaman said:

Hansberry, a big with skills on both offense and defense, can make next year's team better.

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Do he and Dain play on the floor at the same time?

racinghoss said:

I can't see this. Was UCLA, TX, a comeback vs NW, scUM, or Purdue not fun?? Heck, I was full-throated cheering during this game at times. This team has been disappointing, but also entertaining and even endearing.

I'm a life long Bears fan. That organization has been hard to root for, for years and years. This Illini team is different. They are safely in the dance. They have big moments. They could certainly be better. They are kids. Not professionals.

Lots of you need to reconsider things. You don't pull your entire self-assessment from Illini results. If you do...get a life. If you expect Nattys every year, you're wrong. Go root for Kansas if that is your thing. The bandwagon awaits. I root for my school, and the brothers and sisters that wear the cloth of my people, orange and navy blue.

Negative naysayers...bah! The Illini aren't perfect. They may not be a 2nd weekend team. But they are worthy of our support. What have you done to represent the O&B today?

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No, it wasn't fun for me either.

BoiseBaller said:

Lot of handwringing over lack of shooters. I mean, it's not 100% untrue, but I think it lacks context. The real problem is this team runs no actual offense. Been saying it all year and it was true again tonight. Look at the quality of shots PSU had vs what we did. Ours were abysmal.

What I see 90% of the time is four guys watching one the guy with the ball dribble the logo off the leather and then take a difficult contested shot. We say we have no shooters, but the truth is our shot degree of difficulty is very high.

Aside from half-hearted poorly set ball screens for the guy dribbling, the offense does nothing. No movement without the ball. No back screens, no cutting. And this isn't new, it's a staple under Brad. This year we just didn't have an all-American to defer to that could make those tough shots.

Brad's number one off-season goal should be to find an assistant that can install a competent offense. "Play harder" isn't a tactical adjustment that works in a tough, well coached league like the B1G.

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You're wrong. ShotQuality loves Illinois. We were a top 25 SQ team this year. We just don't make shots.

One Man Fast Break said:

Not to be overly pedantic, but Frederick transferred "up" so to speak.

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Then so did Grandison.

Rudd21 said:

I think Harris is an elite on ball defender. I have no doubts about him.

But all the other guys have significant flaws.

Dainja- athletically he is what he is. It’s his 3rd year of college this year. I don’t think he’s going to progress much either way next year. He’s just too limited athletically.

Epps- he’s not very quick. Little small. Maybe he can be an average defender. But I don’t think he will ever be good at defense. Maybe passable.

Rodgers- I think he can be good if he’s checking guards. Which is why I have him listed on the backcourt. Don’t like him matching up with guys over 6’7 which is why no way I’d have him at the 3/4/5.

Goode- foot speed on defense will always be an issue. He’s bulky tho. Don’t see him being able to check guys off the dribble.

Melendez- I think he has it all to be a good defensive player.

But I think you are vastly underestimating how bad the defense would be if you take Hawkins/Shannon off the team, and have a PG like Moretti playing. Even Mayer has gotten quite a few blocks this year. Mayer/Shannon/Hawkins did have some defensive values. Rodgers could certainly step in for 1 of them. But replacing the other 2 with unknowns I think will be a problem.

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Love for Rodgers to hit a big and occasional hree-pointer to force the defender to move up and defend. Gives Rodgers opportunity to make his move for a two or foul.

HailtotheChief said:

They all care. Mayer was our leading rebounder due to his effort on the glass. They both have too many mental errors on both ends with lazy passes and poor shot selection. We switched often and TSJ and others were caught watching the ball and Funk burned each of them. RJ was chasing Funk a lot last night and Meyer was on 11 a lot which was odd. We had a few chances to extend the lead and Goode missed a couple good looks and TSJ took an air ball three. The do all care just make to many mental errors, missed FT and poor shot selection too often at key moments and PSU didn’t.

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Agree. And it has been a pattern too often.

FreshlySqueezed said:

You're wrong. ShotQuality loves Illinois. We were a top 25 SQ team this year. We just don't make shots.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634140870487289863

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If this metric loves the shot quality of Illinois it’s just another indicator that metrics can’t measure everything. I’ve seen fewer step-back, fade away 3s in an And 1 mistake tour game than this years version of the Illini take.

Either that or I’m glad I don’t watch the other 300-odd teams as close as I watch UI. Those games would really drive me buggy.

RickBB said:

If this metric loves the shot quality of Illinois it’s just another indicator that metrics can’t measure everything. I’ve seen fewer step-back, fade away 3s in an And 1 mistake tour game than this years version of the Illini take.

Either that or I’m glad I don’t watch the other 300-odd teams as close as I watch UI. Those games would really drive me buggy.

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So if a metric doesn't support your eye test, it has to be incorrect.

FreshlySqueezed said:

You're wrong. ShotQuality loves Illinois. We were a top 25 SQ team this year. We just don't make shots.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634140870487289863

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wow , there truly is a stat for everything in a BB game........this is getting like baseball ......i grew up on ERA and batting ave , etc......now so many unknown stats to be .......I just enjoy the competition of playing the game and now in my golden years watching them............

Since switching to fubotv app, never have I watched so much college basketball coast to coast. While I'm disappointed at our squad quite often. There are about 5 teams we simply do not match up with. Alabama, Kansas, and many teams we can take out. Creighton, UCLA, Texas, and Houston scare me. Teams that play defense, run Great offensive sets, and don't go on 5 minute scoring droughts. Otherwise, if we keep are 3 pt shots to >20 hit 70% free throws, and a Huge And! Quit getting lost on defense. Switching and assignments.
In closing, still in shock that Penn St. beat us 3x this year, my goodness. Here's to being healthy and thoroughly embarrassed, I hope the men Bring it. Quit talking about being a championship team and go out and wood shed some teams Illini!

FreshlySqueezed said:

So if a metric doesn't support your eye test, it has to be incorrect.

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Can this metric also tell us what would happen if my aunt had balls?