BZuppke
- Plainfield
So you’re growing a beard to match Lovie?
Pregame: Illinois at Michigan State, Saturday, November 9th, 2:30pm CT, FS1
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I mostly agree with most of your points and to an extent, on some of this. However, if we used Hansen like Nick Kwik from the Bears the one game against Vikings, he would look dominant. I mean the dude is tearing it up in forced fumbles, sacks, being around the football. I actually think if we had someone like Shammond in place of Milo with more instincts and use in coverage with his speed would cover Hansens weaknesses. Hansen though has been a stud. What we really need is an eljte pass rusher or an additional one to Wole.
Hansen has been impactful but he’s not what I would call a “stud”. He’s the guy who steps up to the plate and whacks the big 3-run homer and then strikes out in his next three at bats. He misses out on too many plays. The Nebraska game was microcosm of who he is. Forces the huge fumble that gave us the ball deep in Husker territory to eventually give us 7 but also got turned around in space twice on two massive plays in the 3rd quarter that we desperately needed to make. Still an important player for this defense at this time though, no question.
Bobby and another safety and you’d have the start of something special. Desperately need a safety.
It is good to see Lovie smile
dumb question amnesty: how do you tell the difference between cover 4 and the corners playing soft on a cover 2? Doesn’t it all look like 4 guys deep at that point?
Are you talking pre-snap? Post snap it’s easy to tell as your safeties won’t play deep hash in a Cover 2, it’ll be combo coverage. Pre-snap, there are a couple of triggers but the easiest way to see it without having the power of hindsight and coaches tape is by catching the positioning of the CBs and the MIKE. That will give it away. If the MIKE is playing the hook and/or you’ve got a press man or bump off look outside, you’re playing quarters. This is what we’re predominantly showing now.
Not a dumb question either, very good question. The defense is designed to force the QB to make his read post snap which is never in his favor, especially at the college level where one read offense’s are the norm.
Twangers-
Long time lurker and even longer time Illini (wife 88 and myself 87).
I am very very intrigued by your last sentence ...."The defense is designed to force the QB to make his read post snap which is never in his favor, especially at the college level where one read offense’s are the norm."
Can you elaborate more on how that works without giving away something that future opponents don't already know? As a long-time Bears fan, I never did really understand the Cover 2 - even when it was clearly working well for them in the mid-2000's. Thanks much
Long time lurker and even longer time Illini (wife 88 and myself 87).
I am very very intrigued by your last sentence ...."The defense is designed to force the QB to make his read post snap which is never in his favor, especially at the college level where one read offense’s are the norm."
Can you elaborate more on how that works without giving away something that future opponents don't already know? As a long-time Bears fan, I never did really understand the Cover 2 - even when it was clearly working well for them in the mid-2000's. Thanks much
I was referring to the Cover 4 there, my apologies. Because it’s combination coverage, the QB has to see how the safety reacts to the outside WR, whether it be the “X” or the “Z” before he can either throw or remove himself from the read (Off topic but this is something Brandon Peters struggles with). There are tendencies you can pick up on tape but this also opens you up to trap coverage. Tony’s pick 6 against Purdue is a classic example. Plummer reads that as Cover 0 (My best guess) but it’s Cover 4 Trap. He can’t get that from a pre-snap look, that’s where it’s difficult for college QBs to attack. This defense can be beaten by top notch QBs. I’m a big personal Kirby Smart fan, I watch a lot of UGA ball. Jake Fromm could (Not would, could) beat this coverage, but the majority of QBs we’ll face won’t read it well.
The Cover 2, however, in its native form is easy to read pre and post snap. It’s not designed to confuse anyone. Simply put, it’s not easy to execute well against on the downs where we play it, medium to longer 3rd downs.
I have . . . He is . . . It’s really odd
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100% nailed that. I felt like I was going to get crucified if I posted my opinion after that game
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So much more to accomplish this year, but I have always been optimistic with the young talent on the defensive side of the ball, especially the line and linebackers. Just need to get back to treading water. Once those boys develop some, I think it will be some exciting football. Really need a damn safety though
Also keep an eye post snap at the corners. If they are pushed vertical it becomes man with outside leverage. Safeties typically will play really flat footed at some depth.
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No. I just want to transplant some of my heavy beard to the top of my head. I don't know how Lovie can live with that growth - constant trimming, fiddling. But Lovie: please do not shave! Bad luck. After the dreamed-for bowl game perhaps.
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I love watching the lineman most of the time.
If you enjoy reading I hear that Pat Kirwan's Book "Take Your Eye Off the Ball 2.0" is a good read.
Does it? Or does it make Lovie Smith the lovable genius we've grown to praise over the last 3 weeks?
If your read is to the near hash (This is the college game, remember. You're probably playing a 1-read offense) and the near hash CB and safety push vertical, the first thing your eyes will see is probably Man 1 or Cover 4, right? Those are essentially your only two options at first glance but let me ask you this, where is the WILL? Is he showing you Cover 2/Cover 4? If he is, you have likely run yourself right into the middle of Trap coverage.
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We ran this in 2008/2009 in the early adaptation. We would even align the nickel over #2 (only in slot) and do the same thing. We wanted the safeties to be able to play the run while still showing 2 high.
I think I understand your question. I will break it up. With the corners being pushed vertical with outside leverage the QB should be thinking a couple things pre-snap. Its either 2-man, Lovie Smith Tampa 2, and lastly Quarters. Once the #1 receiver pushes vertical and the corner follows he is then thinking its either 2- Man or Quarters. The outside leverages corner is then funneling the #1 receiver into the flat footed safety. If #1 receiver doesn't push vertical then the corners eyes need to locate the QB and #2 receiver while getting depth.
I was a defensive back so here goes nothing: In regards to the will. He will play very similar to cover 2 when on the short side of the field. Keys change depending on formation. He will go into Curl depth with his eyes on #2 (assuming there is a #2) and listen for a call from the corner. We used either a runner or rate call (#1 is going inside). Flat shouldn't scare you much (Lovie teams always fly to the ball).
Bolded: Exactly. If that's the look you get you are seeing Trap coverage and at the college level, more often than not you're defeated. As the QB, you either need to take the flat and whatever that gains you, leave the pocket and take your chances with your feet or get outside the box and simply throw it away, exhaling as you live to see another down. It's very effective coverage against a 1-read offense.
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Not trying to derail the current conversation because it is very interesting and the info is appreciated. But I was thinking about this the other day in terms of time of possession and how it relates to turnovers. Rutgers TOP - 34:09 IL TOP - 25:51. It is the simplest thing but I am sure it gets lost as it did with me. The more plays the opposing offense runs, the more likely the defense is eventually going to get a takeaway right. As long as the D gets enough time to get rested in between series of course. Just don't give up the big play and keep em out of the endzone.
O.K. carry on
Its crazy how the media only talks about how fast the offenses change, but they never talk about how the defense counters.
I want to create a stat (assuming its not already one). TOP in relation to production. I could care less (to an extent) about TOP or Yards as long as the points don't correspond. I think TOP in College is not as important because the likelihood of a mistake high higher than in the Pros.
Offense sells man.
Speaking of offense, it really does sound like MSU is trying to run Spread RPO. I cracked the puzzle as to why they're struggling, they're not built for that.
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