Pregame: Illinois at Michigan State, Thursday, January 7th, 8:00pm CT, ESPN

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#51      
So, Thorne and Black still out. No surprise there.
Too bad that it also sounds like they are out for some unknown number of games beyond this one.
 
#54      
Former Krush Cow
Chicago, IL
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?
 
#55      
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

tOSU is a 2 pt Dog against NW. :)
 
#56      
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

Trying to keep my Kool-Aid glass Half Full :D
 
#57      
Gilbert, AZ
If Thorne does indeed return this year, it would be a pretty good indication that the staff is not feeling very confident he will get a sixth year from the NCAA. JMO.

Or worst case scenario we hold him out and then the NCAA doesn't grant him the extra year.
 
#58      
Washington, DC
If Thorne does indeed return this year, it would be a pretty good indication that the staff is not feeling very confident he will get a sixth year from the NCAA. JMO.

If it is established that Thorne can return tomorrow, I'd say that reduces his chance of getting a sixth year from the NCAA to pretty close to zero.

You get a sixth year from the NCAA because you CANNOT play for two years. You do not get a sixth year from the NCAA if you CAN play, but the staff thinks it can gain a strategic advantage from waiting until next year to play.

Now, I realize that concepts like "able to play" are as fluid as recruiting, but if we put that problem aside for the sake of a hypothetical in which all agree he can return, then that hypothetical ability totally wipes out the chance of a sixth season.

Let me try this another, perhaps more coherent way: You can be able to play, OR you can qualify for a sixth year. You cannot do both.
 
#59      
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

MSU has looked fairly pedestrian without Valentine. They are still the better team, but it's a lot closer than it would be otherwise. Plus we've won our last 2 times in East Lansing and 5 of the last 12 there, so that probably influences some folks.
 
#60      
Tampa, FL
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

I'm with you. I enjoyed the OSU game as much as anyone could enjoy a loss. The freshmen are getting better. A couple of the juniors are becoming college stars. I'm excited about the future, including this B1G season. I just don't think @MSU is going to be our coming out party. I would absolutely love to be wrong, though.
 
#63      
I'm not sure where to put this, but Tracy took another step in his recovery. Adam Fletcher posted a video of Tracy doing front squats with a caption stating this is Tracy's first time under the bar since the injury.

https://twitter.com/Adam_Fletcher41/status/684881449829429248

Not sure about the chance of reoccurring an Achilles heal injury since each person is different, but I know we all hope the best for Tracy in the future with hopefully no more injuries of any kind!
 
#64      
If it is established that Thorne can return tomorrow, I'd say that reduces his chance of getting a sixth year from the NCAA to pretty close to zero.

You get a sixth year from the NCAA because you CANNOT play for two years. You do not get a sixth year from the NCAA if you CAN play, but the staff thinks it can gain a strategic advantage from waiting until next year to play.

Now, I realize that concepts like "able to play" are as fluid as recruiting, but if we put that problem aside for the sake of a hypothetical in which all agree he can return, then that hypothetical ability totally wipes out the chance of a sixth season.

Let me try this another, perhaps more coherent way: You can be able to play, OR you can qualify for a sixth year. You cannot do both.

In orthopedic injuries though, it is not a medical black and white situation. The ability to play depends on conditioning and recovery that varies significantly, it is not like a test (e.g., blood test) can define when someone is ready. It is the patient, in coordination with doctors, that determines readiness (i.e., not feeling discomfort and feeling ready). So if Mike Thorne says to the doctors that it his knee does not feel strong, it is not that the doctors can medically force him to play or argue with that. Or the NCAA for that matter.

In ACL, meniscus, and other knee injuries, part of the medical recovery is actually both the strengthening and the psychological recovery (e.g., the patient understands the damage, can feel the difference after surgical repair, understands that the knee is medically ready based on MRI, yet feels that his knee will buckle even when that might not the case). The MRI's after a certain point look the same, much earlier than a player's return.
 
#65      
Champaign, IL
Illinois +13.5. Back to back nights Vegas is offering a free win. Northwestern -2 without Olah vs Ohio St was criminal. Double digit dogs last year at MSU with Rice/Cosby in street clothes.
 
#66      
Michigan State's Deyonta Davis, a McDonald’s All-American, is a 6-10 freshman with a 7-2 wingspan who already has 32 blocked shots. Illinois’ leading shot-blocker, Malcolm Hill, has 12. When was the last time we had an intimidating defensive presence in the middle???????
 
#67      
New York, New York
Michigan State's Deyonta Davis, a McDonald’s All-American, is a 6-10 freshman with a 7-2 wingspan who already has 32 blocked shots. Illinois’ leading shot-blocker, Malcolm Hill, has 12. When was the last time we had an intimidating defensive presence in the middle???????

Egwu is the all-time leading shot blocker in Illinois basketball history.
 
#68      
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

Very good point. OSU was picked in the pre-season to finish in the lower third of the Big Ten.

The OSU game was arguably the best game we have played this season. Hopefully, we canplay with the same intensity and have some shoots drop.
 
#69      
Egwu is the all-time leading shot blocker in Illinois basketball history.

Speaking of Egwu, I saw him live in action in an NBDL game recently and he looked visibly stronger than in college.
 
#70      
Bloomington
Michigan State's Deyonta Davis, a McDonald’s All-American, is a 6-10 freshman with a 7-2 wingspan who already has 32 blocked shots. Illinois’ leading shot-blocker, Malcolm Hill, has 12. When was the last time we had an intimidating defensive presence in the middle???????

Uhh...last year?
 
#71      
New York, New York
Speaking of Egwu, I saw him live in action in an NBDL game recently and he looked visibly stronger than in college.

If he only had better eye-hand coordination I think he could actually stick in the league. It's tough to have a 6-11 player that can't rebound/catch on the floor. But, he does add enough apart from those facts to play basketball for a while longer. I guess we'll see how critical he was to the last two East Lansing wins tonight.
 
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#72      
Not necessarily. It could be an indication that Thorne has let them know he's not interested in staying on for another year.

In fact, Loren Tate recently mentioned the staff is feeling more certain of the 6th year if they do go that way.

It is a tough decision & not sure it can't be a combination of willingness to leave and chances on a waiver.
...Where is Thorne's view of the risk/reward?...even if it is 90% he gets the waiver, there is still a 10% chance you sit out, then lose the waiver along with an opportunity to make a last impression or at least show your healthy again before you try to turn pro.
...How much does he really need to do to improve his stock professionally. Assume foreign leagues also look for potential like the NBA, so maybe he doesn't need to be all the way back to game form, he put up good numbers when healthy, maybe just showing he is healthy & improving and letting teams extrapolate on where he ends up doesn't hurt his status...finishing the season now with 14ppg/8 rpg (or whatever number you want to make up) but trending upward might look better than 14/8 consistant across the year.
...taking a struggling B1G team that even our Koolaid crowd thinks is good for about 6 wins & getting them to the tournament would look pretty good on his resume as well.
...Is he ready/confident he can put up good enough numbers then there is an opportunity, if he isn't i think it is probably in his best interest to try to come back...but even that is extrapolation on how he will feel in a month or so, more than how he feels today.
...all I know about 6th year waiver I've read here, but sounded like you need to return if you are capable, it could be a stretch, but maybe making a good faith or the appearance of a good faith effort helps your case on the waiver as well.

Add to that that you delay a paycheck another year & it is a tough call for anything less than 100%. comeback for appearance sake? Tough spot for the kid
 
#73      
Mom! The Meatloaf!
I get that we played well against Ohio State, but I don't really see how that correlates to us playing a competitive game against msu. They are #5 and OSU doesn't even have votes. Am I missing something here, or is this just kool-aid?

tOSU was good enough on a given night to beat Kentucky. Could MSU beat Kentucky without Valentine?
 
#74      
...all I know about 6th year waiver I've read here, but sounded like you need to return if you are capable, it could be a stretch, but maybe making a good faith or the appearance of a good faith effort helps your case on the waiver as well.

It's only my opinion, but I think there's enough leeway to allow him to sit out the year and apply for the waiver if that's the direction they think they want to go. People take the "cleared to play" too literally IMO. I go back to the example of Brian Randle. He broke his hand prior to the start of the season and still got a medical RS. I'm no doctor, but I think his hand would have healed sufficiently by March where he would have been "cleared". Yet he didn't play. And IIRC he even volunteered to play vs UNC and Weber wouldn't let him. :D
 
#75      
It's only my opinion, but I think there's enough leeway to allow him to sit out the year and apply for the waiver if that's the direction they think they want to go. People take the "cleared to play" too literally IMO. I go back to the example of Brian Randle. He broke his hand prior to the start of the season and still got a medical RS. I'm no doctor, but I think his hand would have healed sufficiently by March where he would have been "cleared". Yet he didn't play. And IIRC he even volunteered to play vs UNC and Weber wouldn't let him. :D

I suspect you're right on the leeway as well. Getting someone to say he can't play seems like a pretty easy task if Thorne says his knee still hurts. But it is a bit out of your control and there are never any guarantees on something like this, so it at least gives Thorne & the staff something to think about.
 
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