Pregame: Illinois at Penn State, Saturday, January 3rd, 6:00pm CT, BTN

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#105      
illinibbcz
Illinois with a closer than anticipated game, (however the score won't really show it), 89-69
 
#106      
Fighter of the Nightman
Brosky said:
As it should.
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My understanding is that the distinction between "neutral" and "away" has never been as subjective as anticipating the travel burden of both teams, or much less making an assumption based on the crowd makeup. The United Center was filled with 95% Illini fans when we played Alabama there, but part of the appeal in the first place of scheduling that game is that we get credit for playing at a neutral site ... which is defined as a site other than either team's home gym. It would seem odd to me if the NET Rankings were always labeling one game like Illinois at the UC as neutral but then turning around and labeling a PSU game in Philly as a "home game" for them.

If that's the case, they changed how they did things somewhere along the line, and I definitely do not agree that this should count as a true home game from PSU's perspective ... the makeup of the crowd and distance to either campus is only so relevant, the fact is they're getting on a bus to have a genuine road trip, where they will not be playing in their home gym on the hoops that they're used to seeing. If the NET Rankings start treating our United Center game as a home game, where we need the opponent to be top 30 to be Quad 1 rather than top 50?? That would be an incredibly raw deal, and we would likely stop doing it.
 
#107      
HereSoIDontGetFined
Fighter of the Nightman said:
My understanding is that the distinction between "neutral" and "away" has never been as subjective as anticipating the travel burden of both teams, or much less making an assumption based on the crowd makeup. The United Center was filled with 95% Illini fans when we played Alabama there, but part of the appeal in the first place of scheduling that game is that we get credit for playing at a neutral site ... which is defined as a site other than either team's home gym. It would seem odd to me if the NET Rankings were always labeling one game like Illinois at the UC as neutral but then turning around and labeling a PSU game in Philly as a "home game" for them.

If that's the case, they changed how they did things somewhere along the line, and I definitely do not agree that this should count as a true home game from PSU's perspective ... the makeup of the crowd and distance to either campus is only so relevant, the fact is they're getting on a bus to have a genuine road trip, where they will not be playing in their home gym on the hoops that they're used to seeing. If the NET Rankings start treating our United Center game as a home game, where we need the opponent to be top 30 to be Quad 1 rather than top 50?? That would be an incredibly raw deal, and we would likely stop doing it.
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Philly is considerably further away from State College than Chicago is from Champaign. Should absolutely be marked as a neutral site game.
 
#108      
IlliniFan42
Fighter of the Nightman said:
My understanding is that the distinction between "neutral" and "away" has never been as subjective as anticipating the travel burden of both teams, or much less making an assumption based on the crowd makeup. The United Center was filled with 95% Illini fans when we played Alabama there, but part of the appeal in the first place of scheduling that game is that we get credit for playing at a neutral site ... which is defined as a site other than either team's home gym. It would seem odd to me if the NET Rankings were always labeling one game like Illinois at the UC as neutral but then turning around and labeling a PSU game in Philly as a "home game" for them.

If that's the case, they changed how they did things somewhere along the line, and I definitely do not agree that this should count as a true home game from PSU's perspective ... the makeup of the crowd and distance to either campus is only so relevant, the fact is they're getting on a bus to have a genuine road trip, where they will not be playing in their home gym on the hoops that they're used to seeing. If the NET Rankings start treating our United Center game as a home game, where we need the opponent to be top 30 to be Quad 1 rather than top 50?? That would be an incredibly raw deal, and we would likely stop doing it.
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It's an interesting question. To me- they chose to host a Big Ten home game in a different college gym within their state. For a game to be a neutral site within the same state it's gotta be a real stadium in my opinion.
 
#109      
ptgrd23
State College to Philadelphia 193 miles
Champaign to Philadelphia 765 miles

Champaign to Chicago 135 miles
Tuscaloosa to Chicago 717 miles

Knoxville to Nashville 180 miles
Champaign to Nashville 376 miles

Good question. Easiest and traditional is to say if you are playing off campus it is neutral site game. I would call the Penn State, Bama and TN games as neutral. However I get the argument they could be called home games.
 
#110      
Fighter of the Nightman
IlliniFan42 said:
It's an interesting question. To me- they chose to host a Big Ten home game in a different college gym within their state. For a game to be a neutral site within the same state it's gotta be a real stadium in my opinion.
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Yeah, I definitely think it's a fine line and will always come down to subjective cutoffs. I don't think anyone would question that Illinois/Missouri is a true neutral, with a 50/50 crowd in a market that is split between our states. On the other extreme, I think everyone would find it fishy if we randomly played a game at Huff Hall and claimed it was technically not our home gym so it should be counted as "neutral site," lol.

The in between games are tricky. Should we be given credit for playing Alabama at a "neutral site" at the UC? I would say 110% yes. As you said, it is a proper NBA-sized arena, and it's not our fault that Alabama didn't show up as far as fans. Basically, I don't think the makeup of the crowd should have any bearing on the designation, and I think distance from campus should only matter so much (e.g., who cares if Michigan is close to Detroit, that is clearly a neutral site). I think the key is the type of arena ... but again, then you get into some pretty subjective cutoffs.
 
#112      
OrangeBlue98
Let me throw a few hypotheticals out there and see what people think in terms of whether a game is neutral site. I’ll add my opinions.

Illinois vs Alabama at Birmingham (yes)
Illinois vs Oklahoma State at Paycor Arena in OKC (yes)
Illinois vs Oklahoma at Paycor Arena (I’d say no-Norman is a suburb of OKC about 20 minutes away)
Illinois vs Stanford or Cal at Chase Center (no)
Illinois vs Stanford or Cal in San Jose (yes)
Illinois vs Iowa State in Des Moines (yes, but barely-the Cyclones would never do this).

For me, I think there’s a 25 or 30 mile radius from campus that shouldn’t be considered as a neutral game. Anything outside of that is a neutral game.

For the record, I strongly believe our games at the UC and the game Saturday are both neutral site games.
 
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#115      
IlliniFan42
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Yeah, I definitely think it's a fine line and will always come down to subjective cutoffs. I don't think anyone would question that Illinois/Missouri is a true neutral, with a 50/50 crowd in a market that is split between our states. On the other extreme, I think everyone would find it fishy if we randomly played a game at Huff Hall and claimed it was technically not our home gym so it should be counted as "neutral site," lol.

The in between games are tricky. Should we be given credit for playing Alabama at a "neutral site" at the UC? I would say 110% yes. As you said, it is a proper NBA-sized arena, and it's not our fault that Alabama didn't show up as far as fans. Basically, I don't think the makeup of the crowd should have any bearing on the designation, and I think distance from campus should only matter so much (e.g., who cares if Michigan is close to Detroit, that is clearly a neutral site). I think the key is the type of arena ... but again, then you get into some pretty subjective cutoffs.
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I've got another good one- the Quad Cities Hoops Showdown. It was considered a neutral site game for Iowa that took place at the Vibrant Arena in Moline, an hour away from Iowa's campus. They played Washington State. It seats less for basketball than Iowa's actual home court. It's a "real court" in a different state, but that one really tests the limits of what's a neutral site game.

Iowa also played this year at the Casey's Center in Des Moines. Considered a neutral site game. They played Bucknell, a school from Pennsylvania.

Maybe it really is as simple as if the arena's a college arena or not?
 
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#117      
fuggles
OrangeBlue98 said:
Illinois vs Stanford or Cal at Chase Center (no)
Illinois vs Stanford or Cal in San Jose (yes)
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Nit picking.
Cal to Chase no for sure. Berkeley just a short drive across the bridge.
Stanford yes. its a long and difficult drive from Palo Alto. Trains are no good.
Stanford in San Jose no. Easy drive many do it all the time. My wife worked at SLAC when we were in San Jose. The heart of Silicon Valley. So many alums in the south bay.
 
#119      
Indy Illini Fan
IlliniFan42 said:
If I'm a bettor- I don't like the Illini's recent history against Penn State and Penn State's only Big Ten home game they held close to Michigan State.
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This Penn State team is just awful though ... Outside of Mingo and maybe Freddie, I don't think any of these dudes would see the floor on our team ...

If our guys show up mentally ready, this game will be 25+ point blowout ...
 
#120      
Fighter of the Nightman
fuggles said:
Nit picking.
Cal to Chase no for sure. Berkeley just a short drive across the bridge.
Stanford yes. its a long and difficult drive from Palo Alto. Trains are no good.
Stanford in San Jose no. Easy drive many do it all the time. My wife worked at SLAC when we were in San Jose. The heart of Silicon Valley. So many alums in the south bay.
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I think any "real arena" in a predominantly pro-sports-focused metro area should count, regardless of distance. For example, if Maryland "hosted" Kentucky at the Wizards' arena in DC, it would only be like 10-15 miles from Maryland's campus ... but DC is not some small market where there are only Maryland fans, and it is likely many UK fans would make the trip and all UK alumni in the DC/MD/VA area would take notice that their team would be playing close.
 
#121      
Fighter of the Nightman
illini0440 said:
Yes. Penn st is awful
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I touched on this in the Bracketology thread, but PSU is one of the lowest ranked Power Conference teams in the NET Rankings, and Rutgers is even worse at #197. We need to win both of these games before Iowa comfortably and keep building some momentum and confidence! I don't care where this game is played, we should run them out of the gym ... and it feels really good to honestly feel that way!!
 
#122      
IlliniFan42
Indy Illini Fan said:
This Penn State team is just awful though ... Outside of Mingo and maybe Freddie, I don't think any of these dudes would see the floor on our team ...

If our guys show up mentally ready, this game will be 25+ point blowout ...
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I guess the questions are what's the spread if we're not mentally ready and what are the odds that we show up mentally ready?

For example- if we assign "not mentally ready" a 5-point spread, and we say there's a 50/50 chance we're mentally ready, that averages out to (5+25)/2 = 15.
 
#123      
OrangeBlue98
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I think any "real arena" in a predominantly pro-sports-focused metro area should count, regardless of distance. For example, if Maryland "hosted" Kentucky at the Wizards' arena in DC, it would only be like 10-15 miles from Maryland's campus ... but DC is not some small market where there are only Maryland fans, and it is likely many UK fans would make the trip and all UK alumni in the DC/MD/VA area would take notice that their team would be playing close.
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That’s reasonably fair. For me, the dividing line is probably that hypothetical game against Oklahoma at Paycom (not Paycor-that’s the Bengals Stadium). NBA Arena in a pro sports focused town with the Thunder, but it’s a 27 minute drive per Google Maps from Lloyd Noble Arena to Paycom. I just don’t consider that as a neutral game. Most of the people attending that game are likely attending the games in Norman anyway.
 
#124      
Fighter of the Nightman
IlliniFan42 said:
I guess the questions are what's the spread if we're not mentally ready and what are the odds that we show up mentally ready?

For example- if we assign "not mentally ready" a 5-point spread, and we say there's a 50/50 chance we're mentally ready, that averages out to (5+25)/2 = 15.
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I know this is subjective, but I would grade "how mentally ready" we were to kick off each post-Alabama Power Conference game something like this:

Nov. 28 vs. UConn ... C-
Dec. 6 - vs. Tennessee ... A
Dec. 9 - at Ohio State ... A
Dec. 13 - vs. Nebraska ... C
Dec. 22 - vs. Missouri ... A++

When you take into account how we responded to fight back against Nebraska, I would say overall it is a very positive trend. So I put our "showing up ready" odds at closer to 60/40 and maybe closer to 50/50 for Rutgers in the event we are looking too forward to Iowa.
 
#125      
DeeIL89
This is a bad Penn State squad. A Mike Rhodes team's calling card is defense and this Penn State's defense is pretty bad. They do force turnovers but that doesn't matter when they are this bad on defense. Should be a 20 plus win for us. If are guys come in with the mindset that Michigan State did against Penn State then it's going to be a long night. However, I think our guys will continue the energy momentum and get the win.
 
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