Pregame: Illinois vs Iowa State, Thursday, March 28th, 9:09pm CT, TBS

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#451      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
allinforisu said:
Cherry picking the best 5 years of the Underwood era?

I won’t argue ISU total history comes close to touching Illinois because it doesn’t. But since 2010, Iowa State has had more success, other than 1 year we do not speak of.
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Cherry picking the last 5 years is no more arbitrary than cherry picking the last 10-15, no? And of course ISU was a much better program while we were saddled with John Groce and late-stage Bruce Weber ... I guess I just don't think any ISU fan should really think that this is going to mean a whole lot to Illini fans. It would require that John Groce and Bruce Weber represent any sort of "norm" for Illini basketball. Considering the consistent success before and after them, it seems obvious they do not.

And again, this kind of goes back to my original point ... even though we have a much better all-time history and a slightly better track record over the last 5 years, you still find Illini fans being relatively humble and showing respect to Iowa State. Meanwhile, ISU fans are acting like they exist in a tier above us ... with clearly very little reason to believe that. I have no agenda to put down Iowa State, merely to point out that they should logically be showing a LOT more respect to the Illini.
 
#452      

allinforisu

A
allinforisu
SkyysNotFalling said:
4 All American selections in Brads last 5 years is the same amount as Iowa State all time.

You don’t like past 5 years but would rather do last 10? What if we want to go back to since 2000? Or even further..?

Iowa States peak as a program was between 2012-now. Since 2012 Iowa State has 10 tournament appearances, 0 regular season B12 titles, 5 conference tournament titles, 4 sweet 16s.

Let’s cherry pick Illinois best 12 year stretch….2001-2013..10 tourney appearances, 4 regular season b1G titles, 2 conference tournament titles, 4 sweet 16s, an elite 8, and Final 4.

We can do this all day…..

Iowa State has been good since the 2010’s, Illinois has been better the past 5 years…. Illinois was really bad in the 2010’s…. Now we’re both really good. That should be it…
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I agree and have said Illinois’ history is significantly better. I think some are thinking I’m trying to pick fights, but in my mind I’m just trying to provide the other side of the coin. If it’s not coming off like that, I apologize.
 
#453      

allinforisu

A
allinforisu
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Cherry picking the last 5 years is no more arbitrary than cherry picking the last 10-15, no? And of course ISU was a much better program while we were saddled with John Groce and late-stage Bruce Weber ... I guess I just don't think any ISU fan should really think that this is going to mean a whole lot to Illini fans. It would require that John Groce and Bruce Weber represent any sort of "norm" for Illini basketball. Considering the consistent success before and after them, it seems obvious they do not.

And again, this kind of goes back to my original point ... even though we have a much better all-time history and a slightly better track record over the last 5 years, you still find Illini fans being relatively humble and showing respect to Iowa State. Meanwhile, ISU fans are acting like they exist in a tier above us ... with clearly very little reason to believe that. I have no agenda to put down Iowa State, merely to point out that they should logically be showing a LOT more respect to the Illini.
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I have found Iowa State fans feel the need to fight for their team. Perceived slights hit harder due to media in our state getting on their knees for the Hawkeyes and Iowa State is overlooked, even though they have arguably been better than Iowa this century.
 
#454      

SuperintendentChalmers

SuperintendentChalmers
SuperintendentChalmers
Fighter of the Nightman said:
And again, this kind of goes back to my original point ... even though we have a much better all-time history and a slightly better track record over the last 5 years, you still find Illini fans being relatively humble and showing respect to Iowa State. Meanwhile, ISU fans are acting like they exist in a tier above us ... with clearly very little reason to believe that. I have no agenda to put down Iowa State, merely to point out that they should logically be showing a LOT more respect to the Illini.
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All these years, I thought the issue was with the University of Iowa, rahter than the state.
 
#455      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
OrangeBlue98 said:
The Iowa State fans who are off the deep end generally have a serious case of “little brother syndrome” as it pertains to Iowa. They don’t have to think like that related to basketball to be honest, but some do.

I’ve lived around and worked with Cyclone fans pretty much my entire life. The specter of Iowa looms large for a not-small number of them. Most Cyclone fans that I know are generally reasonable.
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Yes, I spent A LOT of my life in Iowa City, and my parents actually live 50% of the time in Des Moines now. Nothing but respect for the state AND I hate the Hawkeyes, so it would be a really shaky accusation to say I have anything inherently against the Cyclones. With that said, for them to question OUR instate support is truly throwing a stone from a glass house. While Iowa fans always SEVERELY underestimate the fan support ISU enjoys across the state, it remains undeniable that they are very outnumbered by Hawkeyes fans everywhere except for just north of Des Moines. Additionally, non-alum fans are WAY more common among the Iowa fan base than the ISU fan base ... people can get elitist about that if they want, but it will mean you have a smaller following. Anyone who has spent any time in Downstate Illinois knows that there are tons of non-alum Illini fans who cheer for them because they're the state flagship school, me being one of them. To deny that (as the ISU message boards do) is to be completely disconnected from reality. One fan on their board even claimed Iowa State is more followed in Chicagoland than Illinois. :ROFLMAO: I expect those kind of asinine claims from Hawkeyes fans, even though they have like 30k alumni here to Illinois' 220k+ ... to have it come from a Cyclone is just deranged.

And in my experience, the Iowa prominence instate indeed really bothers ISU. They feel they should be on equal footing with Iowa as far as fan support goes (at LEAST in Des Moines and west of there!), but they definitely are not. I guess given those circumstances, I was expecting a passionate-but-down-to-Earth fan base on their boards. Instead, you got attitudes you'd expect from Michigan football fans, lol. I still respect the program and the fans overall ... my actual interactions with Iowa State
 
#456      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
allinforisu said:
I have found Iowa State fans feel the need to fight for their team. Perceived slights hit harder due to media in our state getting on their knees for the Hawkeyes and Iowa State is overlooked, even though they have arguably been better than Iowa this century.
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And I think that is fine, and I empathize with that. However, what I read on your board was a total contempt and disrespect, mostly coming from breathtaking ignorance, for not just our team, but our program, fan base and state in general. These claims would be similar to me saying Drake had more fans in Des Moines than Iowa State, I didn't even know ISU had fans, that there were no ISU fans outside of Ames, that Illinois had a larger following in Des Moines than ISU, etc. Lol, I mean it's just like making stuff up to spite a team (Illinois) you have next to no history or animosity with??
 
#457      

TheodoreRex

T
TheodoreRex
I know it's hindsight and we also already have a very good team, but I have to wonder whether or not Harris could've really helped our team this year (especially with how poor Harmon has played lately, though his defense was solid on Saturday).
 
#458      

Illini20

I
Illini20
USAFILLINI said:
I watched BYUs first round game, and if they are worried about BYU, they are in for a LONG game on Thursday.
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Illinois is BYU on steroids offensively. Defensively, we play much better than our ratings suggest, and then take our foot off the pedal when we’re up big. It cost us against Penn St.
 
#459      

IlliniKat91

IlliniKat91
Chicago, IL
IlliniKat91
Fighter of the Nightman said:
And I think that is fine, and I empathize with that. However, what I read on your board was a total contempt and disrespect, mostly coming from breathtaking ignorance, for not just our team, but our program, fan base and state in general. These claims would be similar to me saying Drake had more fans in Des Moines than Iowa State, I didn't even know ISU had fans, that there were no ISU fans outside of Ames, that Illinois had a larger following in Des Moines than ISU, etc. Lol, I mean it's just like making stuff up to spite a team (Illinois) you have next to no history or animosity with??
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Not like, it is just that.

But that happens with fan bases who suffer from little brother syndrome. Just look at Evanston's Big Ten Team.
 
#460      

Bigtex

Bigtex
DFW
Bigtex
allinforisu said:
ISU fan here visiting your board. It's great to see a forum presence for an Iowa State opponent in the tournament and can hopefully have some civil discussion before Thursday.

To this point above, there is next to zero chance Iowa State plays zone. They have players that have shown they can match up man to man against some of the best teams in the country. Their defense is elite and has been the last 3 years (5th in 2022, 8th in 2023, Currently 2nd in 2024) under Coach Otz, zone isn't going to start in the Sweet 16. The thing that has changed in the last 3 years is the offense they went from 171 to 114 to this year at 48.

This Iowa State team will probably be the second or third best team Illinois has played this year.
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Good Luck should be a great matchup.

Best team Illinois played Purdue x2. Both close losses.
IMO Illinois is peaking in March - feeling a little Kemba Walker for Shannon during this tournament.
 
#461      

ugottabjoshinme

ugottabjoshinme
ugottabjoshinme
Get yourself a new map said:
“Why not 50?” - Indiana fans.
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So Good Chefs Kiss GIF by Your Happy Workplace
 
#463      

allinforisu

A
allinforisu
Fighter of the Nightman said:
And I think that is fine, and I empathize with that. However, what I read on your board was a total contempt and disrespect, mostly coming from breathtaking ignorance, for not just our team, but our program, fan base and state in general. These claims would be similar to me saying Drake had more fans in Des Moines than Iowa State, I didn't even know ISU had fans, that there were no ISU fans outside of Ames, that Illinois had a larger following in Des Moines than ISU, etc. Lol, I mean it's just like making stuff up to spite a team (Illinois) you have next to no history or animosity with??
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I can only speak from my experiences. I don’t remember a ton of Illinois fans growing up in the town I grew up in, but I could have just been oblivious. My wife says that’s a trait of mine. The fans I do know, I respect, in fact I went to HS with Jeremy Werner and I have some friends I have met over the years that are hardcore fans.

And please remember, the forums don’t reflect the entire fanbase.
 
#465      

JFGsCoffeeMug

JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
JFGsCoffeeMug
ChiefGritty said:
In fairness we did play #3 defense Tennessee and #4 defense Rutgers twice.

ISU played #6 offense Baylor twice and #13 offense BYU twice. I suppose you might say we're a bit of a mix of the two.

The four best offenses ISU has played against are Baylor, BYU, Houston and Texas A&M and they lost to all four (though also had four wins against that group)
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Yeah, but their fans are also saying Tenn and Rutgers are a poor approximation of what the #1 defense looks like. Which could be true. I certainly don't know.

It would be similar to ISU fans saying they can handle TSJ because they've played against other players who are quick on the break. That might be true. But they haven't played against the quickest yet, so I think that's TBD.
 
#467      

CyTarmac

C
CyTarmac
ChiefGritty said:
In fairness we did play #3 defense Tennessee and #4 defense Rutgers twice.

ISU played #6 offense Baylor twice and #13 offense BYU twice. I suppose you might say we're a bit of a mix of the two.

The four best offenses ISU has played against are Baylor, BYU, Houston and Texas A&M and they lost to all four (though also had four wins against that group)
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Another Clone fan pointed it out, but the A&M game as well as the Virginia Tech game we were without Hasan Ward. He was out from the 3rd week of November until the start of conference play. We're likely two wins better with him in the lineup. But the BYU shellacking in Provo was with our full contingent...if anyone is hitting 3's like that, we're gonna lose. The extra pass/swing pass killed us that night. The Baylor loss...we were getting beaten soundly (down 14-16 6 minutes into the second half) and stormed back to lose on the last second shot. One thing TJ's teams are known for is continuing to fight. If you guys get up early, it'll be interesting to see how we respond in tournament circumstances. This should be the best S16 game.
 
#468      

CyTarmac

C
CyTarmac
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
Yeah, but their fans are also saying Tenn and Rutgers are a poor approximation of what the #1 defense looks like. Which could be true. I certainly don't know.

It would be similar to ISU fans saying they can handle TSJ because they've played against other players who are quick on the break. That might be true. But they haven't played against the quickest yet, so I think that's TBD.
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Shannon has faced TJ's defense before while at TTech. He scored 4. Granted he was a Sophomore. He didn't play in both matchups that season. The defensive scheme was pretty much the same that year, our guys just execute it better this year.
 
#469      

the national

the national
the Front Range
the national
CV Illini said:
This Iowa state team is legit. I was court side for all games Thursday and Saturday. I will say it’s going to take a complete game to beat them. I will also say their fan base reminds me of the Hawkeye fan base. I was 2 rows behind the WSU bench on Saturday and the F bombs directed at the college athletes by a multitude of ISU fans was ridiculous. I didn’t have a horse in the race so I was just in observation mode and most all of them around me were top level obnoxious. I’m sure comparing the Iowa state fans to the Iowa fans won’t go over well, but if you’ve ever been to an Iowa/Illinois game at Carver you know what I’m talking about. In defense of the ISU fan base this is based on a small sample size of a couple of games.
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I’ve been to many Iowa state games over the past 20yrs. I’d say by and large your sample was not reflective of thier fans. But also, that arena was overwhelmingly cardinal and gold. I was there in the 10th row. The volume just went up to 11 when they tipped. The Iowa state fans near us were very gracious and commentary. The fellas behind me (I was ease dropping) actually said this was another reason why the committee screwed the East, that Illinois and Iowa State deserved better, not to meet in the s16 but later in the tourney. Halfway through Sat’s game, an ISU fan two rows in front of me, turns around and said “TSJ is scary good. If you haven’t seen him in person, you just don’t understand how good he is. He’s the best player in this tournament. I’m totally blown away.”
 
#470      

IlliniKat91

IlliniKat91
Chicago, IL
IlliniKat91
CyTarmac said:
Shannon has faced TJ's defense before while at TTech. He scored 4. Granted he was a Sophomore. He didn't play in both matchups that season. The defensive scheme was pretty much the same that year, our guys just execute it better this year.
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Fifth year senior vs. sophomore isn't a good comparison. And that's without getting into what he's become working with our strength and conditioning coach. He's one of the top scoring threats in the nation and has been on a roll since the a Big Ten Tournament.

TSJ is one threat. You have to shut down him, Domask, and Hawkins if you want to cruise. That isn't even taking into account the supporting cast. ISU's defense is elite and will slow us down, but the odds of it shutting off everyone's water is incredibly slim
 
#471      

JFGsCoffeeMug

JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
Chicago
JFGsCoffeeMug
CyTarmac said:
Shannon has faced TJ's defense before while at TTech. He scored 4. Granted he was a Sophomore. He didn't play in both matchups that season. The defensive scheme was pretty much the same that year, our guys just execute it better this year.
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If you think TSJ right now is anything like sophomore TSJ, you're in for a treat on Thursday.
 
#472      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
Yeah, but their fans are also saying Tenn and Rutgers are a poor approximation of what the #1 defense looks like. Which could be true. I certainly don't know.

It would be similar to ISU fans saying they can handle TSJ because they've played against other players who are quick on the break. That might be true. But they haven't played against the quickest yet, so I think that's TBD.
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My working model of this game is that ISU is going to significantly disrupt our ability to play half-court offense, and the question is how much we can lean on other advantages (size, rebounding, fast break points, a better shooting night than them) to make that not matter.

Another thing I never thought I'd say as a fan of a Big Ten team: the tighter the refs call this game, the better.
 
#473      

the national

the national
the Front Range
the national
ChiefGritty said:
My working model of this game is that ISU is going to significantly disrupt our ability to play half-court offense, and the question is how much we can lean on other advantages (size, rebounding, fast break points, a better shooting night than them) to make that not matter.

Another thing I never thought I'd say as a fan of a Big Ten team: the tighter the refs call this game, the better.
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💯 agree.

I’ll add that our rebounding might be of premium importance in this matchup. 2nd chance points for both teams might spell the difference.
 
#474      

IllGuardU

I
IllGuardU
ChiefGritty said:
My working model of this game is that ISU is going to significantly disrupt our ability to play half-court offense, and the question is how much we can lean on other advantages (size, rebounding, fast break points, a better shooting night than them) to make that not matter.

Another thing I never thought I'd say as a fan of a Big Ten team: the tighter the refs call this game, the better.
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I haven’t watched a bunch of B12 games, but the ones I’ve seen allow a lot of bumping and slapping. If they call it reasonably, we should be in good shape.
 
#475      

allinforisu

A
allinforisu
ChiefGritty said:
My working model of this game is that ISU is going to significantly disrupt our ability to play half-court offense, and the question is how much we can lean on other advantages (size, rebounding, fast break points, a better shooting night than them) to make that not matter.

Another thing I never thought I'd say as a fan of a Big Ten team: the tighter the refs call this game, the better.
Click to expand...

The officiating has been my biggest concern since the tournament tipped. If it gets officiated like the A&M/Houston game last night, ISU will get boat raced.
 
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