Pregame: Illinois vs Kansas State, Tuesday, November 23rd, 6:00pm CT, ESPNews

Status
Not open for further replies.
#76      
I miss that, as well. :( What is depressing now is that I have had tickets to the Arizona game for my birthday for a while now, and I got SO much more hyped for it after Arizona entered the top 25, thinking that could even be a top 10 matchup. Now I am just depressed that we might be unranked and get smoked.

It's hard to overstate just how deflating the effort and performance was last night, all around. I would love nothing more than for these guys to respond with how we LITERALLY KNOW they're capable of playing tonight, but they honestly looked lost and broken yesterday. It was frankly bizarre.
Wouldn’t be surprised if we’re unranked, but maybe team starts putting it together tonight and goes on winning streak. Then that win over Arizona would put the Illini back into top 25.
 
#77      
Trying to make some sense of what we are seeing, I wanted to go back and look at recruiting from 2016:

1637697808806.png



Now, I will admit I have done zero research with how this compares to other teams, but I think it is pretty striking to see that currently we only have 2/13 players remaining from 2016 - 2018. Within 2019 we can all agree that Kofi is a star but BVV is still very much raw and developing and Hamlin/Kouma no longer with the team. Then in 2020 you have a few solid pieces in Belo, Hawkins, and Grandison, but you also have Lieb who doesn't see the floor and Hutcherson who is just now seeing the floor but is unproven. The loss of Adam Miller seems particularly glaring over these last few games.

Obviously the season is young and there are many games left to be played, but I think that 2018 class is really coming back to hurt us. I understand there are several reasons why these players are no longer on the team, but to be 0/7 with that class right now I don't think is doing us any favors. Add that to the fact that it doesn't seem that any of the 2021 freshman are ready for major minutes (Goode probably furthest along) and the 2021 transfers have been fairly quiet thus far, we could be in for a very rough season....
 
#78      
The KISS Goals for the Game (besides win): consistent ball movement, defensive intensity, focus on fast breaks off rebounds, no more trash talk

….

And fewer open mouth camera shots than ol’ Brucey
 
#79      
Just rewatched, here are some less emotional observations.

Pace - Consistently Kofi beat his guy down court and/or had great early position after a make, but we slowly got the ball up court. Should have pushed to get it up and into the Big man before the half court got condensed and easier to double/triple team.

Pick and Roll - Supposedly going to be our bread and butter, but Cincy, just like Marquette and Loyola, dropped the on ball defender with the big, daring the shot. Zero fear by the D that the ball handler will hit a J or that the screener will pop out instead of Roll. This is too easy to defend. Going to need some variations on these or else this action will continue to fail and without Pick and Roll Curbelo's issues will continue.

Offensive Chemistry - I know the spread is basically a NBA/Pro stlye offense, but we played way too much one on one. Call it hero ball, selfish or just bad game planning, but you can tell everyone is trying to hit home runs. They need to trust each other, move with purpose and start making the simple play. Nothing wrong with a little small ball. Hit some singles, doesn't always have to be a homerun. Can't have a grandslam without base runners. ILL!
 
#80      
Trying to make some sense of what we are seeing, I wanted to go back and look at recruiting from 2016:

View attachment 13237


Now, I will admit I have done zero research with how this compares to other teams, but I think it is pretty striking to see that currently we only have 2/13 players remaining from 2016 - 2018. Within 2019 we can all agree that Kofi is a star but BVV is still very much raw and developing and Hamlin/Kouma no longer with the team. Then in 2020 you have a few solid pieces in Belo, Hawkins, and Grandison, but you also have Lieb who doesn't see the floor and Hutcherson who is just now seeing the floor but is unproven. The loss of Adam Miller seems particularly glaring over these last few games.

Obviously the season is young and there are many games left to be played, but I think that 2018 class is really coming back to hurt us. I understand there are several reasons why these players are no longer on the team, but to be 0/7 with that class right now I don't think is doing us any favors. Add that to the fact that it doesn't seem that any of the 2021 freshman are ready for major minutes (Goode probably furthest along) and the 2021 transfers have been fairly quiet thus far, we could be in for a very rough season....
Nice to see this laid out.

What about Melendez? He made a couple plays yesterday despite missing a pair of FTs. He was at least assertive with the ball.
 
#82      
Pebble Beach, CA
Trying to make some sense of what we are seeing, I wanted to go back and look at recruiting from 2016:

View attachment 13237


Now, I will admit I have done zero research with how this compares to other teams, but I think it is pretty striking to see that currently we only have 2/13 players remaining from 2016 - 2018. Within 2019 we can all agree that Kofi is a star but BVV is still very much raw and developing and Hamlin/Kouma no longer with the team. Then in 2020 you have a few solid pieces in Belo, Hawkins, and Grandison, but you also have Lieb who doesn't see the floor and Hutcherson who is just now seeing the floor but is unproven. The loss of Adam Miller seems particularly glaring over these last few games.

Obviously the season is young and there are many games left to be played, but I think that 2018 class is really coming back to hurt us. I understand there are several reasons why these players are no longer on the team, but to be 0/7 with that class right now I don't think is doing us any favors. Add that to the fact that it doesn't seem that any of the 2021 freshman are ready for major minutes (Goode probably furthest along) and the 2021 transfers have been fairly quiet thus far, we could be in for a very rough season....
Having DMFW and Trent back for another year at least partially offsets the missing 2018 class. We're definitely missing the intensity and confidence that several in that class brought to the team, however, so I mostly agree with your assertion.
 
#84      
Invisible and Bulletproof
Miracle Mile
Trying to make some sense of what we are seeing, I wanted to go back and look at recruiting from 2016:

View attachment 13237


Now, I will admit I have done zero research with how this compares to other teams, but I think it is pretty striking to see that currently we only have 2/13 players remaining from 2016 - 2018. Within 2019 we can all agree that Kofi is a star but BVV is still very much raw and developing and Hamlin/Kouma no longer with the team. Then in 2020 you have a few solid pieces in Belo, Hawkins, and Grandison, but you also have Lieb who doesn't see the floor and Hutcherson who is just now seeing the floor but is unproven. The loss of Adam Miller seems particularly glaring over these last few games.

Obviously the season is young and there are many games left to be played, but I think that 2018 class is really coming back to hurt us. I understand there are several reasons why these players are no longer on the team, but to be 0/7 with that class right now I don't think is doing us any favors. Add that to the fact that it doesn't seem that any of the 2021 freshman are ready for major minutes (Goode probably furthest along) and the 2021 transfers have been fairly quiet thus far, we could be in for a very rough season....
I don't disagree with your overall premise, but the total lack of any remaining 2018 players is somewhat mitigated by the continued presence of Trent and Da'Monte which obviously wouldn't be the case under normal circumstances. To your final point, I hope that the super seniors don't hamper the development of the younger guys.
 
#85      
Trying to make some sense of what we are seeing, I wanted to go back and look at recruiting from 2016:

View attachment 13237


Now, I will admit I have done zero research with how this compares to other teams, but I think it is pretty striking to see that currently we only have 2/13 players remaining from 2016 - 2018. Within 2019 we can all agree that Kofi is a star but BVV is still very much raw and developing and Hamlin/Kouma no longer with the team. Then in 2020 you have a few solid pieces in Belo, Hawkins, and Grandison, but you also have Lieb who doesn't see the floor and Hutcherson who is just now seeing the floor but is unproven. The loss of Adam Miller seems particularly glaring over these last few games.

Obviously the season is young and there are many games left to be played, but I think that 2018 class is really coming back to hurt us. I understand there are several reasons why these players are no longer on the team, but to be 0/7 with that class right now I don't think is doing us any favors. Add that to the fact that it doesn't seem that any of the 2021 freshman are ready for major minutes (Goode probably furthest along) and the 2021 transfers have been fairly quiet thus far, we could be in for a very rough season....
You should do this analysis for Kentucky and Duke over that same time-frame.
 
#87      
Paducah, Ky
I had repressed that memory.
Please tell me how to do that !!!!!!

That's what haunt's me all these years ....The BAD losses get worse as time goes on....

The loss in the Braggin Rights game where Garris missed thos eFT's in whatever OT it was, etc etc..

The loss last night will get brought up ad nauseum for eternity and I will get sick to my gut , all over again.....

BTW , the ad for a swollen prostate is creepy , even for me ...............
 
Last edited:
#89      
There is no way the Illini lose to KSU, Bruce Weber, and Mark Smith. Right? Please, tell me I'm right about that. Losing to KSU, okay maybe I could live with that. Maybe even losing to Weber. Losing to Mark Smith (again)...well, that would be off-the-charts bad.
 
#91      
What? The guy with the ball doesn't have to be the default leader because he's the PG. I'm not talking about taking the ball or PG spot away from him, I'm talking about leadership.
My comment was based upon my assumption that you wanted others to take over the scoring and offense. My apologies if you meant otherwise.
 
#92      
The 2018 thing is pretty much mitigated for me by 3 of them being in the Pros now. I'm not that worried about it.
Addition by subtraction on the rest of them.
 
#93      
You should do this analysis for Kentucky and Duke over that same time-frame.
Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. would probably be a better comparison. I don't think you can necessarily compare against these teams that are bringing in multiple 5*'s each year and having multiple players leave each year to enter their names into the NBA draft. That said, losing Zion Williamson from the 2018 class has made Duke worse, not better. Some players you cannot replace, and not all 5*'s will pan out, but odds are that you will consistently win more games over time if you can consistently reload with the best players in the nation. We don't have the luxury of landing top 5 recruiting classes YoY (have we ever landed top 5, even top 10?) so that makes every recruiting class that much more important to us compared to a Duke or Kentucky.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.