Our offense is currently ranked #2 on Kenpom, 26 spots above Nebraska. Our offense is really good. Defense is not so good.
Pregame: Illinois vs Missouri, Monday, December 22nd, 7:00pm CT, FS1
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I’m trying my best to keep this defense in perspective considering the personnel we have, but it’s becoming very evident that over the course of even individual games, we have at best stayed about the same on that end of the ball.
Truly frustrating considering the past couple seasons. I’m not asking for a top 15 defense, but somewhere in the 20-30 range feels obtainable.
Truly frustrating considering the past couple seasons. I’m not asking for a top 15 defense, but somewhere in the 20-30 range feels obtainable.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
And I think what is REALLY fueling a lot of the alleged "overreactions" is that we are a top 30ish defense away from being an actually elite team that can compete for a an actually elite seed and therefore a potentially elite NCAA Tournament result. Just 1-2 fewer defensive lapses per game potentially gives us wins over Alabama and Nebraska, and we are all talking about a potential #1 seed.
And this is probably where some will disagree, but we arguably DO have the personnel for a top 30 defense. Again, we don't have the personnel for an elite defense, but we don't need one ... we have an elite offense! Just some better (and more importantly CONSISTENT) defensive fundamentals can make a world of difference for these guys, given how we can score. And it is not some insurmountable problem to fix, at least IMO. The good news is we aren't just praying for players we won't get ... we're looking to clean up mistakes and become more cohesive as a unit. There is still time, and I will not give up hope that we can at least get to that "consistently decent defense" threshold and really make this a memorable season!
And this is exactly where I tend to disagree with folks who claim the roster is "too offense reliant." Because we have the personnel to be a top 30 defense - which is all we truly need. The problem lies in execution, communication, and/or scheme.
Curbelo Fanboy
BERTBALL IS LIFE
Crazy how it was a sell out every year from 99 to 07. Although the 05 game was not a full house on the Mizzou side. There was a snowstorm that day that St Louis "just missed". Large parts of MO & southern IL got whacked pretty hard & there were noticable empties on the Mizzou end. No doubt the tickets were sold. I sat next to a couple kids that night who drove up from Carbondale for the game. Due to the weather it took them 3 plus hours. At game's end I asked where they were staying & they said they were driving straight back. I half joking/half serious said to them "I'll pray for you". Some serious fan dedication on display on their part.While there are still seats available on the main tickets website, this could potentially be the first Braggin' Rights sellout in quite some time. We'll probably come up just short, but it should still be a huge crowd. For reference, the arena's capacity is "nearly 22,000" according to my web searches ... not sure if it was different before renovations, though it seems rather obvious it was 22,153 for a stretch there in the early 2000s!Also including each team's rank to give some perspective for excitement for the game on either side and whatnot.
FWIW, the tickets website would indicate sales are significantly over 21,000 or so.
2024-25: 18,497 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2023-24: 18,485 for #13 Illinois vs. Missouri
2022-23: 18,452 for #16 Illinois vs. Missouri
2021-22*: 14,953 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2020-21: N/A (played in Columbia with no fans due to COVID)
2019-20: 15,259 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2018-19: 16,397 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2017-18**: 21,289 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2016-17: 12,409 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2015-16: 14,456 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2014-15: 20,079 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2013-14: 21,987 for Illinois vs. #23 Missouri
2012-13: 21,933 for #10 Illinois vs. #12 Missouri
2011-12: 22,087 for #25 Illinois vs. #10 Missouri
2010-11: 21,906 for #21 Illinois vs. #9 Missouri
2009-10: 20,497 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2008-09: 19,586 for Illinois vs. #25 Missouri
2007-08: 21,941 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2006-07: 22,153 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2005-06: 22,153 for #6 Illinois vs. Missouri
2004-05: 22,153 for #1 Illinois vs. Missouri
2003-04: 22,153 for #21 Illinois vs. #11 Missouri
2002-03: 22,153 for #12 Illinois vs. #11 Missouri
2001-02: 22,153 for #9 Illinois vs. #8 Missouri
2000-01: 22,089 for #5 Illinois vs. Missouri
1999-00: 22,484 for #15 Illinois vs. Missouri
* By the way, I was at the 2021-22 Braggin' Rights for my first trip to this game, and it was sort of doomed from an attendance standpoint. There was still some lingering COVID-related hesitancy from some, Mizzou would finish 12-21 that year in Cuonzo's fifth and final season AND it was literally during Missouri's bowl game, lmao. Still, we had an absolute blast ... I would say the Illini side was still 80%+ full.
** If anyone is wondering why there was a seemingly random spike here, this was Brad's first year and it was right after all of the decommitments from Illinois to Missouri after Groce's firing (e.g., Tilmon). So, while neither team was really good, there was extra hype around this one.
Do we though? Our bigs continue to get relentlessly attacked, and that's obviously a personnel disadvantage.
I think we have improved personnel from a year ago, but there's still lots of holes team's can exploit.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Our second year (2022-23, when Missouri whooped our !!!...) was also during some very serious weather. A nice Illini fan from Springfield sold us very good seats for a very decent price because they just couldn't make it in with the roads. We were expecting a very empty arena given the weather (they even decided last minute to not have either band travel!), and we were shocked at how many diehards wound up in their seats on both sides!
Also, I will get on my annual soapbox to complain that two things have negatively affected the Braggin' Rights crowd environment, IMO.
(1) The renovations seem to have created more "dead space" that makes the stands look WAY less packed in together. Part of it is the suites, but the setup behind both baskets seems to be SO much worse than before...
(2) Fans of both teams but especially Missouri have stopped wearing their team colors in as uniform of a way as years past. For a while there, it really looked like a true orange/gold split (see second photo), and it was a sight to behold! Now, I feel like there is more navy/white/gray on the Illini side and SO much less gold on the Mizzou side.
Consider this photo from what I believe is the 2019-20 game...
... and compare it to this one from the 2012-13 game.
Is part of it that the second photo is from a more hyped game with a bigger crowd? Sure. But it seems obvious, too, that Mizzou fans have totally ditched wearing gold (can't blame them, it looks puke colored!) and there is SO much more lame wasted space behind both baskets. I'm sure it's a combination of switching all of the blue railings to gray, having a more washed out court, etc., but the first photo looks so much more lifeless by comparison.
Wonder if the Illini will once again fail to show emotion and sleep walk through the BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR! I think Mizzou whips our butts
Curbelo Fanboy
BERTBALL IS LIFE
I was at that 2022 game also. At least til early in the 2nd half when we bailed. My boys & I made the last minute decision to drive down from Springfield given the iffy weather. We had tix in hand & decided to risk it. Trip went fine, game sucked. That night was where my severe dislike of Matthew Mayer was birthed.Our second year (2022-23, when Missouri whooped our !!!...) was also during some very serious weather. A nice Illini fan from Springfield sold us very good seats for a very decent price because they just couldn't make it in with the roads. We were expecting a very empty arena given the weather (they even decided last minute to not have either band travel!), and we were shocked at how many diehards wound up in their seats on both sides!
Also, I will get on my annual soapbox to complain that two things have negatively affected the Braggin' Rights crowd environment, IMO.
(1) The renovations seem to have created more "dead space" that makes the stands look WAY less packed in together. Part of it is the suites, but the setup behind both baskets seems to be SO much worse than before...
(2) Fans of both teams but especially Missouri have stopped wearing their team colors in as uniform of a way as years past. For a while there, it really looked like a true orange/gold split (see second photo), and it was a sight to behold! Now, I feel like there is more navy/white/gray on the Illini side and SO much less gold on the Mizzou side.
Consider this photo from what I believe is the 2019-20 game...
... and compare it to this one from the 2012-13 game.
Is part of it that the second photo is from a more hyped game with a bigger crowd? Sure. But it seems obvious, too, that Mizzou fans have totally ditched wearing gold (can't blame them, it looks puke colored!) and there is SO much more lame wasted space behind both baskets. I'm sure it's a combination of switching all of the blue railings to gray, having a more washed out court, etc., but the first photo looks so much more lifeless by comparison.
On a side note, our seats were in the nosebleeds. During the pregame one of my sons & I were walking around & noticed those standing areas behind each hoop that appeared to be unmonitored. We just stood there & waiting for someone to shoo us away. No one ever did & we then texted my other son to come join us so we stood behind the basket 20 rows up vs sitting 1 row from top of the building.
sacraig
- The desert
Losing to Mizzou, especially when they aren't very good, is a good way to sour a whole season for me.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
On that point about dead space behind the basket, I found a good before and after comparison at similar angles ... W-H-Y did they start having seats be like this?? It's so much lamer!
They used to have actual temporary stands that extended down to the court, and now they just leave that dead space from the hockey rink and throw out some folding chairs that don't even fill the space??
They used to have actual temporary stands that extended down to the court, and now they just leave that dead space from the hockey rink and throw out some folding chairs that don't even fill the space??
We were top 40 last year. If we have "improved personnel from a year ago," then top 30 should be a reasonable expectation.
Using Evanmiya's stats for 24-25 Illini vs 25-26 Illini, here's how things shake out:
Improved: Jake Davis, Kylan
Declined: Ben, Tomi
Players Changed: Z is better than Morez, Wagler is worse than KJ, Mirk is worse than Tre White, Andrej is worse than Will Riley
Again, this is using those players' last year stats for last year's team, so for example if Morez, Tre, or DGL's defense changed this year that is not reflected from this simple analysis. For whatever it's worth, going into this year, I expected our defense to get worse. I stated repeatedly that Ty was key to our defense and missing him would kill us on that end.
Defense takes a lot of practice together. I don't think we are a cohesive defensive unit yet, especially since we are playing about 9 deep at this point (being deep has its advantages, but reducing the rotation would help with defensive cohesiveness). A ranking of 30th by year end may be achievable - but I also think that B1G play and the tough non-conference schedule is going to keep us from improving our numbers to much better than that.
90-89 in OT win (
) for Illini
) for Illini
Did anyone else instantly scroll down to start at 99-00? I knew where the trend was going to go in 2015, just wanted to bask in the 00's glorious numbers firstWhile there are still seats available on the main tickets website, this could potentially be the first Braggin' Rights sellout in quite some time. We'll probably come up just short, but it should still be a huge crowd. For reference, the arena's capacity is "nearly 22,000" according to my web searches ... not sure if it was different before renovations, though it seems rather obvious it was 22,153 for a stretch there in the early 2000s!
FWIW, the tickets website would indicate sales are significantly over 21,000 or so.
2024-25: 18,497 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2023-24: 18,485 for #13 Illinois vs. Missouri
2022-23: 18,452 for #16 Illinois vs. Missouri
2021-22*: 14,953 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2020-21: N/A (played in Columbia with no fans due to COVID)
2019-20: 15,259 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2018-19: 16,397 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2017-18**: 21,289 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2016-17: 12,409 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2015-16: 14,456 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2014-15: 20,079 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2013-14: 21,987 for Illinois vs. #23 Missouri
2012-13: 21,933 for #10 Illinois vs. #12 Missouri
2011-12: 22,087 for #25 Illinois vs. #10 Missouri
2010-11: 21,906 for #21 Illinois vs. #9 Missouri
2009-10: 20,497 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2008-09: 19,586 for Illinois vs. #25 Missouri
2007-08: 21,941 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2006-07: 22,153 for Illinois vs. Missouri
2005-06: 22,153 for #6 Illinois vs. Missouri
2004-05: 22,153 for #1 Illinois vs. Missouri
2003-04: 22,153 for #21 Illinois vs. #11 Missouri
2002-03: 22,153 for #12 Illinois vs. #11 Missouri
2001-02: 22,153 for #9 Illinois vs. #8 Missouri
2000-01: 22,089 for #5 Illinois vs. Missouri
1999-00: 22,484 for #15 Illinois vs. Missouri
* By the way, I was at the 2021-22 Braggin' Rights for my first trip to this game, and it was sort of doomed from an attendance standpoint. There was still some lingering COVID-related hesitancy from some, Mizzou would finish 12-21 that year in Cuonzo's fifth and final season AND it was literally during Missouri's bowl game, lmao. Still, we had an absolute blast ... I would say the Illini side was still 80%+ full.
** If anyone is wondering why there was a seemingly random spike here, this was Brad's first year and it was right after all of the decommitments from Illinois to Missouri after Groce's firing (e.g., Tilmon). So, while neither team was really good, there was extra hype around this one.
It's certainly true...we were like 80th in defensive efficiency via KENPOM during the E8 run and that could have been a F4 team in 2/4 brackets IMO.
Very comparable offensive rating this year to that team.
Certainly seems crazy considering you had a handful of good/serviceable defenders that year and this year you have Kylan and occasionally Andrej as your + defenders.
I’m just happy it’s reflected Morez was not good on defense last year. For some reason, most fans are the under the impression he was a Dennis Rodman and ben Wallace reincarnation last year.
Tired take: I miss Morez!
Wired take: I miss Tre white a lot more
We missed him last year when he had a bad case of the benchies for arguing with Tyler.
I believe the 2022 game it was like -30 with the wind chill and me and my buddies walked from the pregame bar to the game. It was a little chilly.
Also, unfortunately, I have had to go with primarily Mizzou fans for the past several years, and at the 2022 game when Mizzou was destroying us, they had the best time ever and I had to sit there and take. But the next year, when we destroyed Mizzou (by a larger margin), my friends were complaining and were trying to leave by half. I refused. Said that I sat through the whole game last year, I'm making them do the same!
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