Pregame: Illinois vs Washington, Thursday, January 29th, 8:00pm CT, FS1

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#127      
ugottabjoshinme
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Nah man... he scored the first 14 points of the game. At one point the team had 24, he had 19. The team had 39 at half he had 24.

I agree the end was a masterclass by all involved. The start was ALL Keaton.

I doubt this is even remotely a close game WITHOUT him.
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Right, and if Purdue didn't have their best player, it wouldn't be a game either.
 
#129      
pruman91
skyIdub said:
Why in the name of holy f'ing plastic pool toys would anyone feel the need to argue or debate about our performance after one of the top 5 wins in this programs history, that included the single greatest individual game performance in this programs history by a f'ing freshman no less ,WHICHOHBYTHEWAYWASOURNINTHSTRAIGHTWIN?

Save it up for a performance that deserves complaining. Ffs.

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#130      
From the cheap seats
Second place is 1st loser said:
However, nothing that the rest of the roster did assisted in Wagler's explosion. He wasn't set up and his shots were not a byproduct of well run offense. The ball stuck, which is has a habit of doing with our crew sometimes, but for this one game, it would end up in his hands and he was flame throwing.
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If the Illini did not have capable shooters from 3 at every position, Purdue would have done what they tried to do at the end— double Wagler when he had the ball. I would say the proven abilities of his teammates had everything to do with Purdue having to pick its poison when it came to Wagler.
It’s what the Illini offense forces teams to do. Wagler won’t go 9-for-11 from 3 very often, but he has been hitting deep step-back 3s regularly (43% on the year from 3).
If they had started doubling him sooner, they may have limited him to his average of about 20…but Jake, Mirk and Tomi might have rained 3s on them. Heck, when Minny tried zone Andrej hit 4 of his first 5 3s.
 
#131      
Fighter of the Nightman
PleaseMakeABowlGame said:
Did you read my next post:

There’s absolutely no reason to act like it was fluky luck. He made those plays. Will it happen again? Probably not. But it was to his ability to put together a game like that.

My response was to a comment claiming what he did was “because of what the rest of the team did.” IMO he put the team on his back, as opposed to his performance being dependent on someone else (at least in the first half).
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Fair enough, I was posting from my phone and was kind of just using your post to respond to the general idea. 🤝
 
#133      
Lee
AirTran said:
Games are won in three areas - (1) Rebounding, (2) Rebounding and (3) Defense.

Teams win games, not individuals. We wouldn't win alot of games without Wagler and I am hoping we don't lose too many without Bam. Yes Wagler's shooting was an outsized comparison for one game for anyone in college basketball. Where was Purdue's defense? Why didn't they shut him down. What was interesting for me was listening to both coaches after the game. Purdue decided not to double Wagler from the start they also decided to defend the lane and Matt Painter explained that in great detail.

Braden Smith is an all American and they run staggered sets for him so he can curl off the dribble. You have be very talented to do that. But he can. Same deal. Brad was clear, Illinois decided not to double him. Which is strange, because the few times they did double Smith it worked. Nonetheless - notwithstanding KWs outsized game we don't win if we aren't as dominant on the glass as we were. Both coaches made that point in their after game pressers.

Wagler didn't have any rebounds.
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Oh No Omg GIF by brandon wells
 
#134      
RAM 77
Sedino said:
I never have and never will understand this thought process of "without *insert player* they would have lost." Okay, without Jordan the Bulls still have 0 championships. Without Lebron, Cleveland doesn't come back from down 1-3. Why does it matter? The Bulls DID have Jordan, Cleveland DID have James, and against Purdue we DID have Wagler.

As for the rest of the roster doing nothing, lol. Multiple of his 3s came from offensive rebounds made by his teammates, he had none. As for the ball sticking, when Purdue's entire gameplan was to switch slow 6'11 and 6'10 guys onto our 6'6' athletic combo guard, yeah I want the ball in his hands every single time taking that 1 on 1. That is smart basketball and good offense.

"Give him his due" Give me a break, this is being heralded as one of, if not the greatest Illini performance of all time. He won every single award possible this week. No one is taking anything away from him, but you are taking away from his teammates who out rebounded and out hustled Purdue the entire game.
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To Sedino's point, the Warriors would gotten smoked without Wilt's 100 points!

Wilt Chamberlain set the single-game scoring record in the National Basketball Association (NBA) by scoring 100 points for the Philadelphia Warriors in a 169–147 win over the New York Knicks on March 2, 1962
 
#137      
illini0440
AirTran said:
Games are won in three areas - (1) Rebounding, (2) Rebounding and (3) Defense.

Teams win games, not individuals. We wouldn't win alot of games without Wagler and I am hoping we don't lose too many without Bam. Yes Wagler's shooting was an outsized comparison for one game for anyone in college basketball. Where was Purdue's defense? Why didn't they shut him down. What was interesting for me was listening to both coaches after the game. Purdue decided not to double Wagler from the start they also decided to defend the lane and Matt Painter explained that in great detail.

Braden Smith is an all American and they run staggered sets for him so he can curl off the dribble. You have be very talented to do that. But he can. Same deal. Brad was clear, Illinois decided not to double him. Which is strange, because the few times they did double Smith it worked. Nonetheless - notwithstanding KWs outsized game we don't win if we aren't as dominant on the glass as we were. Both coaches made that point in their after game pressers.

Wagler didn't have any rebounds.
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I can tel you the guy who preaches rebounding until he is blue in the face didn't give 2 :poop: that Keaton didn't have a rebound.
 
#139      
Piotyr
Illinois' offensive rebounding strategy is everyone that isn't the shooter crashes the boards. When Keaton is taking half the shots, turns out he gets fewer OREB opportunities. On other shots, he was crashing the boards but other Illini were getting the rebounds, which is okay. AS, Tomi, Ben, Mirk, and Jake had them on lockdown.

Everyone arguing that the Illini's performance wasn't sustainable should take a glance at Purdue's offensive performance, where they shot the lights out from mid-range and landed at 57% on the day. If that doesn't happen, the game isn't close.

That said, this Washington game is giving me USC last year vibes, just in terms of this is a mostly new team they're playing, they're not good but not terrible, and it's coming off such a high point, got to find a way to keep the energy and effort up for this one and not look ahead to the weekend.
 
#140      
Germanboxers
AirTran said:
Not this team. Their "trap game" was Nebraska at home. As well as KW played on Saturday Matt Painter made it clear in his postgame. It was the Illini rebounding and mindset that made the difference. Painter specifically noted that when Purdue decided to double Keaton and rotate at the end of the game that is when Tomi, Mirk and Jake all came up huge in the clutch. What an impressive performance by the entire team. When this team plays the defense its capable of, they are better than both the '89 and '05 teams. The issue is they don't always play their best D and with Bam out, stopping players like Braden Smith is really difficult.
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The bolded is, shall we say, a bold statement and not supported by the eye test. If you watched the 89 team, they were a force that few college teams could match. They could "turn it on" on either end of the court in a moment because of their individual and collective grit, coupled with supreme athleticism and connected team play. The 05 team had intense grit as well, played together at an extraordinary level on both sides of the court. Advanced metrics are very useful, but start to break down when comparing teams across seasons and generations.

This year's Illini team has great promise, outside shooting at every position, length and good BB IQ for the most part. But when the shots are not falling, can/will they "will" out a win through extreme grit and team-wide extreme focus on stopping the opponent? I hope they develop this, but they haven't shown this yet.
 
#141      
AirTran
Germanboxers said:
The bolded is, shall we say, a bold statement and not supported by the eye test. If you watched the 89 team, they were a force that few college teams could match. They could "turn it on" on either end of the court in a moment because of their individual and collective grit, coupled with supreme athleticism and connected team play. The 05 team had intense grit as well, played together at an extraordinary level on both sides of the court. Advanced metrics are very useful, but start to break down when comparing teams across seasons and generations.

This year's Illini team has great promise, outside shooting at every position, length and good BB IQ for the most part. But when the shots are not falling, can/will they "will" out a win through extreme grit and team-wide extreme focus on stopping the opponent? I hope they develop this, but they haven't shown this yet.
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As for the "eye test" you need to have your eyes checked.

I can proudly say that I have seen every Illini basketball game that has been televised on cable/sattelite since they started. When I lived in the Chicago area I attended 6-10 games per year. My first Illini game was Jan 29, 1967 at Chicago Stadium.

I went to 6 games in the '89 season and more than that in 2005. I have been able to meet a couple members of the '89 team and several players from '07 - '12.

So let's be clear, the '89 team only had 7 players. Same with the 2005 team. 1989 team was better than the '05 team, but that's only because college basketball overall was better in '89. The '89 group had speed, athleticism and tenacity. They could also shoot 3s when they had to and they shot them better than the '05 team and better than the 2026 team. The '89 team had the best defense we have ever had.

But the '89 team did not have depth, they didn't rebound as well as this team, they didn't shoot foul shots as well as this team and they turned the ball over far more than the 2025 and 2005 team. One other ENORMOUS Difference between the 2025 team and the other 2. Every one of the players we put on the floor can shoot 3 point shots and therefore have to be guarded. That completely changes what this team can do offensively on each possession.

BTW those are facts and my eyes are fine. This team can play inside and out and completely change their offensive set depending on the match ups they get. Neither the '05 or the '89 team could do that and that is why they lost the games they lost.

When this team has Kylan Boswell on the floor and uses 8 - 9 players, they are at times the best team Illinois has ever had. They can play lock - down defense with Boswell, Stojakovic, Mirkovic able to play serious MTM and the Ivisic bothers both able to block shots. The difference here is that the 2026 team doesn't play lock down defense for 40 minutes. That's a mystery to me.
 
#142      
jamie13197
Greatest team in Illini in history 89 flying Illini. If Coach Henson could have fought off his practice of not playing technically freshman. MARCUS Liberty cough, cough. Would have been huge when Hamilton busted his ankle all up! 2005 2nd absolutely. This team I am loving. Simply nowhere near athletic as either of those 2 teams. Man Keaton would have fit right in. But Coach Henson would have never played him, 🤣.
 
#143      
Retro62
AirTran said:
Not this team. Their "trap game" was Nebraska at home. As well as KW played on Saturday Matt Painter made it clear in his postgame. It was the Illini rebounding and mindset that made the difference. Painter specifically noted that when Purdue decided to double Keaton and rotate at the end of the game that is when Tomi, Mirk and Jake all came up huge in the clutch. What an impressive performance by the entire team. When this team plays the defense its capable of, they are better than both the '89 and '05 teams. The issue is they don't always play their best D and with Bam out, stopping players like Braden Smith is really difficult.
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I agree with most of this, but better than ‘89? I don’t know about that. That was the greatest Illinois team I’ve ever seen and should have won the title. However, I do think this team is capable of greatness when they play as you suggest.

Oh, and beat Washington.
 
#144      
Second place is 1st loser
Sedino said:
I never have and never will understand this thought process of "without *insert player* they would have lost." Okay, without Jordan the Bulls still have 0 championships. Without Lebron, Cleveland doesn't come back from down 1-3. Why does it matter? The Bulls DID have Jordan, Cleveland DID have James, and against Purdue we DID have Wagler.

As for the rest of the roster doing nothing, lol. Multiple of his 3s came from offensive rebounds made by his teammates, he had none. As for the ball sticking, when Purdue's entire gameplan was to switch slow 6'11 and 6'10 guys onto our 6'6' athletic combo guard, yeah I want the ball in his hands every single time taking that 1 on 1. That is smart basketball and good offense.

"Give him his due" Give me a break, this is being heralded as one of, if not the greatest Illini performance of all time. He won every single award possible this week. No one is taking anything away from him, but you are taking away from his teammates who out rebounded and out hustled Purdue the entire game.
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You have very valid points, but that said, where I disagree is that his teammates set him up. Did they keep possessions alive? Absolutely! Did it lead to second and sometimes third chances? Absolutely!! I will not, for one second dismiss that effort.

The point that the poster was making to the board(and you to an extent) is that his teammates were setting him. That's just not true. As a roster, we had 10 assists. That's all. Nobody really got set up through the scope of the offense or that number would have been significantly higher. That's just a fact.

When I said give him his due, I didn't mean not being noticed nationally because he was all over the news and in no way, shape or form should he have had to share that POW honor. That's ridiculous.

What I am saying is that he carried this team and he needs to be fully recognized for that. That can't be painted as his performance was a correlation of great offense. That would be blatantly false. That was Jordan like s**t that he pulled off. He was making shots despite the offense being stagnant(at times). The majority of his makes came with the shot clock running down, step backs, him pulling the trigger because he was on another planet.

I'd put that game in Steph Curry land. When Curry is on a heater, nobody EVER puts those insanely good shooting nights on Draymond Green because he kept a possession alive. No, Curry just has God like nights.

My final thought and then I'm going to drop it. My commentary shouldn't be taken as a bad thing. It should be taken as the fact that we have a player on our roster that is capable of doing something like this and if you want to get to a Final Four.....this sure as hell helps. I am not disparaging anyone else on our roster, their efforts, etc. Jake Davis said it best. We just gave it to the guy because he would eff'ing miss. That's not minimizing Davis' huge shots at the end. We needed them. Same with Tomi. We needed those shots. That said, we're not in position for those shots to mean anything without a night for the ages of one guy that carried a team for a night. There's nothing negative about that.
 
#146      
Second place is 1st loser
Check our my post #131. My thumb is numb for typing it. I'm not trying to take anything away from the rest of our roster. I'm trying to highlight the fact that it was probably the greatest night that the program has EVER seen from a one individual. I've never seen anything like it at the college level. I was lucky enough to see Jordan's entire career and nights where he'd hang up 60 didn't mean that Kerr, Kikoc, Rodman, Pippsn, etc had bad games. It meant that without MJ, those were losses. Go back to his group with Paxson, Cartwright, Grant, Pippen, etc....those were losses.

I would never take away from John Paxson hitting the game winner vs Phoenix to win their third championship. All five guys touched the ball on that shot. It was beautiful. That said, besides that shot, Jordan was the only one who scored in the fourth quarter. If he didn't do that, the shot never happens.
So, I'm not disparaging anyone else on our roster. My posts aren't bad things. What I am saying is that Keaton's night has to be put on that mantle and be savored and remembered as such.

Tomi, Mirk, Jake and Tomi again.....those don't mean anything without Keaton. Those were our John Paxson's, per se.
 
#147      
Retro62
Imagine people debating things on a fan message board.
 
#148      
jamie13197
Nah, it's just nice to think of great things in todays world. ☺️ We will be fine against Washington. I have a strong feeling Keaton is not Andre. He will let game come to him as he has done all year. He is a special 18 year old who shoot 45% from 28ft.. 😃
 
#149      
stlrunner
skyIdub said:
Why in the name of holy f'ing plastic pool toys would anyone feel the need to argue or debate about our performance after one of the top 5 wins in this programs history, that included the single greatest individual game performance in this programs history by a f'ing freshman no less ,WHICHOHBYTHEWAYWASOURNINTHSTRAIGHTWIN?

Save it up for a performance that deserves complaining. Ffs.

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When we're on a 9 game winning streak, and there isn't much to complain about, Loyalty just has to get creative.
 
#150      
ptgrd23
1989
Guards - Bardo (2nd round 41st pick) , Gill (5th overall pick) , Smith (undrafted),
Forwards - Battle (27th overall pick), Anderson (11th overall pick), Liberty (2nd round 42nd overall) ,
Center - Hamilton (undrafted).

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Our press with KB at point was crazy. Fantastic defenders. All from Illinois!
 
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