Pregame: Illinois vs Xavier, Wednesday, November 21st, 8:00pm CT, ESPNU
- Status
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
It's not, though. And if we have another season where we win like 12 games and everyone chafes under Underwood's coaching style, we're going to have a bunch of newcomers again and the cycle will never stop. We have to start winning. Make the tournament? No, probably not. But there needs to be forward momentum in terms of actual results this season and that should be everyone's expectation.
That's fine but expecting these epic performances and wins against top 25 teams in the first 5 games of the year is unrealistic. As long as we're competitive in the B1G in some respects we have improvement we are expecting. It's obvious by the predictions thread, just like last years, that some people think a miracle is going to happen here somehow.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
And there has been a lot of turnover, but when we're talking about a game in which four returnees, all of which saw heavy action last year under the same staff playing the same system, played 17, 21, 26, and 27 minutes, it really isn't year 1 at all in the "hey man we're just throwing some stuff in the air and seeing what sticks" sense.
The guys that stuck are half of our rotation. A guy that stuck is our star player.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Someone corral those goalposts.
We've choked away a lead at home against a bad, freshman-laden Georgetown team and been humiliated by a recruit we chose to jettison on an Iowa State team missing four of their best guys off a team that went 13-18 last year.
Would you gladly accept those two outcomes in exchange for Trent hitting the game winner against Gonzaga? Probably. But we didn't get that, so instead we're stuck reeling at 1-3.
All that Gonzaga game reveals, at this point, is how much we've under-performed elsewhere.
Xavier is not very good either, they are in a real year 1, and we're desperate (or should be). We need to win this game tonight.
What exactly are the teams? We have played Gonzaga, but we came up empty against both Georgetown (at home) and Iowa State where we got beat thoroughly with their team having critical players missing (injuries/suspensions). Neither of those are top 25 teams, not at their current state.
During the Groce entire era we were pretty much an NIT team and we all thought that was not enough and we decided to make a coaching change with the expectation of consistent NCAA tournament appearances (at least). Now it seems that we will just celebrate wildly for reaching that previous regime level (NIT). I agree that expectations of NCAA are unlrealistic (and have said so multiple times) given the roster, but we set those expectations and roster, that is something that the coaching staff controls. At the same time, it is not that looking into the future seems extremely promising because of significant inroads in recruiting, that aspect is not currently going very well either. So expectations will not drastically change for no reason.
It seems to me that we are constantly saying "maybe next year" or "it will happen in the future" as aspirational statements more than factually justifiable.
Somehow I still believe that this team can make the tournament but they HAVE to win this 3 game stretch of Xavier, MSVT, and Notre Dame to give me any hope. Xavier is not going to make the tournament. If I were them I would be talking about how we are not going to make the tournament. We have to win this to show signs of life for the brutal schedule that lies ahead.
Yup, we're in the great unknown at the moment. It's perfectly reasonably to excuse some of our woes. It's also reasonable to project a young team getting better. However, if this team isn't noticeably better by the end of the season, it becomes much harder to project BU success, especially after this Spring's recruiting. Mind you, I think that's as much a program issue as a staff issue, but the results are what they are.
We've had a brutal 10 years as fans. Need some hope. Need to see guys finish instead of come out of the gate fast only to falter.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
You'll have to point me to my wild expectations about epic performances, because those are news to me. I look at the schedule and am hard-pressed to find more than 16 wins.
What are you seeing right now that leads you to believe we will be competitive in the B1G? Because you know what happens in conference play, right? We get scouted relentlessly and teams are going to focus on Trent until we show that we've got other ways to beat them on offense.
KenPom currently projects a 10-game conference losing streak, and I don't have a rational rebuttal to that. We are giving up easy shots and fouling at a rate that is crippling and is undoing every conceivable advantage we gain by forcing turnovers (and in fact, makes it worse because we're thin - would you trade 5 forced TOs for Giorgi being able to stay on the floor?* I certainly would). Just because it's November doesn't mean the rest of the season is some unknowable mystery. If nothing changes from what we're currently doing, we're going to lose a lot of games.
*Separately from the concerns I outline in this post, I really enjoy that I am typing this statement. Join me in the Church of Bezhanishvili, won't you?
I agree it is not year 1, but it seemed like last year Illinois never made it out of the basics in running an offense or defense. Trent hero ball and Black was our offense. Black is gone and we still have Trent hero ball. They all make the same stupid mistakes over and over again on offense and defense. I cannot tell if the coaching stinks or the players are struggling. The players seem lost on defense at times and over correct and no one seems comfortable running the offense. I know I do not quite understand this offense we are running, but I do know we are not running it well. Anybody can watch a game and see that. We barely make it through one rotation at times and settle for an off balance layup through 2-3 defenders. So who should coach play, a freshman who is still learning the basics or the upperclassmen who should know the basics and probably do, but are still stinking it up on the court for some reason or another. I feel like the struggles will continue if Illinois does not get out of the basics. This schedule, the turnover, and the freshman do not help, but they need to stop playing like year 1.
The only bright spot I see is Giorgi so far. How a freshman can look more comfortable in the offense from day 1, than the rest of the team might say something.
I agree on your entire post and on the bolded I posted the same after the game. Prohm and ISU had really done their homework. The game started and it was obvious that Trent's defender was always playing tighter even on the weak side (non-ball side). I think Trent is fantastic but if we just depend on his heroics every game, we will likely be disappointed. Not because he is not good, or lack of effort. Just that he is not exactly a secret anymore.
Nichols is already playing out of position, but Griffin is not even close of what skills we need on the frontcourt.
I agree, but on the other hand he is an upperclassman who could for all intents and purposes put up big numbers, besides maybe on the defensive side if he could get over whatever he needs to get over and gain some confidence. It is a tough call for a coach when a player cannot get into a rhythm to bench him.
Last edited:
I don’t think we can do that until Adonis can play more than 2 minutes at a time without running out of breath or committing a foul per minute.
Giorgi has been significantly better than i expected. However idk if moving him to 4 out helps or hurts us because he’s so good at the high post. Also if he ends up with a more athletic 4 guarding him out there idk if we can win that matchup like he’s winning in the high post right now vs 5s.
I hate to tell you this, but the facts actually were that Underwood was not for making the adjustments mentioned. Two of assistant coaches, Mike Boynton being one of them, pleaded with Underwood for quite a while to sink defenders back and not run the half court press because so many teams were getting layups against OSU.
Playing Adonis without help/support on the inside puts even more pressure on him that could be counterproductive on both getting tired and picking up fouls. He has always picked up fouls in his career, that is who he is. IMO it is obvious that it would be difficult for him to be the single inside focus, even as he continues to rehab. He needs more support on the inside to be successful. Personally, I think that is the same with Giorgi, he starts fast (e.g., Gonzaga) but kind of gets overwhelmed trying to do too much at times because of lack of support.
i think we all need to calm down.
we have 27 games yet to be played.
we start 2 freshman.
we were picked to finish 13th in conference.
we struggled to hit open shots yesterday to keep us in the game, but the first half was a positive.
we had a complete roster overhaul, and 3 of our 4 games have been against high-major competition+Gonzaga.
We have played with great effort and hustle in 3.5/4 games.
Georgi, Ayo, Griffin have well exceeded expectations.
De La Rosa played better in game 2 than he did in game 1 back, and is a 7 footer coming back from a torn ACL.
Kipper has been an absolute non-factor but i believe he will step up.
Our lone senior AJ has played better against power-5 foes in these 3 games than he did all big ten play last year, if Kipper can get going and just be okay will change a lot.
as bad as it sounds, we are still at least a year away, and playing this tough schedule will wear a team out, especially when we are so young, play like we do, and aren’t that deep in the front court.
I think we all need to relax. We have played of expectations or better than expected in all of our games besides 1 half, where Iowa St couldn’t miss, and we just flat out looked tired.
we have 27 games yet to be played.
we start 2 freshman.
we were picked to finish 13th in conference.
we struggled to hit open shots yesterday to keep us in the game, but the first half was a positive.
we had a complete roster overhaul, and 3 of our 4 games have been against high-major competition+Gonzaga.
We have played with great effort and hustle in 3.5/4 games.
Georgi, Ayo, Griffin have well exceeded expectations.
De La Rosa played better in game 2 than he did in game 1 back, and is a 7 footer coming back from a torn ACL.
Kipper has been an absolute non-factor but i believe he will step up.
Our lone senior AJ has played better against power-5 foes in these 3 games than he did all big ten play last year, if Kipper can get going and just be okay will change a lot.
as bad as it sounds, we are still at least a year away, and playing this tough schedule will wear a team out, especially when we are so young, play like we do, and aren’t that deep in the front court.
I think we all need to relax. We have played of expectations or better than expected in all of our games besides 1 half, where Iowa St couldn’t miss, and we just flat out looked tired.
There was a misconception in the off-season that we have an "athletic" team. We don't have a team that could be classified as athletic as a characteristic given P6 basketball standards.
That is our own fault, it is not that these expectations are just random exogenous factors.
If there is another mass exodus, I would think Underwood would be close behind them.
I have noticed that that alcohol helps one make it through both Illinois football and basketball games in recent years.
1. We are playing a tougher than usual schedule, but the "usual" was misleading because it was a clear deterioration of what we should have been playing.
2. Given that Kipper already had to sit out a year coming in from Tulane, he is not going anywhere.
3. Ayo is a good player, with good size (needs strength) but he is IMO nowhere near of being considered a possible one-and-done, unless making a decision based on other factors (rather than what NBA team would think of him). Without better athleticism, he needs to improve his PG skills (become a floor general) and his shooting,
- Status