Purdue 24, Illinois 17 Postgame

#251      
BoiseBaller
Jeffcobrad said:
I’m afraid the 3 win / 4 win seasons have returned. Appreciate BB giving it a shot but this program will never be Iowa or Wisconsin unfortunately. Love the potential of the freshman class but afraid Illini won’t be able to $$ hang onto them because of the need to go get portal help. No win situation.
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I think the reality is that the program will always be what we invest into it. This holds true across the board for all schools, though you get a one off here and there were stars align despite a small budget. IU proved this to be true. They are the blueprint. Dumped a ton of money in, got the right coach and the right combination of players.

One thing that just burned into my brain from the Werner post-game podcast is when they said “you spend bottom five money in the league, you get bottom five results”.
 
#252      
Second place is 1st loser
BoiseBaller said:
I think the reality is that the program will always be what we invest into it. This holds true across the board for all schools, though you get a one off here and there were stars align despite a small budget. IU proved this to be true. They are the blueprint. Dumped a ton of money in, got the right coach and the right combination of players.

One thing that just burned into my brain from the Werner post-game podcast is when they said “you spend bottom five money in the league, you get bottom five results”.
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Nothing more needs to be said.
 
#253      
Cook
Second place is 1st loser said:
You might know this answer.....how much does a defensive line and a solid linebacker corp get paid? We don't have one Big Ten caliber player on either position grouping. Without a reasonably good defense, 6-6 really is the absolute best case scenario and that's 100% pending the offense winning a shootout. When the offense doesn't put up, at minimum , 27-30..... we're going to lose. There is no way that can be projected into a 6-6 season. Offenses can sputter. That can't be an automatic loss for us whenever it does. That's where you HAVE to be able to lean on the defense. We can't.

Now is it the evaluation, the money or both? Whoever is managing the money has to make a philosophy change and they need to build from the defense out. If I HAD to choose between a great defense or a great offense to build with our funds.... I'd go the defensive route 100 times out of 100. Defense travels, defense keeps to in games, defense getting turnovers can hand the offense points and a good, fast, physical defense can play anyone, anywhere and under any/all weather conditions.

Give me a great defense and a running game and THAT is what makes the bottom basement record 6-6. Outside of Bailey, there isn't one player on our roster that would remotely be able to play on a contending team. Not one. On offense.....we have legitimate talent. This defensive line and LB corp is the worst that I can remember in a long, long time.

I don't know where Iowa finishes in NIL spending, but that's the model to winning with marginal funds(comparably). Their QB always sucks, but they always find a solid back, a great TE, a mauling, ugly, mean Offensive line and they pair that with a dominant defense and they win. It works and it has always been what works. Control the clock, move the chains, play great D and every game goes into the 4th quarter with a chance.
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My approach would be to consistently prioritize OL and DL in $ allocation, recruiting, development, portal… build everything from the trenches out. Those are your proverbial rising tide, force multipliers that maximize whatever talent you have elsewhere across the board.
 
#255      
RabidDawgClassic
FloridaMan said:
I truly hope you are right. Josh's first order of business, IMO, is to secure more NIL funding. Full stop. I feel like the whole Gies stadium deal was super, super mismanaged from a timing perspective and just a huge misstep. Josh had to know we were falling behind on NIL, and yet still pushed through that project which the fans by and large really do not care about and know was a terrible allocation of resources.
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Good lord… how many times do people have to say it? The Gies $100 mil was not given for NIL use. That was not money that could be used to pay players. Gies would not be able to use an NIL donation as a tax write off. But a “gift” to the university for stadium renovations could be.
 
#257      
OB positive
HereSoIDontGetFined said:
I recall Luke Altmyer having a few stinker games when he first arrived here, but I don't think any of them were as bad as Houser's yesterday. He consistently overthrows receivers on deep routes.

I think this team thought it was going to be much better than it is, and the shock at the truth has jarred them a bit.
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Its inexplicable. Houser was a cool cucumber against Ohio State on their field but at home against Purdue he looked rattled from the get-go.
 
#259      
Illini in Italy
The hot takes in here after this loss are just . . . en fuego

We knew this was going to be a down year with all the losses from last years’ squad, and yet some are calling for Bret’s and even Josh’s heads . . . GMAFB . . .

Game Of Thrones Burn GIF by Feliks Tomasz Konczakowski
 
#261      
Serious Late
Our team composite talent ranking has been bottom 3 in the league every year since 2020. Flawed metric, I think Indiana might have been dead last a year ago, but when you look at those rankings year after year, you see a pattern emerge with the programs that do vs don't do well overall, mostly do so because of the talent they have.

Bret has overperformed pretty much every single year, relative to the talent he has been given. It has happened because of both development and game planning.

This year, yeah no. We do not look nearly as talented as our opponents and we certainly aren't out game planning them. When the coaching is lacking, the talent gap becomes really glaring.

It sucks, and the Purdue lose sends everyone naturally scrambling to "is it over, are we right back to where we were now?" That can't be a feeling we live through for multiple seasons and expect Bret to stick. CONSISTENCY is key to this staff's legacy.

That said, our fans are as bad as our play on the field. Like, had we all given up on the season before this game started? I enjoyed Dan's pretty epic rant about our fans last week (I think) on twitter. The in-stadium crowd is BRUTAL. Its like we are flashing a giant "quiet, the opponent's offense is working" sign on 1st and 2nd down when we are on defense. If it werent for the student section, you would think we were on offense. 3rd down the video board reminds people they are supposed to get loud when we are on Defense and it reaches a feverish "lukewarm" decibel level. Then, awkwardly, about half the people in Section 123 would stand to cheer. Most of them looking around like "is it okay. Can we stand now? Should we make some noise?" YES. YOU SHOULD BE MAKING NOISE EVERY DOWN AND STANDING OFTEN.

This is the second game I have gone to and felt awkward for making noise in the last year. A few people were looking at me funny when I was making noise early in the game. Everyone seemed to accept it as the game went on, and I would say I got it up to about a dozen people in the vicinity of me making noise by the 4th quarter on 1st and 2nd down. It was the exact same at a February basketball game I was at last season. It is expected you stay in your seat and not disrupt others around you inside the State Farm Center these days. Like we are watching a movie. 🙄

Like, this is a real crusade that needs pushed. It is awful, our fanbase needs a complete culture overhaul at events. We had ZERO homefield advantage thanks to the crowd on Saturday. If you are a season ticket holder... what are you doing? Why aren't you a part of the solution? Why aren't more season ticket holders making noise about this, so they start working to FIX it.
 
#262      
therealmiket86
Second place is 1st loser said:
You might know this answer.....how much does a defensive line and a solid linebacker corp get paid? We don't have one Big Ten caliber player on either position grouping. Without a reasonably good defense, 6-6 really is the absolute best case scenario and that's 100% pending the offense winning a shootout. When the offense doesn't put up, at minimum , 27-30..... we're going to lose. There is no way that can be projected into a 6-6 season. Offenses can sputter. That can't be an automatic loss for us whenever it does. That's where you HAVE to be able to lean on the defense. We can't.

Now is it the evaluation, the money or both? Whoever is managing the money has to make a philosophy change and they need to build from the defense out. If I HAD to choose between a great defense or a great offense to build with our funds.... I'd go the defensive route 100 times out of 100. Defense travels, defense keeps to in games, defense getting turnovers can hand the offense points and a good, fast, physical defense can play anyone, anywhere and under any/all weather conditions.

Give me a great defense and a running game and THAT is what makes the bottom basement record 6-6. Outside of Bailey, there isn't one player on our roster that would remotely be able to play on a contending team. Not one. On offense.....we have legitimate talent. This defensive line and LB corp is the worst that I can remember in a long, long time.

I don't know where Iowa finishes in NIL spending, but that's the model to winning with marginal funds(comparably). Their QB always sucks, but they always find a solid back, a great TE, a mauling, ugly, mean Offensive line and they pair that with a dominant defense and they win. It works and it has always been what works. Control the clock, move the chains, play great D and every game goes into the 4th quarter with a chance.
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What’s crazy to me is how much a few players have regressed. It also makes no sense to think we didn’t need to spend money on DT or lb. Hood can’t get on the field at WV but if he stayed he would’ve started here. The depth players we lost in the portal are much better than the FCS transfers we brought in on defense.
 
#264      
FloridaMan
RabidDawgClassic said:
Good lord… how many times do people have to say it? The Gies $100 mil was not given for NIL use. That was not money that could be used to pay players. Gies would not be able to use an NIL donation as a tax write off. But a “gift” to the university for stadium renovations could be.
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Good Lord is right! How many times do people have to point out it was a massive PR black eye for this program! Your comments are well documented and known by everyone commenting on the stadium "upgrades." Doesn't change that it's just a bad look and terrible timing given the NIL struggles we now find ourselves having. The scoreboard and naming rights do nothing to move this program forward.
 
#265      
BretMyBeachHouse
Illini in Italy said:
The hot takes in here after this loss are just . . . en fuego

We knew this was going to be a down year with all the losses from last years’ squad, and yet some are calling for Bret’s and even Josh’s heads . . . GMAFB . . .

Game Of Thrones Burn GIF by Feliks Tomasz Konczakowski
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"We?"

Go back and look at the hot takes in the prediction thread. Other than Second place and some cautionary notes from Illini0440, , the whole thread is filled with pollyannas

I've always been hoping for a bowl game to keep the momentum going. Obviously, you want more, but that seemed to be a reasonable outcome for the year.

People are falling hard now because they unreasonable hoisted themselves up so high preseason.
 
#266      
BoiseBaller
Second place is 1st loser said:
Nothing more needs to be said.
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And the more I chew on this, the more disappointed I become. Because it just smacks of Ron Guenther. When we hired JW, I was very skeptical because I knew he cut his teeth under Ron. But over time, he showed a willingness to invest into programs so I let that go.

But this…I just don’t know. It’s making my PTSD kick in. I thought we were past all this. Guess not.

We were either naive and thought other schools were going to follow some imaginary NIL cap, or we just consciously decided to spend at a fraction of the big boys. Not sure which is worse lol.

You can’t tell me we don’t have big donors like IU and others willing to pony up. I can’t imagine Larry Gies wants his name all over a stadium where a team gets smacked around every Saturday.
 
#267      
Se Il Illini
Cook said:
My approach would be to consistently prioritize OL and DL in $ allocation, recruiting, development, portal… build everything from the trenches out. Those are your proverbial rising tide, force multipliers that maximize whatever talent you have elsewhere across the board.
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The Jim Finks recipe.
 
#268      
rdk573
Illini in Italy said:
The hot takes in here after this loss are just . . . en fuego

We knew this was going to be a down year with all the losses from last years’ squad, and yet some are calling for Bret’s and even Josh’s heads . . . GMAFB . . .

Game Of Thrones Burn GIF by Feliks Tomasz Konczakowski
Click to expand...

Huh???? Worthy criticism of the coach or Josh is not calling for them to be fired...And any objective observer has to admit that the Coach has done a poor job of talent evaluation and allocation of NIL resources this year, especially on the defensive side of the ball...That criticism is justified and is not calling for his head..
 
#269      
BretMyBeachHouse
BoiseBaller said:
We were either naive and thought other schools were going to follow some imaginary NIL cap, or we just consciously decided to spend at a fraction of the big boys. Not sure which is worse lol.
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You really think there's one iota of a chance we "consciously decide " to spend less?

We aren't raising the funds other schools are. It's not a conscious decision. Its a function of donor willingness and the ability of leadership and the fundraising staff.

Despite all the "Have you given to ICON admonitions", this battle is won by getting 7 figure commitments from major donors. It looks like we're weak in that area. We need to figure it out.
 
#270      
GatorMcKlusky
FloridaMan said:
I truly hope you are right. Josh's first order of business, IMO, is to secure more NIL funding. Full stop. I feel like the whole Gies stadium deal was super, super mismanaged from a timing perspective and just a huge misstep. Josh had to know we were falling behind on NIL, and yet still pushed through that project which the fans by and large really do not care about and know was a terrible allocation of resources.
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Not Josh's only head scratching mistake. The 6-year Mizzou series (after we went 0-5 against them under Zook) was truly a horrific decision (Josh agrees with me cuz it's now down to a 4-year series). Wonder if Josh is still influenced by his time spent working for you-know-who.
 
#271      
Altgeld's Bells
Serious Late said:
Our team composite talent ranking has been bottom 3 in the league every year since 2020. Flawed metric, I think Indiana might have been dead last a year ago, but when you look at those rankings year after year, you see a pattern emerge with the programs that do vs don't do well overall, mostly do so because of the talent they have.

Bret has overperformed pretty much every single year, relative to the talent he has been given. It has happened because of both development and game planning.

This year, yeah no. We do not look nearly as talented as our opponents and we certainly aren't out game planning them. When the coaching is lacking, the talent gap becomes really glaring.

It sucks, and the Purdue lose sends everyone naturally scrambling to "is it over, are we right back to where we were now?" That can't be a feeling we live through for multiple seasons and expect Bret to stick. CONSISTENCY is key to this staff's legacy.

That said, our fans are as bad as our play on the field. Like, had we all given up on the season before this game started? I enjoyed Dan's pretty epic rant about our fans last week (I think) on twitter. The in-stadium crowd is BRUTAL. Its like we are flashing a giant "quiet, the opponent's offense is working" sign on 1st and 2nd down when we are on defense. If it werent for the student section, you would think we were on offense. 3rd down the video board reminds people they are supposed to get loud when we are on Defense and it reaches a feverish "lukewarm" decibel level. Then, awkwardly, about half the people in Section 123 would stand to cheer. Most of them looking around like "is it okay. Can we stand now? Should we make some noise?" YES. YOU SHOULD BE MAKING NOISE EVERY DOWN AND STANDING OFTEN.

This is the second game I have gone to and felt awkward for making noise in the last year. A few people were looking at me funny when I was making noise early in the game. Everyone seemed to accept it as the game went on, and I would say I got it up to about a dozen people in the vicinity of me making noise by the 4th quarter on 1st and 2nd down. It was the exact same at a February basketball game I was at last season. It is expected you stay in your seat and not disrupt others around you inside the State Farm Center these days. Like we are watching a movie. 🙄

Like, this is a real crusade that needs pushed. It is awful, our fanbase needs a complete culture overhaul at events. We had ZERO homefield advantage thanks to the crowd on Saturday. If you are a season ticket holder... what are you doing? Why aren't you a part of the solution? Why aren't more season ticket holders making noise about this, so they start working to FIX it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it has been common for football and basketball for a few years. If you make any noise when the opponent is lining up for their 3rd down, much less stand, people turn and give you a dirty look. It's not a movie theater! If you were the guy in 123 yelling for most of the game, THANK YOU!! You were able to rally some of the people into making noise. That was the loudest I've heard the area all year. (And I hope your voice recovered. 😀). Please come back for more games!!

And don't even get me started on the people cheering loud when we went for it on 4th down. That is the time you finally decide to make noise? 😑
 
#274      
STLini25
BretMyBeachHouse said:
You really think there's one iota of a chance we "consciously decide " to spend less?

We aren't raising the funds other schools are. It's not a conscious decision. Its a function of donor willingness and the ability of leadership and the fundraising staff.

Despite all the "Have you given to ICON admonitions", this battle is won by getting 7 figure commitments from major donors. It looks like we're weak in that area. We need to figure it out.
Click to expand...
We aren’t raising FOOTBALL funds other schools are. If you combine football and basketball funds we are between $15M and $20M in NIL which probably gets to the middle of the Big Ten. We are just have a lot of NIL going to an extremely successful basketball program.
 
#275      
Marshall_Lucky
Altgeld's Bells said:
Unfortunately it has been common for football and basketball for a few years. If you make any noise when the opponent is lining up for their 3rd down, much less stand, people turn and give you a dirty look. It's not a movie theater! If you were the guy in 123 yelling for most of the game, THANK YOU!! You were able to rally some of the people into making noise. That was the loudest I've heard the area all year. (And I hope your voice recovered. 😀). Please come back for more games!!

And don't even get me started on the people cheering loud when we went for it on 4th down. That is the time you finally decide to make noise? 😑
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I have a mixed take on this. My season tix are in 225 and I will say there are some folks in that section that have griped at me to sit down. They tend older, and usually only attend a few games per year and not the real big ones.

As far as getting up every third down, there is a certain energy/vibe to it, and everyone on this forum knows it and echoes it. The game threads full of people watching at home when we get an opponent to third and basically anything less than ten that are like we know this is an automatic first down because we can't stop anyone. Guess what, the fans in the seats know it too. Eventually it's hard to get amped up every third down when 0 of them end in stops. It's just bad vibes all the way up and down the thing, and the times where the crowd DOES provide good energy seems to have no impact on the outcome.
 
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