Loyer sold that foul and the ref was in a buying mode....this happens every time down the court. Credit to Loyer for great acting job.
Purdue 77, Illinois 71 Postgame
He’s not 7-4 though and given the skill/“talent” level of most players that height, it is highly unlikely that he would maintain the level he has now if he was that tall. I mean Nate Robinson would have been incredible if he had been 7-4 AND able to do the same things he could at 5-9. Not how it works though.
Oscar is 6'8... what if he were 7'4?
EDIT: That's like almost a foot taller. Oscar is/was most certainly more talented than Edey. A 7'4 Oscar T would've put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers.
Reasonable people can disagree my fellow Illini. In college, he's a unicorn. Athletic, he is not. Lumbering, slow footed, hardly any vertical displayed, no shot outside of 6 or 8 feet that he's ever displayed, has no dribble for a drive to the basket, the list goes on. I'd argue there are dozens of better basketball players than Edey in the B1G alone - it just so happens none of them are 7'4".
Is he a great post-up player, rebounder, shotblocker? Doe he pass well out of the post? Does his presence alone alter the nature of the other teams' offense"? Yes to all.
If Edey were 6-8 he'd be... not very good. Of course taller/bigger guys have some drawbacks, but overall height and size is a huge plus in basketball for a player. Let's not act like it isn't. There is a reason successful basketball players are much, much taller than the average human. His height helps him be effective and I don't know how any reasonable person would try to argue against that.
I say the guy is the least athletically talented NPOY of the year and people start strawman-arguing like I'm over here saying he's not any good or has zero talent. No, that isn't what I'm saying at all. Understand what my argument is first, before attempting to reason against it.
EDIT: In response to another comment above about him making 30 & 10 look "ho-hum": he only has 8 games of 30+ points this season. He's averaging 24. A game of 30 points is a bit of an outlier for him. And we've seen plenty players in recent years match or far surpass that scoring output in P5 basketball without being 7 foot 4 inches tall. Keegan Murray, Luka Garza, Cam Thomas, Markus Howard, Carsen Edwards, Zion Williamson, Trae Young, Buddy Hield, Tyler Haws, Doug McDermott, Antoine Mason, T.J. Warren, Erick Green, Jimmer Fredette, MarShon Brooks (there's plenty more, just fatigued so I'm stopping there). Is he more athletically talented than those guys, or does being a very large human help in some ways?
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Edey has bumped his assists up to 2 per game this year. I’d still say he passed out of the post better than Oscar and handles doubles better. If we’re all going to point out his size, fine - then take it into consideration if we’re weighing talent. I’d argue his footwork isn’t good for his size, it’s special. His touch isn’t just great for his size, it’s special. His ability to catch and have hands for someone his size is also special. Just because it isn’t flashy doesn’t mean it isn't extremely unique. That’s massive talent in my eyes and he can do things other players could never doCareer Assists:
Edey 1.3
OT 1.1
Career FT%
Edey .707
OT .705
Not markedly better in either area and there's no way has better footwork than OT as that was one of the things he was known for: his balance, body control, movement for his size (bulk).
Edey doesn't show much footwork other than turn around and chuck it at the rim. Show me some impressive post moves on YouTube of Edey. Something that makes me go "wow" he's not just a huge guy that walls off with one arm while shooting a hook shot with the other.
Edeys footwork has improved and is good for his size. But that's the operative part: for his size. Main thing is he has great touch on his shots. They all seems to go in or just rim out slightly.
Hes gigantic so it's unstoppable.
Change my mind
I don’t really buy the “if Edey was 6’8 he’d be not very good”. Like yes, I’d agree, but he’s not and it’s moot. Part of what makes him remarkably talented IS because he can do what he does at his size
We agree. He moves extremely well for his size.
My argument isn't that the guy sucks. Far from that. I've said in this thread "he's unstoppable" and I've said "he's the most dominant player in college basketball in probably the last 15 years". So I haven't seen anywhere where I've said he sucks or isn't better than Connor Vanover, for instance. In fact, quite the opposite.
What I am saying is that he's the least talented NPOY. The only somewhat reasonable argument against that I've seen so far is Oscar Tsheibwe, but he was nearly a foot shorter and this is the entire argument. Edey = taller, but less athletically talented. He's 9 inches taller than Oscar. Is he more athletically talented? I don't think so at all.
I also guess I don't understand why folks are so fervently hell-bent on defending him either, but oh well.
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I understand your argument and don’t necessarily disagree with your assertion that he is the least athletically talented NPOY. Not did I say otherwise. But in addition to that assertion you made another one — if OT was 7-4 he’d be putting up Wilt-like numbers. That’s not the way it works. You can’t just “plop” another 8 inches on a guy and say he would have all the same skills, quickness, agility, etc., but be a lot taller. So understand my argument and what I actually replied to before accusing me of not understanding yours.
Mr. Tibbs
- southeast DuPage
When I think of great college level athletic big men, the names that come to mind are (in no particular order):
- Lew Alcindor - Kareem Abdul Jabbar, UCLA (7'2", 225#)
- Bill Walton, UCLA (6'11", 210#)
- Artis Gilmore, Jacksonville (7'2", 240#)
- Ralph Sampson, Virginia (7'4", 228#)
- Robert Parrish, Centenary (7'1", 244#)
- Patrick Ewing, Georgetown (7'0", #255)
- David Robinson, Navy (7'1", 250#)
- Tim Duncan, Wake Forest (6'11", 250#)
- Danny Manning, Kansas (6'10", 275#)
- Akeem Olajuwon, Houston (7'0", 255#)
- Shaquille O'Neill, LSU (7'1", 325#)
- Frank Kaminsky, Wisconsin (7'0", 240#)
- Meyers Leonard, Illinois (7'1", 260#)
- Joel Embiid, Kansas (7'0", 280#)
- Chet Holmgren (Gonzaga) (7'1", 207#)
I saw every one of these players play in college, everyone on this list would have run Edey off the court IMO. Note this list doesn't include earlier players like Wilt or Bill Russell, both Hall of Fame college big men.
You also can't just take away 8 inches from Edey and say he'd still put up 24 & 12. He wouldn't. So no, I don't understand your argument at all. Are you saying that adding 8 inches to Oscar would make him worse? I think that's silly. You gain far, far more by being 7-4 300 than you are going to lose from it.
There are plenty of very, very tall players that have talent and skill, so its definitely not a sure bet to say Oscar automatically loses skill/talent just by making him taller. Not just talking about freaks like Durant or Wembanyama. Even a guy like Bol Bol is exceptionally talented and skilled for his 7'3 size, much more so than Edey. We can't just guarantee that if we put 8 inches on Oscar that he suddenly sucks and is terrible and can't play. Guy would be an absolute force.
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Can we talk more about this? Just a huge momentum shifting/game impacting no-call.
Not just for the foul, but the fact that Edey dragged his hand across the rim effectively blocking the ball from having any chance of going in.
How does this alternate universe outcome of that play change the game: Foul on Edey (his 4th), goal tending/basket interference (2 pts) and a FT for CoHawk.
Edey is insanely protected…and there needs to be more of a stink about it so he’s riding pine within 6 minutes of their game against a 16 seed.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
You forgot Kofi Cockburn. Big man could move.
A defensive player is allowed to contact the rim as long as it doesn't rattle the rim in a way that affects the ball's movement. The ball never touched the rim, so that didn't happen. The defensive player is also allowed to maintain contact with the ball as it enters the cylinder (which the ball may barely have done), so it isn't goaltending.
The officials missed the contact to the head, but that's it, and I can't say they don't sometimes allow such contact. Hawkins could have done a lot more to draw contact and/or make any attempt at a block impossible.
As for the foul on Harmon being "sold", maybe it was- none of us know how much force Harmon applied. But Harmon shouldnt stick his arm out there like that. Either be ready to follow your man, or if you are, don't stick your arm out for no reason.
biglug58
- Chicago, IL
I forgot about the "A" Train, Artis Gilmore! Epitomizes the old ABA days with that funky basketball.
The ref is in great position to make a call!!!! Maybe that is a jump ball by the free throw lane and I am just confused but my first look almost appears the ref is deep in the lane battling the others for a view lol
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Not going down this rabbit hole of boredom any further so this is the last I’ll say - I’m not so sure the bolded can be said with certainty. When dudes get THAT big, the chances of these hyper big dudes developing the coordination, mobility, endurance etc to be premiere players at this level is pretty rare. It can be extremely tough for super big dudes to be able to catch, hit free throws or run the court. Their physical development can pose some awkward challenges when developing basketball skills. Undoubtedly that size offers some obvious advantages but there’s a number of disadvantages that size can pose as well.
This thread has certainly taken a turn. All I know is that if James Augustine was 8'7" 450lb and had Dee's defensive prowess and speed, the refs still would've found a way to foul him out in under 7minutes against Sean May.
Honestly though, height, weight, strength, skills; Those are all attributes a player has that are a major contributor to their success on court. When trying to separate those out from athleticism, what are we even trying to do? I mean heck, if that's the case then by a pound for pound athleticism standpoint, it'd be hard to argue if anybody on our roster is more athletic than one of those 12 year old Chinese Olympic Gymnasts. From a ratio standpoint, if they were scaled up to 7' 300lbs, they'd probably be able to dunk from halfcourt...
Honestly though, height, weight, strength, skills; Those are all attributes a player has that are a major contributor to their success on court. When trying to separate those out from athleticism, what are we even trying to do? I mean heck, if that's the case then by a pound for pound athleticism standpoint, it'd be hard to argue if anybody on our roster is more athletic than one of those 12 year old Chinese Olympic Gymnasts. From a ratio standpoint, if they were scaled up to 7' 300lbs, they'd probably be able to dunk from halfcourt...
Illini2010-11
- Sugar Grove
Well, that certainly explains why we are not talking about it. Totally missed that. Thanks for keeping me honest.
Hopefully he moves on, can't wait to see how high the greatest college basketball player gets drafted in the NBA
It was really tricky tack for how they had been calling the game. Especially considering it was at a crucial juncture.
I was more curious what came first..the kicked ball which would have made it a dead ball, or the foul