Rutgers 70, Illinois 59 Postgame

Status
Not open for further replies.
#276      
DB11Headband
TCTORNADO said:
That was a strange post game radio comment by BU regarding RJ. He only played 90 seconds in the first half. Clearly if he believes in the analytics like he says he does it is time to reduce DMW's time on the floor and increase RJ's time. We are trending the wrong way and need a change of personnel. In the last 10 BIG games we are 6-4.
Click to expand...
That’s my biggest gripe-we tend to not change personnel even when it is warranted. As I said earlier in this thread, I think RJ starts Saturday. But if there is no change in the lineup, I wouldn’t be surprised-but I would be extremely disappointed. It’s absolutely time to make a change to try to turn this negative momentum around. Can’t keep trotting the same lineup out there if it is not performing well just bc they’re upperclassmen and you trust them to turn it around.

Yes, we still are in decent shape to get at least a share of the regular season title. But based on what I’ve seen the past few games, we don’t have a shot unless BU makes some changes.
 
#277      
grantlab
Looking back at what’s been a majority of the season now, my biggest concern has been this team’s bad habit of letting poor shooting impact effort in other areas of the game. Other than @NW and MSU, we really just haven’t had great defensive / effort games when we’re not hitting shots. I think this stems back to what BU preaches to guys like Plummer in that “you can impact the game in areas other than making jumpers.” And it’s a bit frustrating when you’ve got a starting 5 with an average age of ~23 getting soft on defense once the threes stop falling. Our season has been one where we’ve lived and died by the 3, and I hope this slump means we get hot in March. However, the effort has gotta be there every night if you wanna get past the first round of the NCAA Tournament, let alone the first weekend.
 
#278      
Oldskoolkoach
TCTORNADO said:
That was a strange post game radio comment by BU regarding RJ. He only played 90 seconds in the first half. Clearly if he believes in the analytics like he says he does it is time to reduce DMW's time on the floor and increase RJ's time. We are trending the wrong way and need a change of personnel. In the last 10 BIG games we are 6-4.
Click to expand...
I worry we have some guys with dead legs and running out of gas! Would an early-round exit from the B10 tourney help us come to NCAA?
 
#279      
Pikeillinifan
Champaignheat said:
I really find it interesting and disturbing that so many people think we are horrible. We have comments that are "BU doesn't know how to do offense," "He can't adjust," "Play players that haven't played more than 100 minutes all season," etc. We are still tied for the lead of the conference for losses so we are in pretty good position. The coaches see the players everyday in practice and does anyone really think they are not putting the players in that they think will give us the best chance to win.

I know that this is what a fan forum is about, but I find it crazy that we as a forum ALL know how to change a horrible shooting slump. Does everyone realize that earlier in the year Rutgers was shooting horribly?

Lastly, here are the schedules for the remaining teams currently in contention:

Illinois:
@ MSU
OSU
@ Mich
PSU
Iowa

Purdue:
Rut
@MSU
@Wisc
IU

Wisc:
Mich
@Minn
@Rutgers
Purd
Neb

MSU:
Ill
Purd
@ Mich
OSU
Mary
@ Iowa

OSU:
IU
@ILL
Mary
MSU
Mich
Iowa

Every team has some pretty tough games remaining. Sorry for such a long of post but, people let's get off the ledge.
Click to expand...
We can very easily lose three of those remaining games if we keep playing like we did in the second half of Northwestern and Purdue, and the entire Rutgers game.
 
#280      
RedRocksIllini
Champaignheat said:
I really find it interesting and disturbing that so many people think we are horrible. We have comments that are "BU doesn't know how to do offense," "He can't adjust," "Play players that haven't played more than 100 minutes all season," etc. We are still tied for the lead of the conference for losses so we are in pretty good position. The coaches see the players everyday in practice and does anyone really think they are not putting the players in that they think will give us the best chance to win.

I know that this is what a fan forum is about, but I find it crazy that we as a forum ALL know how to change a horrible shooting slump. Does everyone realize that earlier in the year Rutgers was shooting horribly?

Lastly, here are the schedules for the remaining teams currently in contention:

Illinois:
@ MSU
OSU
@ Mich
PSU
Iowa

Purdue:
Rut
@MSU
@Wisc
IU

Wisc:
Mich
@Minn
@Rutgers
Purd
Neb

MSU:
Ill
Purd
@ Mich
OSU
Mary
@ Iowa

OSU:
IU
@ILL
Mary
MSU
Mich
Iowa

Every team has some pretty tough games remaining. Sorry for such a long of post but, people let's get off the ledge.
Click to expand...
Interesting omission in this list of teams currently in contention. Hints: they've beaten all the teams on this list and they just finished taking the (formerly) top team in the conference to the woodshed.
 
#281      
PassingBy
LoveIlliniHoops said:
Watch the replay of RJ in the first half. He looked lost, hesitant, unsure…..idk, just not game ready. I honestly can see why BU was concerned about playing him more

I’m also of the camp that he needs to play MUCH more, but I’ll defend Brad for being reluctant.
Click to expand...

BUT, the player that replaced RJ was not playing any better - BOTH on defense AND offense

RJ was not playing good on Defense, but had his offense going

Why would a coach complain so much when his entire team was pretty much stinking on defense? He stated in that very interview that he has never had a team out rebounded by 20. So, what exactly was RJ doing that was so bad? Just asking. Curious
 
#282      
the juiceman cometh
the national said:
Sit them both? Neither had their head in the game. It happens, it’s a long season. Give them a break to take some of the pressure off. Might also help light a fuse. They need to get hungry.
Click to expand...
It will never actually happen, but starting RJ and Hawkins over those two to light a fire might be a good move. Grandison particularly has been a bit of a let down. I thought he was a decent defender last season, but he's been bad this year, and Plummer-esqe recently. And early in the season he showed some ability to drive to the basket but in Big Ten play it's been strictly the 3pt set shot, which has been increasingly streaky/unreliable. Is he unable to play the role of the all around scorer against this level of competition, or has he been asked to focus on the role of spot up shooter?
 
#283      
madcrazeeballa
Obviously a rough game, the team has too much talent to lose in this fashion. Especially when getting crushed on the boards is effort related. I personally thought swapping in some other bodies to see if that woke up the veterans on the team would've done something, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Onward to the next game though, I'm sure the team will have some 'Brad Underwood' type of practices and will hopefully come out ready to play against a struggling MSU team.

If anyone is interested, sports-reference has some interesting advanced box scores stats that I found surprising, specifically the DRtg and BPM. Limited sample sizes due to minutes played, but confirms none of the starters were particularly good defensively and only 2 starters (Trent and Kofi) were positives for BPM.

1645115619110.png


1645115633513.png
 
#284      
KnoxIllini2
Oldskoolkoach said:
I worry we have some guys with dead legs and running out of gas! Would an early-round exit from the B10 tourney help us come to NCAA?
Click to expand...
Not that I'd want to see an early exit from the BTT, but it might do us some good to get rest.

Trent has been the Walking Wounded all season, Belo hasn't caught a break, Grandi is in a slump of all slumps, and DMFW has been less than effective (to put it nicely).

HOWEVER, I do enjoy seeing the CoHawk and Melendez contingents aligning. Those two on the floor together led the fake rally last night.
 
Last edited:
#285      
CDRUSN
The Rutgers blowout was more than just one game. It follows immediately after second half collapses against both NU and PU, and is starting to become a worrying pattern of regression whereby long scoring lapses, multiple unforced turnovers, and lack of rebounding and defensive effort define the Illini. I get that it is a long grueling season and there will be some off nights for every team. But, we need to get this trend turned around so we go into the post season playing at our highest level, instead of limping in on a downward trajectory.
 
#287      
RockfordIllini
Honestly I think the team is just tired. The cumulative effect of the extended minutes due to injuries, covid, the grind of the BIG season, I think has taken its toll.

Missed shots, now getting destroyed on the boards (vs destroying earlier in the year) and defensive lapses to me are a sign of tired legs.

Hard to blame Brad for going for putting the pedal to the metal as our FROSH weren’t ready and none of our bench guys really earned his trust, but I think those minutes are showing.

Good news is Belo looks like he is getting his wind back and, although still off, his timing does seem to be getting better. Light bulb has clearly clicked on for RJ. And Omar and Coleman have looked better of late.

We may not win the BIG, but there is still time get our second wind. We certainly aren’t peaking right now, so no danger of peaking too early. Question is can we peak at the right time?
 
#288      
sacraig
HensonHall71 said:
I agree - getting Belo starting and playing 30+ min a game is key to any hopes of a March run - I'm still surprised he isn't playing more - he's been back for a month now, I know he had COVID during that time and turned an ankle but it's hard to believe it's still conditioning at this point unless the ankle held him back again this week, it's almost as if BU doesn't see him as a starter even when completely healthy? Which would be mind boggling, teams have figured out if they pressure our guards and double Kofi on the catch we don't have a great answer for that - Curbelo is that answer, he'll get to the paint against pressure and get Kofi easy baskets, we just don't seem to want to take advantage of having Curbelo on the floor with Kofi for some reason.

It's almost as if we want to handicap ourselves unnecessarily - "we don't want to play our two best players on the floor at the same time, that would be unfair"
Click to expand...
COVID likely undid most or all of the conditioning he did after being cleared from the concussion protocol. Even mild COVID can cause pretty extreme fatigue. You'll recover just fine but you'll feel like you were hit by a bus while you're doing it.
 
#289      
KevinC
HensonHall71 said:
I agree - getting Belo starting and playing 30+ min a game is key to any hopes of a March run - I'm still surprised he isn't playing more - he's been back for a month now, I know he had COVID during that time and turned an ankle but it's hard to believe it's still conditioning at this point unless the ankle held him back again this week, it's almost as if BU doesn't see him as a starter even when completely healthy? Which would be mind boggling, teams have figured out if they pressure our guards and double Kofi on the catch we don't have a great answer for that - Curbelo is that answer, he'll get to the paint against pressure and get Kofi easy baskets, we just don't seem to want to take advantage of having Curbelo on the floor with Kofi for some reason.

It's almost as if we want to handicap ourselves unnecessarily - "we don't want to play our two best players on the floor at the same time, that would be unfair"
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with you. Kofi and Trent play together quite a lot.
 
#290      
GBIllini
While Hawkins did play better last night he lost track of his man at least twice leading to scores. The last one was a corner three when we had closed it to ten. Its those little things that drive you crazy.
 
#291      
altgeld88
HensonHall71 said:
I agree - getting Belo starting and playing 30+ min a game is key to any hopes of a March run - I'm still surprised he isn't playing more - he's been back for a month now, I know he had COVID during that time and turned an ankle but it's hard to believe it's still conditioning at this point unless the ankle held him back again this week, it's almost as if BU doesn't see him as a starter even when completely healthy? Which would be mind boggling, teams have figured out if they pressure our guards and double Kofi on the catch we don't have a great answer for that - Curbelo is that answer, he'll get to the paint against pressure and get Kofi easy baskets, we just don't seem to want to take advantage of having Curbelo on the floor with Kofi for some reason.

It's almost as if we want to handicap ourselves unnecessarily - "we don't want to play our two best players on the floor at the same time, that would be unfair"
Click to expand...
The fact that Belo hasn't been at full strength since early November, and that he hasn't practiced at all with the team until perhaps the past week or so contributes mightily to the lack of flow when he's on the floor. Last night he had a gorgeous drive in the 1H down the right side of the lane, drawing a player on either side of him (including the guy on Kofi in the paint) and then, as he ascended toward a layup, dished quickly to a suddenly wide open Kofi for an unchallenged slam.

That's the kind of stuff he can do regularly, penetrating and creating open scoring opportunities by drawing coverage. I noted when he was in last evening our movement away from the ball was often terrible and he had trouble creating accordingly. Go back to late last season, particularly the BTT, and watch how the players moved without the ball when he was running the offense. If he can practice regularly through the end of the month and beyond, and stay healthy, I'm optimistic for March.
 
#292      
sacraig
altgeld88 said:
The fact that Belo hasn't been at full strength since early November, and that he hasn't practiced at all with the team until perhaps the past week or so contributes mightily to the lack of flow when he's on the floor. Last night he had a gorgeous drive in the 1H down the right side of the lane, drawing a player on either side of him (including the guy on Kofi in the paint) and then, as he ascended toward a layup, dished quickly to a suddenly wide open Kofi for an unchallenged slam.

That's the kind of stuff he can do regularly, penetrating and creating open scoring opportunities by drawing coverage. I noted when he was in last evening our movement away from the ball was often terrible and he had trouble creating accordingly. Go back to late last season, particularly the BTT, and watch how the players moved without the ball when he was running the offense. If he can practice regularly through the end of the month and beyond, and stay healthy, I'm optimistic for March.
Click to expand...
He has the benefit of having played a season with Cockburn already, so Kofi knows what to expect. Notably, when he's on the floor with Payne or other bigs, they aren't always ready for his no-look or tight window passes. He had a nice alley-oop with Payne last night so maybe they're starting to jell a bit? Still, this is exactly where his lack of practice with the team hurts. If the others aren't ready for his aggressive driving and quick, tricky passing style, then even good passes can become turnovers.
 
#293      
illini80
TCTORNADO said:
That was a strange post game radio comment by BU regarding RJ. He only played 90 seconds in the first half. Clearly if he believes in the analytics like he says he does it is time to reduce DMW's time on the floor and increase RJ's time. We are trending the wrong way and need a change of personnel. In the last 10 BIG games we are 6-4.
Click to expand...
I didn’t have any problem with pulling him, but I think that’s where you coach him up a bit and put him back in. Unless it’s a recurring issue, which it clearly hasn’t been.
 
#294      
Roundball Sage
D1959 said:
So you put in podz and goode with 20 seconds remaining in the game. really? So wrong
Click to expand...

Illini are a veteran team. At this point in their careers they should NOT be having a problem with preparation and desire to play. That is concerning. With a Big Ten Title on the line and the Tournament coming, this is not the way you want to approach things or look going into the big pressure games.

Coach can’t go out on the floor and play for these guys. Coach can only do so much. And after years of being together, what can he say anymore to get these guys on track or motivated to rise to a tough playing environment? Haven't they already heard it all?

It’s not easy missing 13 Three-pointers in a row. Really, it’s not. And when the Illini are not hitting Threes, they do not win. This is a team that outside of Kofi cannot create two-point offense.

When the veteran players don’t have it (like last night), what Coach can do is go more to the kids. Go much earlier in the game and deeper into the bench. There is talent there that needs floor time. Coach has been too loyal for too long to the older guys who are not producing.

We do NOT want to see a repeat of last year’s Illini tournament showing.
 
#295      
Calillini
bringbackoldkams said:
As many have mentioned, we're 0.5 games out of 1st with 5 games left - I'll take that any day. This comes even with our expected 2nd best player Belo not playing much (don't want to say regressed - yet) and our X-factor CoHawk not making the jump he's capable of. 4-1 to finish the year and a share of 1st is likely ours, just need to get back to playing with energy, especially on the glass. The shots will start falling again.
Click to expand...
I know that we still in a good place record wise, but I don’t like the glide path we are on right now
 
#296      
Hopingfor500
PassingBy said:
BUT, the player that replaced RJ was not playing any better - BOTH on defense AND offense

RJ was not playing good on Defense, but had his offense going

Why would a coach complain so much when his entire team was pretty much stinking on defense? He stated in that very interview that he has never had a team out rebounded by 20. So, what exactly was RJ doing that was so bad? Just asking. Curious
Click to expand...
Did you see him cover Harper when he first got in? It wasn't pretty. The deer in the headlights look after merited him sitting down for a while.
 
#297      
InDaAZ
Hopingfor500 said:
Did you see him cover Harper when he first got in? It wasn't pretty. The deer in the headlights look after merited him sitting down for a while.
Click to expand...
The headlights were RHJ’s eyes lighting up when he saw an 18-yr-old guarding him, and how easy it was to back him down and physically dominate. But there aren’t too many Harpers in CBB.

To BU’s credit, RJ was given another opportunity late in the game; and to RJ’s credit, he made the most of it. The kid is learning at a rapid pace, and I’d guess we’ll see starter’s minutes given him in short order.
 
#298      
jjv0004
This is a team that should be a 4-5 seed in the big dance. They have played recently like a team that is not top 25 material.
 
#299      
Illiniindian
Hopingfor500 said:
I think that people need to quit over complicating things. It's not the refs, it's not the toughness, it's not fifth year guys having to step up.....

It's the fact that this team only has two heads offensively. 1)Kofi and 2)Three Point Shooting.

The offense is built around putting four shooters around Kofi and taking the pick your poison approach.

When the other team cuts one of the heads off, this is a team that is very, very easily defended because the guards are one dimensional. If Frazier and Plummer aren't shooting the three, they really don't add any other value on offense and add to that th fact that they're undersized.

In late December thru January, we were shooting the lights out. Now, it's sporadic and it shows through the scoring droughts and the Jeckyl and Hyde halves. First half vs Purdue, we couldn't miss and we were winning. Second half, we couldn't hit and got blown out. First half vs Northwestern we couldn't miss, second half we couldn't hit and coughed up a 15 point lead. The first half vs Indiana we were...."ok". The second half we shot the eyes out.

That's just what this team is and there are really good coaches in this league. They've figured it out. They don't care if Kofi gets 20/10....just shut down the three point line.

Now, RJ is the one guy on the roster who brings something different to the table because he can slash and is long. That has been showing. The question is, can you live with what he's going to give up on the other end this early in his career.

These next three are going to be tough ones.
Click to expand...
Great post. Perhaps more of Coleman Hawkins to give us a true power forward
 
#300      
Big Jack
GBIllini said:
While Hawkins did play better last night he lost track of his man at least twice leading to scores. The last one was a corner three when we had closed it to ten. Its those little things that drive you crazy.
Click to expand...
Go back and watch a slow motion replay of that play... CH Was actually forced to help my on someone elses man and then screened out by the other player. Blame the guy who.lost his man CH had to guard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back