Rutgers 91, Illinois 88 Postgame

Johnny Lawrence said:

If this was a young team I would be able to accept growing pains due to the limited off-season workouts but this is supposed to be a veteran team.

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Unfortunately, I think the "veteran team" narrative is a little bit of a myth. We're starting a freshman, and asking a second freshman to play big minutes. Kofi is a sophomore. So almost half of our primary rotation of 7 players is underclassman. I wouldn't call that a young team or a veteran team. It seems like something right in the middle to me.

The good news is that Kofi is playing well as a sophomore, Curbelo is getting more comfortable all of the time, and Miller will continue to have opportunities to work things out and get into a rhythm. I still think this team will come together late in the season. We're just not quite there yet.

Agree. If I’m Mulcahy and that flopping nonsense works, I definitely do it. That’s why the refs absolutely have to put a stop to it. The penalty for flopping should be a technical, and if you do it twice, an ejection.

Henson71 said:

He's a pretty good look at the DW flagrant foul - at no point does DW's arm or elbow make contact with Mulchahy's face. If anything Mulchahy put his chin on DW's shoulder and throws his head back like he was punched.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1340743855864492032

Look players flop all the time and get calls, but how can two officials look at that replay and decide it was a flagrant? They clearly didn't see it, because if they did they would have just called it flagrant right away, instead they huddled up for a few minutes then decided it was flagrant. Same thing with Kofi's flagrant that had significant impact on that outcome.

This really needs to stop with officials allowing players to flop and get flagrant fouls called. It's working and we're headed down a path to becoming a Euro soccer league with all the flopping. They need to assess a technical on the other player if the review shows it's a flop - it would at least make players think twice about flopping.

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Re whether we’d love mulcahy- look, I think we’d love players who play hard, draw fouls, play with intelligence etc. even if we hate those types of guys like aaron craft on other teams. But flopping? I guess we’d be happy if a guy fooled the ref into calling it, but I don’t think I’d particularly like the player.

VAIllini35 said:

Not being defensive. It is obnoxious to assume I would like or want a player just because he is on our team. You are basically telling me that my view of what I like in a player and his actions/play would automatically change just because he was on our team. So, yes, that is telling me what I think.

I also don't agree "we'd all love him" -- You may like that type of player, but I don't assume all basketball fans do. That is just your opinion and no doubt others - but no doubt not all.

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Not my thought either.....he's a punk version of Grayson Allen from puke...and puke is what I want to do when i see a player act like that...
Put your B1G boy pants on and play the game right, not ,like a diva

haasi said:

Re whether we’d love mulcahy- look, I think we’d love players who play hard, draw fouls, play with intelligence etc. even if we hate those types of guys like aaron craft on other teams. But flopping? I guess we’d be happy if a guy fooled the ref into calling it, but I don’t think I’d particularly like the player.

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He reminds me too much of a CJ Fredrick kind of guy. Whiner, kid who annoys everyone he plays against. Perhaps I am sensitive to this kind of play, but i watched too much of it in AAU and it got really annoying. And when refs buy into this crap is just beyond what they are being paid to do. He was also whining and looking over at his coach all game - so, for me, it goes well beyond the one or two plays - its his entire makeup.

Basketball has been trying to get this crap out of the game for good reason - its not fundamental basketball, rather attempting to trick the referee into something that dd not happen. Kinda like the head snap (as if being shot from the grassy knoll) when driving past a player. The refs caught onto that and the charge/flop.

Some say, if it works - no problem. I say, lace em up and play hard and win with talent and your head, not by trying to fake the refs out. But then again, maybe its just the headband....

VAIllini35 said:

Not being defensive. It is obnoxious to assume I would like or want a player just because he is on our team. You are basically telling me that my view of what I like in a player and his actions/play would automatically change just because he was on our team. So, yes, that is telling me what I think.

I also don't agree "we'd all love him" -- You may like that type of player, but I don't assume all basketball fans do. That is just your opinion and no doubt others - but no doubt not all.

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Ok, no worries, I certainly wasn't trying to trigger you...and it was very clearly not some obnoxious attempt to tell you what you think or attack you personally.

It was more of a light hearted attempt to point out fan hypocrisies with players like him. I also clearly used "we" and "we'd" to include myself and other fans in that hypocrisy. I then said of course I wanted to punch him yesterday. Just like the Iowa Punchables.

These players swap teams literally every year in hockey and the fan base welcomes them with open arms. And you are correct, some fans won't love them, but they accept them because they are on "their" team. I find it all amusing and entertaining...which was the initial reason for my light hearted attempt to point out the fan hypocrisies. NOT YOUR hypocrisy...fans...us...we...in general.
It was not meant as you took it...and I did not mean to upset you!

I generally try to keep it light in here. With a touch of .gif humor and a warm orange smile....that wraps around you like a warm summer breeze, and carries you off to a far away place where Kenny Battle flies effortlessly, Dee Brown dashes across fields of gold, while Frankie Williams glides through the trees, Kendall Gill dances around the valley as Luther Head and DWill sip orange tea.....AND THEN OMG LUCAS JOHNSON KICKS YOU IN THE SHIN, KOFI PUNCHES YOUR SISTER AND ANDRES FELIZ DRIVES HIS SHOULDER INTO YOUR NUTS!!

Have a nice day!

haasi said:

Agree. If I’m Mulcahy and that flopping nonsense works, I definitely do it. That’s why the refs absolutely have to put a stop to it. The penalty for flopping should be a technical, and if you do it twice, an ejection.

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I know I might be in the minority on this one, but I do think DMW made contact with Mulcahy's chin when he threw his elbow back. It's clearer when you watch it in higher resolution. And it wasn't a light tap. You can see Mulcahy's head wobble from the contact. At the time, I also couldn't figure out why DMW had his elbow so high up. Personally, I think DMW lost his composure, and probably because Mulcahy got under his skin.

It's taken me nearly 24 hours before I could visit this site because it was such a frustrating performance by the team. I think the most disappointing thing was that this game was lost based on heart and hunger....both of which the Illini lost in the 2nd half. I think we missed feliz and AG the most during that game because they could come off the bench and help elevate that drive and crash the boards, get a bucket when we need. Perhaps we'll get it back, but right now, this team has yet to gel appropriately and while we still have a ways to go, we better get to it quickly because we're going to need to prove we belong. Winning 1 game against Duke does not and will not justify the losses against Mizzou and rutgers and I'm sure another team that we'll play.

Pros:
- Played 1st half like we should've and showed what we're capable of

Cons:
- There's no heart/hunger on this team when we think we have it. It's like we have overconfidence and believe that with any lead, we can just come back
- Ace and Curbelo really showed their lack of experience. That was a terrible game for Ace and while Curbelo could really make a difference, he took himself out of that game with those ridiculous fouls under the basket and trying for that 1% chance of success steal for his 5th foul
- Our bench was exposed. Grandison should've been one we could rely on to guard harper jr and not put it on GB to keep up with him when DM got in foul trouble, but he wasn't there nor was anyone else called upon (BBV in particular).
- We are lacking heart and while Ayo and Kofi are studs, there's clearly nobody else (other than maybe Curbelo) that can manufacture a bucket

ARGH! so frustrating and I hope they learn and get it together soon...because if Ayo wants to have Dakich continue to say he's the best guard in the country, then he needs to step up and lift the team. I don't think we'll drop out of the top 25 yet, but we're getting close. One more loss even to a top 25 team will likely spell our doom if we don't at least win the next 4 games.

Johnny Lawrence said:

Yep. Playing against other 18-22 year old kids who don't seem to have a problem playing consistent for 40 minutes.

If this was a young team I would be able to accept growing pains due to the limited off-season workouts but this is supposed to be a veteran team.

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Exactly!

skyIdub said:

Ok, no worries, I certainly wasn't trying to trigger you...and it was very clearly not some obnoxious attempt to tell you what you think or attack you personally.

It was more of a light hearted attempt to point out fan hypocrisies with players like him. I also clearly used "we" and "we'd" to include myself and other fans in that hypocrisy. I then said of course I wanted to punch him yesterday. Just like the Iowa Punchables.

These players swap teams literally every year in hockey and the fan base welcomes them with open arms. And you are correct, some fans won't love them, but they accept them because they are on "their" team. I find it all amusing and entertaining...which was the initial reason for my light hearted attempt to point out the fan hypocrisies. NOT YOUR hypocrisy...fans...us...we...in general.
It was not meant as you took it...and I did not mean to upset you!

I generally try to keep it light in here. With a touch of .gif humor and a warm orange smile....that wraps around you like a warm summer breeze, and carries you off to a far away place where Kenny Battle flies effortlessly, Dee Brown dashes across fields of gold, while Frankie Williams glides through the trees, Kendall Gill dances around the valley as Luther Head and DWill sip orange tea.....AND THEN OMG LUCAS JOHNSON KICKS YOU IN THE SHIN, KOFI PUNCHES YOUR SISTER AND ANDRES FELIZ DRIVES HIS SHOULDER INTO YOUR NUTS!!

Have a nice day!

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No problem - maybe I am Covid fatigued. But these types of guys are a trigger for me as you note . Kinda like the entire Iowa player type kid (and perhaps half of Wisconsin). No worries and didn't mean to get too reactive. I do appreciate the comments.

If Mulcahy took the shot that he pretended he took, he would've been spraying his chiclets all over the court. I've taken elbows/forearms to the face from much smaller guys than DMFW and the face loses every time.
The B1G should be apologizing for that one today. They won't but they should be.

LostinNebraska said:

If Mulcahy took the shot that he pretended he took, he would've been spraying his chiclets all over the court. I've taken elbows/forearms to the face from much smaller guys than DMFW and the face loses every time.
The B1G should be apologizing for that one today. They won't but they should be.

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He took a small amount of contact and sold it. Of course the contact wasn't what he made it out to be, but I do think there was contact. At a minimum DMW flared his arm up and out, and that gave Mulcahy the opportunity to do what he did. Do I think the refs could and should have seen that this was primarily an acting job and swallowed their whistles? Of course. But I also wish our DMW, a Senior and one of the leaders on our team, had kept his composure and not let Mulcahy bait him.

JFGsCoffeeMug said:

I know I might be in the minority on this one, but I do think DMW made contact with Mulcahy's chin when he threw his elbow back. It's clearer when you watch it in higher resolution. And it wasn't a light tap. You can see Mulcahy's head wobble from the contact. At the time, I also couldn't figure out why DMW had his elbow so high up. Personally, I think DMW lost his composure, and probably because Mulcahy got under his skin.

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I hope so, it would make it easier to accept if that was the case - Mulchahy's reaction was still like Kramer getting hit by a Keith Hernandez spit ball

JFGsCoffeeMug said:

When you allow 15 offensive rebounds, turn it over 13 times, commit 26 personal fouls, and gift your opponent 21 more FT attempts, you are not performing at a level that reflects an understanding of how little room for error there is in these games. I have absolute confidence in our staff and team's ability to tighten things up by the end of the season. But we shouldn't pretend that some of our current issues aren't self-inflicted.

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When you play like that and lose by 3 on the road to a ranked team, I actually think it shows how much room for error this team does have. They just need to quit making so many of those errors. It also shows the potential if and when we do tighten things up. Based upon recent history I am confident that BU does get things worked out by the second half of the B1G schedule, and that is when we are really going to need it. Looking forward to watching this team (especially the freshmen) grow and realize its potential.

Remember the Nicholls State, Arizona, Missouri and Miami games early last year. We are light years ahead of that at this point. No this isn't the 2004-05 team, which had a rotation of 5 upperclassmen starters and two redshirt seniors and a sophomore off the bench. This team has two freshmen and a sophomore in the top 7 of the rotation. No one should be surprised or disappointed of where this team is at now. But we can be hopeful of where they will be by March.

Interesting. I wasn’t sure but I definitely didn’t see contact. I’d definitely admit that it’s possible. Part of what colored my thinking is a few other plays/flops he made where he got the benefit of unfair calls. Like his ‘block’ of Kofi where he came across Kofi’s arm.

JFGsCoffeeMug said:

I know I might be in the minority on this one, but I do think DMW made contact with Mulcahy's chin when he threw his elbow back. It's clearer when you watch it in higher resolution. And it wasn't a light tap. You can see Mulcahy's head wobble from the contact. At the time, I also couldn't figure out why DMW had his elbow so high up. Personally, I think DMW lost his composure, and probably because Mulcahy got under his skin.

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haasi said:

Interesting. I wasn’t sure but I definitely didn’t see contact. I’d definitely admit that it’s possible. Part of what colored my thinking is a few other plays/flops he made where he got the benefit of unfair calls. Like his ‘block’ of Kofi where he came across Kofi’s arm.

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headband diva and DMW had an earlier semi confrontation where diva went at DMW and when DMW got face up with him ,diva cowered down like a frightened puppy....DMW got payback and diva played it up where a ref stepped in when he should have let it pass....6 point swing and gave RU some momentum that wasn't deserved....That short ref always calls against us...there, I said it !!!

haasi said:

Interesting. I wasn’t sure but I definitely didn’t see contact. I’d definitely admit that it’s possible. Part of what colored my thinking is a few other plays/flops he made where he got the benefit of unfair calls. Like his ‘block’ of Kofi where he came across Kofi’s arm.

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Yeah, he was a thorn in our side the entire game. And, yes, he did sell things when he could. To be honest, he annoyed the crap out of me too. But on that particular play, there's no doubt in my mind there was contact. I went back to the DVR and watched it again just to make sure. Look for the head wobble at the time of contact. Don't think he faked that. And the officials also saw something on review.

At the end of the day, we can be frustrated at opposing players or the refs, but that won't really lead anywhere. On the other hand, Underwood absolutely has a chance to have a heart-to-heart with DMW about how important he is to our team and how critical it is for him to keep his composure as a team captain and senior. I think DMW is a good kid. He'll learn from this. This won't be the last time we come across a "Mulcahy" this year. We'll need to overcome it.

Johnny Lawrence said:

Yep. Playing against other 18-22 year old kids who don't seem to have a problem playing consistent for 40 minutes.

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It is playing consistent for every game that few teams, whether college or pro, seem to manage. Rutgers won't manage it every game, and we will have games where we are the consistent team and it is the other team's fanbase bewailing the inconsistency of their game.

Has the flagrant foul been extrapolated way past its original purpose. A true flagrant foul should warrant 2 free throws and possession. However, when the refs have to go to the monitor and study for several minutes, how "flagrant" is it? And do you award the other team a potential 4 point bonus for a marginal technical violation. Today's game is far too physical to categorize some of these "flagrant" fouls as flagrant. Similar to how "targeting" has been extended in football.

It was noted in the pre-game thread that this was going to be the hardest game of our first 10 conference games. We came within 3 points of a W. That gives me pretty great hopes that we can start this season 9-1 still.

Goode-for-3 said:

It was noted in the pre-game thread that this was going to be the hardest game of our first 10 conference games. We came within 3 points of a W. That gives me pretty great hopes that we can start this season 9-1 still.

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Analytics and NET will like the 3 pt loss, but it wasn't particularly close after the flagrant call. We hit a 3 with time expiring.

Still, a lot to like about that game. Losing to Rutgers is nothing to be ashamed about. Continue to play with a purpose and we win a lot of games.

Goode-for-3 said:

It was noted in the pre-game thread that this was going to be the hardest game of our first 10 conference games. We came within 3 points of a W. That gives me pretty great hopes that we can start this season 9-1 still.

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We can (and if we're going to live up to expectations should) absolutely win our next 8. However I personally wouldn't put too much stock in the 3 pt. margin. After Rutgers went on their run, it never looked like we were going to take the lead back, and the lead was consistently around 7-10 points. Rutgers missed a couple FTs and let us hit a consolation 3 at the buzzer that decreased the margin. We got outplayed by more than 3 points.

JFGsCoffeeMug said:

Yeah, he was a thorn in our side the entire game. And, yes, he did sell things when he could. To be honest, he annoyed the crap out of me too. But on that particular play, there's no doubt in my mind there was contact. I went back to the DVR and watched it again just to make sure. Look for the head wobble at the time of contact. Don't think he faked that. And the officials also saw something on review.

At the end of the day, we can be frustrated at opposing players or the refs, but that won't really lead anywhere. On the other hand, Underwood absolutely has a chance to have a heart-to-heart with DMW about how important he is to our team and how critical it is for him to keep his composure as a team captain and senior. I think DMW is a good kid. He'll learn from this. This won't be the last time we come across a "Mulcahy" this year. We'll need to overcome it.

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I am inclined to agree with most of what you said. I don't think DMW lost his composure. Rutgers was going over our backs the whole game and the refs were allowing them to. I think that DMW may have been trying to get an elbow into his chest but, got a little high with it (or maybe the Rutgers kid bent a little more than he expected).

I’ve got no problem ragging on Mulcahy for flopping, regardless of the elbow to the chin from the grassy knoll. I do think Trent Frazier is one of the best at selling contact to the refs, but he’s definitely not used the head throwback as much the past couple years...fuzzy memory thinks he got called for flopping in the last year or two.
Unrelated, how would those of you that really know the game rate Adam Miller’s defense? BU must think it’s at least serviceable or there’s such a small rotation that he needs him to stay in even when not hitting shots.

pruman91 said:

Not my thought either.....he's a punk version of Grayson Allen from puke...and puke is what I want to do when i see a player act like that...
Put your B1G boy pants on and play the game right, not ,like a diva

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Trent flops more than anybody in the league. So much so that refs really don’t give him many fouls in that regard anymore.