St. Louis Cardinals 2022

#1      

IlliniFan85

IlliniFan85
Colorado Springs, CO
IlliniFan85
Its time to update the thread. This was how I lead of last years thread:

I'm still upset about Wong being released. If he isn't resigned it means more deteriorated Carpenter at 3rd and more deteriorated Fowler in right. What a product ownership is putting on the field for the fans. Who really wants to go watch that in person?

Turns out, we ended up with Arenado at 3B instead of Carp, which was ideal. And we ended up with Edman at 2B, which was ok. I mean he won a gold glove, but we also got to watch him play RF, and that wasn't ideal. And finally Fowler was traded away (which again was ideal) before injuring his knee and we didn't have to worry about any of that.

So the questions we have this year is whether we will even have a season. And we will be wondering all year if a season occurs if our pitching will hold up.

Go Cards!
 
#2      
pruman91
IlliniFan85 said:
Its time to update the thread. This was how I lead of last years thread:

I'm still upset about Wong being released. If he isn't resigned it means more deteriorated Carpenter at 3rd and more deteriorated Fowler in right. What a product ownership is putting on the field for the fans. Who really wants to go watch that in person?

Turns out, we ended up with Arenado at 3B instead of Carp, which was ideal. And we ended up with Edman at 2B, which was ok. I mean he won a gold glove, but we also got to watch him play RF, and that wasn't ideal. And finally Fowler was traded away (which again was ideal) before injuring his knee and we didn't have to worry about any of that.

So the questions we have this year is whether we will even have a season. And we will be wondering all year if a season occurs if our pitching will hold up.

Go Cards!
Click to expand...
SS is my biggest worry right now , with pitching depth , rotation AND bullpen close behind...............Marmol's managing style will probably mirror Schildt's , so that isn't as big an unknown as if we had hired someone from outside the organization..........
 
#3      
Illwinsagain
Things that I am interested to find out...

1. Pitching, without good-great pitching, this team goes nowhere.
2. Will the outfield continue to perform? Last year, they exceeded my expectations.
3. I do agree that SS is a concern, but if our biggest issue is DeJong/Sosa, I can live with that.
4. What solution is there for the potential DH? Would we really go with an unproven bat? Is there a decent FA out there?

I fully expect a reasonably full season.
 
#4      
jmwillini
I hope I am wrong, but I think the team is a lot closer to the first 5 months, than the winning streak.

So many questions.

Pitching
--------

Is Flaherty healthy? Are Mikolas, Hudson?
Does Waino suddenly show his age?
Is Matz the 20 or 21 version?
Does Reyes finally stay injury free and live up to his potential. (Remember Reyes being on of the top 2-3 pitching prospect and Taveras being the #1 hitting prospect?)
Still need at least 2 relief pitchers.

Hitting
-------

They really need a left handed bat. (Is Gorman ready? Are other prospects?)
Still believe they need an upgrade at short. Would love the early career version of DeJong, but that's a while back. I loved Mo's explanation of the rib injury hurting him when he was hitting right about .200 before he was hurt.
 
#5      
the national
My gut tells me DeJong has a bounce back. He never got his timing after being injured. The power was (on rare occasion) there but his timing was hardly right. A good spring training would do him well.
 
#6      
wpr
Oh boy. Baseball talk. Now if the owners and players talked too.
DH is here. Extended playoffs. Expanded rosters. Teams will still control young players. Maybe give up one year of control.
As for StL I am not overly concerned about SS. The bench and DH will matter. The development of the 4-7 starting pitchers. There will be injuries and pitchers not doing as well as we want so look for changes in the rotation. We can always use more help in the pen.
 
#7      
the juiceman cometh
1. Pitching: I'm honestly worried here. Matz is a fine but underwhelming addition. If Flaherty, Hudson, and Mikolas can stay healthy we should be fine, but that's a big if considering their last couple seasons. Waino is awesome, but given his age I don't think we can put all our eggs in the repeat of last season basket. Would like to see another pick up, ideally front end of rotation type, but being realistic we probably end up just signing a cheap 6th starter type.

2. SS: We're not going to add anyone here, and I'm kinda fine with that now. DeJong and Sosa are underwhelming on the batting end but at least solid defensively.

3. DH: If this happens I think we roll with a platoon including the following internal options: Nootbar, Yepez, Baker and Gorman. Probably Nootbar and Yepez to start. Nootbar and Gorman are lefties, which helps.

4. Lineup strategy: Will Marmol finally end Edman's run as lead off? This was one of my biggest frustrations with Schildt. A lead off hitter is supposed to get on base. Edman's OBP was .308 last season. That is bad. For comparison's sake, Sosa's OBP was .346. Heck, Carp's was .305!
 
#10      
wpr
As we sit here and wait while the owners and MLBPA dither I can't help but feel the fans are like Oliver Twist.

thumb_please-si%C5%99-maylhave-somemore-memecrunch-com-oliver-twist-please-sir-48995037.png
 
#11      
Illwinsagain
wpr said:
As we sit here and wait while the owners and MLBPA dither I can't help but feel the fans are like Oliver Twist.

thumb_please-si%C5%99-maylhave-somemore-memecrunch-com-oliver-twist-please-sir-48995037.png
Click to expand...
I am guessing that the "average" fan will not really start sweating until after the Super Bowl. I know it is late this year, right about when pitchers and catchers usually report.
 
#12      
jrichisamazing
So have we ever found out what was meant my the "philisophical differences between Schildt and the organization that led to his firing?
 
#13      
the juiceman cometh
jrichisamazing said:
So have we ever found out what was meant my the "philisophical differences between Schildt and the organization that led to his firing?
Click to expand...
No, but if I had to guess it probably had to do with bone headed decisions regarding lineups and pitching. The guy batted someone with a .308 OBP in the leadoff spot pretty much all season and his decision to put Reyes in when he did in the Wild Card game was indefensible. I know a lot of you hate Mo, but Schildt was not a good manager.
 
#14      
Se Il Illini
the juiceman cometh said:
No, but if I had to guess it probably had to do with bone headed decisions regarding lineups and pitching. The guy batted someone with a .308 OBP in the leadoff spot pretty much all season and his decision to put Reyes in when he did in the Wild Card game was indefensible. I know a lot of you hate Mo, but Schildt was not a good manager.
Click to expand...
Who hired him in the first place?
 
#15      
the juiceman cometh
Se Il Illini said:
Who hired him in the first place?
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I'm more commenting on the fact that the anti-Mo crowd became enamored with Schildt as soon as Mo fired him. I wasn't a fan of Schildt's managerial decisions before that happened and was happy that Mo decided to go in a different direction. But to those who hate Mo, overnight Schildt went from a bad manager who Mo hired, to a great manager that Mo fired.
 
#16      
the national
the juiceman cometh said:
No, but if I had to guess it probably had to do with bone headed decisions regarding lineups and pitching. The guy batted someone with a .308 OBP in the leadoff spot pretty much all season and his decision to put Reyes in when he did in the Wild Card game was indefensible. I know a lot of you hate Mo, but Schildt was not a good manager.
Click to expand...
I would agree that Schildt made a lot of poor decisions that left you wanting more. Sometimes it paid off, but sometimes it didnt. And when it didnā€™t work, it cost us games. The Reyes decision was probably one of the worst. I dont like Mo bc he pinches pennies but heā€™s not dumb - heā€™s just stubborn and hates to spend money.
 
#17      
the juiceman cometh
the national said:
I would agree that Schildt made a lot of poor decisions that left you wanting more. Sometimes it paid off, but sometimes it didnt. And when it didnā€™t work, it cost us games. The Reyes decision was probably one of the worst. I dont like Mo bc he pinches pennies but heā€™s not dumb - heā€™s just stubborn and hates to spend money.
Click to expand...
I hate the penny pinching too, but think that's gotta be more DeWitt than Mo. I think any GM would love to have more $$$ to get they guys he wants. If it is DeWitt that's holding back on increasing payroll, I think Mo's done a great job improving the team despite that. The Arenado trade was huge. If Mo is for some reason convinving DeWitt to spend less, then yeah, that's no good.
 
#18      
Se Il Illini
the juiceman cometh said:
Fair enough. I'm more commenting on the fact that the anti-Mo crowd became enamored with Schildt as soon as Mo fired him. I wasn't a fan of Schildt's managerial decisions before that happened and was happy that Mo decided to go in a different direction. But to those who hate Mo, overnight Schildt went from a bad manager who Mo hired, to a great manager that Mo fired.
Click to expand...
My issue is with ownership and management. When Larussa retired, an unproven manager, Mike Matheny, was handed the reins to at that time was one of the best teams in all of baseball. When that did not work out with a world series, Mike Schildt was hired. And now we have another in- house manager. He may be the best thing since Casey Stengel, but he is totally unproven. The Cardinal managers in recent decades, who have won world series have come from outside the organization. I am talking about Tony Larussa and Whitey Herzog.
 
#19      
the juiceman cometh
Se Il Illini said:
My issue is with ownership and management. When Larussa retired, an unproven manager, Mike Matheny, was handed the reins to at that time was one of the best teams in all of baseball. When that did not work out with a world series, Mike Schildt was hired. And now we have another in- house manager. He may be the best thing since Casey Stengel, but he is totally unproven. The Cardinal managers in recent decades, who have won world series have come from outside the organization. I am talking about Tony Larussa and Whitey Herzog.
Click to expand...
No disagreement on the manager selections. I'd have preferred a more proven manager in each of those hirings as well. Mo has done good things and bad things. I think he's done a good job when it comes to putting together a competitive team, but a bad job hiring managers. I just think it's funny that the most ardent Mo haters suddenly think Schildt was an amazing mangager, just because Mo fired him. If Mo had kept him, those same people would criticize that as well.
 
#20      
Se Il Illini
the juiceman cometh said:
No disagreement on the manager selections. I'd have preferred a more proven manager in each of those hirings as well. Mo has done good things and bad things. I think he's done a good job when it comes to putting together a competitive team, but a bad job hiring managers. I just think it's funny that the most ardent Mo haters suddenly think Schildt was an amazing mangager, just because Mo fired him. If Mo had kept him, those same people would criticize that as well.
Click to expand...
Fair enough and to be fair, hiring a manager can be a crap shoot. When the Cardinals brought in Joe Torre, I was thrilled. It did not work out. However, Torre had a record before coming to the Cardinals. Then the Yankees hire him, and the rest is history.
 
#21      
the juiceman cometh
Se Il Illini said:
Fair enough and to be fair, hiring a manager can be a crap shoot. When the Cardinals brought in Joe Torre, I was thrilled. It did not work out. However, Torre had a record before coming to the Cardinals. Then the Yankees hire him, and the rest is history.
Click to expand...
For sure. I wanted them to get Francona instead of Matheny. Francona got hired by Cleveland the next season and has been good, not great. I still think with our roster maybe Francona beats the Red Sox in 2013, but who know how it would have actually played out.
 
#22      
wpr
the juiceman cometh said:
For sure. I wanted them to get Francona instead of Matheny. Francona got hired by Cleveland the next season and has been good, not great. I still think with our roster maybe Francona beats the Red Sox in 2013, but who know how it would have actually played out.
Click to expand...

I was considering Francona too. The problem was he seemed to be burnt out. Maybe he needed a year off to regroup and maybe a change of venue would have been enough. "Bah-stin" fans and press are probably a little more critical than Cardinal fans. (There are jerks in every fan base.) Then again I doubt many people would have accepted whoever followed TLR.
 
#23      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Cardinals have announced 5 modern era finalists for the Cardinals Hall of Fame: https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/2022-cardinals-hall-of-fame-ballot-nominees

The candidates are:

-Steve Carlton
-George Hendrick
-Matt Holliday
-Matt Morris
-Edgar Renteria

Hendrick and Holliday are on the ballot for the first time. This is Carlton's 5th year on the ballot and Morris and Renteria's 7th year on the ballot.

Fan voting begins today and goes through April 15.
 
#25      
Boomauer
If I remember correctly Augie Busch didn't think Carlton was worth the $65,000/year the big lefty requested, plus the two were publicly feuding. Traded him(against GM Bing Devine's advice) to the Phillies for Rick Wise. Both pitchers then signed $65,000 contracts with their new clubs!šŸ˜”
Worst trade in Cards history by far.

At the time I remember a Cards announcer discussing the trade....he was trying to convince Cards fans that it was a decent trade because Wise was one of the best hitting pitchers in baseball!
 
Back