St Louis Cardinals 2025

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#101      
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Ryllini said:
That is the thing, I am in Chicagoland now so it almost easier for me to watch the Cardinals. Only time I have to switch is vs the Cubs or Sox
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At least you can actually watch them. I'm in market AND have Xfinity and can't watch them because when they brought FanDuel Sports Network back they put it in a more expensive tier that would have cost me more per month and require me to have a new cable box put in. At this, point I'll only be able to watch the nationally televised games or the games against the Cubs on Marquee since we don't get CHSN either.
 
#105      
Ryllini
illiniwil said:
unless you are in the STL region then mlb blacks you out?
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Which is just insane that it is cheaper for a guy like me to catch every mlb game let alone the Cardinals out of market than it is living in market. I doubt the Cardinals are alone in this issue.
 
#106      
gibb52
I'm right across the river from StL and get most home games on Spectrum. A few games go to Apple+ which we don't have but that's 4 or 5 games.
 
#107      
illiniwil
mlb tv has to rethink their marketing strategy, maybe share with local teams a cut of fans buying within 50 or 100 miles, but to be 200 miles away is ridiculous.
i'm in central illinois and blacked out for cards, cubs, white sox, maybe milwaukee? they're pushing fans away. then add bad ownership and management to the equation... sheesh. that's why apple tv makes no sense when they have their own network.
 
#109      
OrangeBlue98
200 miles? I live 362 miles from Busch Stadium and am still blacked out because we can get Bally's (or whatever it's called today) for the St. Louis area.

Des Moines might be the worst place to live if you're a baseball fan. We are blacked out of Royals, Cardinals, Twins, White Sox, Cubs, and even Brewers games. It's unreal.
 
#110      
jmwillini
Just curious on thoughts of BD III. Does he really care about baseball, or is this the late 80's thru 90's Cardinals where Busch the 4th only cared about soccer and didn't give a tinker's damn about the Cardinals?

Sorry, been a Cards fan for almost 60 years. No effort to improve the club in any way. Starting to remind me of the moribund 70's and dreary 90's.
 
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#111      
OrangeBlue98
jmwillini said:
Just curious on thoughts of BD III. Does he really care about baseball, or is this the late 80's thru 90's Cardinals where Busch the 4th only cared about soccer and didn't give a tinker's damn about the Cardinals?

Sorry, been a Cards fan for almost 60 years. No effort to improve the club in any way. Starting to remind me of the moribund 70's and dreary 90's.
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He cares about one thing - getting people into Ballpark Village. That's it. He's a property developer who could not care less about the baseball team or their success. His quotes over the last year or so have said as much.
 
#112      
wpr
jmwillini said:
Just curious on thoughts of BD III. Does he really care about baseball, or is this the late 80's thru 90's Cardinals where Busch the 4th only cared about soccer and didn't give a tinker's damn about the Cardinals?

Sorry, been a Cards fan for almost 60 years. No effort to improve the club in any way. Starting to remind me of the moribund 70's and dreary 90's.
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I see it more as a multi generational thing. The first generation owner was passionate about the team. The 3rd or 4th generational owner grew up with it and is immune to the glitter and glamour of professional sports. They only see the dollar and cents of the game. The Chicago Bears are another long time family owned franchise that doesn't live up to Grandpa's abilities. The Mara's with the NY Giants is another family franchise that comes to mind. There are more.
 
#113      
gibb52
OrangeBlue98 said:
He cares about one thing - getting people into Ballpark Village. That's it. He's a property developer who could not care less about the baseball team or their success. His quotes over the last year or so have said as much.
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Getting people into BPV does depend on people being down there for baseball games. If attendance drops considerably because the team sucks there will be an impact at BPV. It won't be empty of course but packed nights will be few and far between.
 
#114      
the juiceman cometh
gibb52 said:
Getting people into BPV does depend on people being down there for baseball games. If attendance drops considerably because the team sucks there will be an impact at BPV. It won't be empty of course but packed nights will be few and far between.
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Yes but the idea is to maximize profits, which means finding the balance of revenue (people coming to games and BPV) vs. expenditures (stuff like payroll) that makes the most money for ownership. If spending to win a WS exceeds the additional revenue from a WS run, then to this ownership it is not worth it. This is why ownership was perfectly content with years to being just good enough to make the playoffs -- it kept the stadium and BPV full during the regular season, while keeping expenses down.

So that's what they want to get back to -- good enough to at least be in the playoff race into August/September, for the lowest amount of money possible.
 
#115      
the juiceman cometh
wpr said:
I see it more as a multi generational thing. The first generation owner was passionate about the team. The 3rd or 4th generational owner grew up with it and is immune to the glitter and glamour of professional sports. They only see the dollar and cents of the game. The Chicago Bears are another long time family owned franchise that doesn't live up to Grandpa's abilities. The Mara's with the NY Giants is another family franchise that comes to mind. There are more.
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In a lot of ways, this is true, but also I don't think BDW Jr. cares anymore either. He won a couple titles, saw that he made just as much money when the team fell short of the pinnacle and decided he didn't want to increase spending to compete, and shifted towards winning as much as he could on the business end of things.
 
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#116      
OrangeBlue98
gibb52 said:
Getting people into BPV does depend on people being down there for baseball games. If attendance drops considerably because the team sucks there will be an impact at BPV. It won't be empty of course but packed nights will be few and far between.
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I know I didn't do a great job of explaining, but for me the DeWitts only want to be competitive enough to get people into the stadium and Ballpark Village. If the team is just competitive enough to do that, then that's what they want. They really don't care about competing for championships.

Basically, they are aiming for 85 wins and the second wildcard spot. The Seattle Mariners actually stated their long-term goal was to win about 85 games a season, so they are at least being honest about it. The Cardinals act like that's all they want, even if they give lip service about wanting to be better than that.
 
#117      
gibb52
I propose we wait for a bit before deciding if they want to win. Mo screwed up repeatedly over the last few years. The deck is being cleared of as much payroll as possible while getting a season long look at younger guys to see who is MLB level and who isn't. When Bloom assumes control and there is a ton of payroll room is when we get to see the true colors of BD2 and BD3.
 
#118      
wpr
gibb52 said:
I propose we wait for a bit before deciding if they want to win. Mo screwed up repeatedly over the last few years. The deck is being cleared of as much payroll as possible while getting a season long look at younger guys to see who is MLB level and who isn't. When Bloom assumes control and there is a ton of payroll room is when we get to see the true colors of BD2 and BD3.
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The thing is, there really isn't a salary cap. They can spend as much money as they want to. They may have to pay a tax but no one is telling them they can't spend money. They choose not to spend it. Huge difference.

For the record I am not telling them they HAVE to spend $250,000,000 or they are bad people. They have a choice just like every single fan has a choice whether or not to spend their money on a minor league produce dressed up as a major league team.
 
#119      
IlliniFan85
#120      
Se Il Illini
gibb52 said:
I propose we wait for a bit before deciding if they want to win. Mo screwed up repeatedly over the last few years. The deck is being cleared of as much payroll as possible while getting a season long look at younger guys to see who is MLB level and who isn't. When Bloom assumes control and there is a ton of payroll room is when we get to see the true colors of BD2 and BD3.
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I understand what you are saying. But why have the DeWitts sat on their hands and allowed Mozeliak to screw up repeatedly ( your words)?
 
#121      
the juiceman cometh
gibb52 said:
I propose we wait for a bit before deciding if they want to win. Mo screwed up repeatedly over the last few years. The deck is being cleared of as much payroll as possible while getting a season long look at younger guys to see who is MLB level and who isn't. When Bloom assumes control and there is a ton of payroll room is when we get to see the true colors of BD2 and BD3.
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Mo gets a lot of flack but honestly he kept the team competitive for a long time on a tight budget. It's impossible to do that forever. In the time Mo has been GM the Cards have the 7th most postseason wins. Every team above the Cards on this list consistently has a higher payroll than us.

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#122      
Se Il Illini
wpr said:
The thing is, there really isn't a salary cap. They can spend as much money as they want to. They may have to pay a tax but no one is telling them they can't spend money. They choose not to spend it. Huge difference.

For the record I am not telling them they HAVE to spend $250,000,000 or they are bad people. They have a choice just like every single fan has a choice whether or not to spend their money on a minor league produce dressed up as a major league team.
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Most of you know this. But when teams receive their portion of the tax money, those monies are supposed to be used for salaries.
 
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#123      
Se Il Illini
the juiceman cometh said:
Mo gets a lot of flack but honestly he kept the team competitive for a long time on a tight budget. It's impossible to do that forever. In the time Mo has been GM the Cards have the 7th most postseason wins. Every team above the Cards on this list consistently has a higher payroll than us.

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I think when you evaluate Mozeliak, we have to look at the Larussa years and compare them to the post Larussa years.
 
#124      
the juiceman cometh
Se Il Illini said:
I think when you evaluate Mozeliak, we have to look at the Larussa years and compare them to the post Larussa years.
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Why? Was LaRussa putting those rosters together? I don't accept the premise but I ran the results anyway and here's what it came up with - not all that different. Moved from #7 to #8 and other than the Royals, again it's all teams that outspend us doing better than us.

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#125      
gibb52
2008-2014 Mo was very good. 2015-present Mo has not been good. Time to move on to new leadership. The Cardinals will never spend like the Yankees or Dodgers. They don't have the revenue base that larger market teams have. They can spend more than they have spent but expecting top 5 payroll numbers is just not realistic. Gotta be a lot smarter than they've been lately.
 
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