I'm sure
Talen Horton-Tucker commits to Iowa State
I'm sure
Does anyone know much about team Rose that THT switched to? are they up and coming and challenge for MIF in the future?
just curious if the MIF dominance will fade...and if Irvins are fearful?
just curious if the MIF dominance will fade...and if Irvins are fearful?
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Couple things:
1.) I feel bad for THT, but not sure he was a completely passive victim here. He could have committed long ago and let Ayo react to that, and,
2.) The talk from Ayo's Dad about winning rings a little hollow now. This was a position of need for us. Don't think anybody is saying we didn't need THT.
Chicago politics has screwed more than just our basketball team. This isn't the end of our momentum. Lou's UofI formula for success is lock up downstate and get our share from Chicago. In all fairness to some of our recent coaches, the downstate talent had dried up a bit, but seems to be back now. Ayo is our share.
1.) I feel bad for THT, but not sure he was a completely passive victim here. He could have committed long ago and let Ayo react to that, and,
2.) The talk from Ayo's Dad about winning rings a little hollow now. This was a position of need for us. Don't think anybody is saying we didn't need THT.
Chicago politics has screwed more than just our basketball team. This isn't the end of our momentum. Lou's UofI formula for success is lock up downstate and get our share from Chicago. In all fairness to some of our recent coaches, the downstate talent had dried up a bit, but seems to be back now. Ayo is our share.
I'm hung up on the why, really.
Assuming the animosity from MIF towards THT was the reason for THT ending up elsewhere, it just doesn't make logical sense to me.
Logically, MIF should want as many good players to attend schools they steer recruits to as possible. MIF should realize that it looks good to send recruits (Ayo) to schools that win - and win by attracting good talent.
If MIF prefers their 5 star PG to play on a less good team because of a ridiculous old (and personal and petty) feud that seems to have little to do with said 5 star PG, should Illinois really be trusting that MIF will come through for us in years to come? Seems like they've proven to be pretty self serving...
Assuming the animosity from MIF towards THT was the reason for THT ending up elsewhere, it just doesn't make logical sense to me.
Logically, MIF should want as many good players to attend schools they steer recruits to as possible. MIF should realize that it looks good to send recruits (Ayo) to schools that win - and win by attracting good talent.
If MIF prefers their 5 star PG to play on a less good team because of a ridiculous old (and personal and petty) feud that seems to have little to do with said 5 star PG, should Illinois really be trusting that MIF will come through for us in years to come? Seems like they've proven to be pretty self serving...
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It appears the comments reflect a divide between those who hanker for winning at all costs and those who don’t, those who are willing to compromise to achieve that end and because the world can be squalid and those who refuse. In my opinion, winning can’t cure everything. And it certainly doesn’t take the place of integrity. And what, pray tell, does this have to do with any specific school or the talent it has or hasn’t provided to the University ? Is that how we judge our commitment to a recruit ? It has to do with a young man we courted and who at the end of the day desired to attend the University and we yanked a scholarship offer (on the day of his commitment announcement, no less) in subservience to the dictates of another recruit and/or Chicago AAU interests. I understand the young man was tearing up at his announcement. He’s not the only one. (Maybe Nick Anderson and Deon Thomas ?)
Yes, I’m an old timer — with what might be deemed old-fashioned notions. I can tolerate losing. I don’t like feeling sordid. If that makes me "high and mighty", so be it.
Yes, I’m an old timer — with what might be deemed old-fashioned notions. I can tolerate losing. I don’t like feeling sordid. If that makes me "high and mighty", so be it.
FWIW, I am not an "old-timer" (well, I haven't been a fan for quite 50 years yet), and I mostly agree with your view here.
I can't really place blame on coaching staff - a) because I don't purport to know the real story, and b) I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation. Seems like they were put in a bad place.
Still, as a fan, it feels icky.
I personally think this is Underwood's fault. There was plenty of smoke about Ayo & Horton-Tucker (Denied by many on this board). The Illini coaches should have known that. Once Ayo committed the offer to Horton-Tucker should have been pulled.
Agreed, to pull it the last day was classless.
On the other hand, THT could have committed to the Illini & Ayo could uncommit & I promise you the yelling on this board would have been even greater than it is now.
Pulling the offer when it was pulled was the mistake. It should have been pulled before his OV last weekend.
As for the pulling of an offer going national, every year coaches pull offers to players, some who have already verbally committed. The football coach at Michigan has done this on several occasions.
In a way, some of the same people, who on occasion have wanted to run off our players so we could get a more promising recruit in here seem a little hypocritical
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well put innocent primate.
It is pretty interesting how divisive this issue is. there seem to be very few posters that are middle of the road on this. Ill be rooting for THT and have cautious hope that Ayo will become as loyal to Illini success over time as he is currently to AAU coach antics and loyalty in defending past MIF grudges.. ref. irvin tweet before THT announcement... " all in or not?"
I sense now that Ayo is more loyal to MIF than he is to our team, illini recruiting and our future strength....expect that to change after he gets to campus.
Amen brother, (or sister).
hooraybeer
- Pittsburgh, PA
THT tearing up after he announced just didn't feel right and made me take a step back. wishing the absolute best for THT and family.
I've already seen Ayo recruiting Okoro on Twitter and he has to help on Miller too, as does Da'Monte.
IllFanInMi
I
Guest
Pulling the offer to me wouldn't be a story worthy of national attention, but doing it under the premise an AAU coach dictated the action could be a story a national guy would love to publish.
LJ22 — Of course, I’m assuming what has been widely reported: the scholarship offer was rescinded at the insistence of another recruit’s family and/or Chicago AAU interests. It’s a power game, a game played by those who have only their own selfish and not the University’s best interests at heart. (“Don’t we lose out on a recruit we wanted ?”) And if the facts aren’t as I assume, I’ll pull an Emily Litella (“Never mind.”) and go softly into the night.
And in my view, it didn’t place the staff in a “bad place”, not ethically. You simply say, “We’ve recruited and offered a scholarship to this young man and he’s ready to accept in good faith and that’s that — the University and the Athletic Department won’t be held prisoner to or subservient to the dictates of another recruit’s family or Chicago AAU interests. If you have a problem with that, you’re free to go elsewhere with our best wishes.” Had the staff taken that position, I’d be 100% behind them, whoever they lost as a result and whatever the outcome. That, in my view, would be taking a principled stand. What kind of principled stand was taken ? It happens all the time ? What, exactly, doesn’t that rationalize ?
And in my view, it didn’t place the staff in a “bad place”, not ethically. You simply say, “We’ve recruited and offered a scholarship to this young man and he’s ready to accept in good faith and that’s that — the University and the Athletic Department won’t be held prisoner to or subservient to the dictates of another recruit’s family or Chicago AAU interests. If you have a problem with that, you’re free to go elsewhere with our best wishes.” Had the staff taken that position, I’d be 100% behind them, whoever they lost as a result and whatever the outcome. That, in my view, would be taking a principled stand. What kind of principled stand was taken ? It happens all the time ? What, exactly, doesn’t that rationalize ?
Agreed. And, BTW, the coaches did know.
My new hope for Illinois athletics is not a championship of any sort, but rather that our coaches and leaders stop doing stupid sh!t. If we're not going to win big, can't we at least look smart, professional, and respectable? Is that too much to ask of the highest paid employees in the state?
The kid's going to a great school and an up and coming program with two other Chicago area kids, so I'm happy for him. I've always rooted for the Cyclones in that league.
So what ever happened to Underwood's mantra that he only wants players who WANT to play at Illinois. THT obviously wanted to play for Illinois. AYO it turns out, maybe not so much. We should have called team Ayo/Irvin's bluff and let them be the ones to look like childish, petty, prima donnas if he were to de-commit. Everyone would still know we did the right thing, stood by our commitment, and retained our honor.
Instead we look like cut-throat mercenaries willing to risk all of that for one fickle recruit.
If you were a parent watching THT cry today, would you ever send your child here to play for this program ?? How can we ever expect our word to mean anything again ?
The sick thing is, even if Underwood's team does start winning games, I won't be able to enjoy it knowing this is how they got there.
I'm a 4th generation Illini grad who shook Brad Underwood's hand as he stepped off that plane the day he was hired. I had not been this excited about Illinois basketball in over a decade, but no more. Scoring more points on the court isn't really "winning" if it is built on crushing kids' dreams to appease adults who only have their own interests at heart.
We keep saying the best players in Illinois need to stay loyal to their state school. Well, Loyalty is a 2-way street and U of I basketball just demonstrated to the world that we are nothing but hypocrites in that regard. I have never been this ashamed of my school.
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Instead we look like cut-throat mercenaries willing to risk all of that for one fickle recruit.
If you were a parent watching THT cry today, would you ever send your child here to play for this program ?? How can we ever expect our word to mean anything again ?
The sick thing is, even if Underwood's team does start winning games, I won't be able to enjoy it knowing this is how they got there.
I'm a 4th generation Illini grad who shook Brad Underwood's hand as he stepped off that plane the day he was hired. I had not been this excited about Illinois basketball in over a decade, but no more. Scoring more points on the court isn't really "winning" if it is built on crushing kids' dreams to appease adults who only have their own interests at heart.
We keep saying the best players in Illinois need to stay loyal to their state school. Well, Loyalty is a 2-way street and U of I basketball just demonstrated to the world that we are nothing but hypocrites in that regard. I have never been this ashamed of my school.
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Mr. 29 post man, the stand that was taken was welcome to the big boy university of recruiting. Life moves on. This will be a non story in a week and everyone will be salivating at the next big recruitment.
This absolutely stinks. I feel so bad for this kid if he truly wanted to play here. I hope he torches us if we ever play them, we deserve it. Ayo certainly isn't to blame either, this is just the stink of Chicago.
Because post count matters, or because the Loyalty interface gives accurate post counts? :thumb:
It also feels icky to me to say the staff was "ethically" wrong here. Maybe they feel like they will do more "ethically" good things by remaining on staff at U of I, which may not have happened if they had taken THT and Ayo went elsewhere, or if they had alienated the MIF program. Or, perhaps, they feel that they are honoring their word by signing a contract with a university to win basketball games, and that commitment is more important than this specific situation.
I don't know - but that is the point. I don't know. It gives me a bad feeling, but I'm not going to judge the situation as if I know all the facts. I'd rather assume essentially no bad actors here (though MIF looks the worst, quite frankly).
Absolutely perfectly sums it all up.
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At the risk of speaking for others, I do think that if the rumor here is true, it does represent a fundamental shift in some fans' feelings towards the program which will not be changed by the next big recruitment.