Tennessee's Ziegler sues for 5th year of eligibility

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#51      
Travis1173
Regarding Ziegler. I went to and graduated from Tennessee (I grew up an Illinois fan). He wants the extra year because he loves playing for Rick Barnes and partially wants to give more back to Tennessee fans. I’ll remind you guys the Tennessee fan base ran a GoFundMe that raised over $300,000 for his family when their home burned down. He also tore his ACL towards the end of the 23-24 season so missed the tournament. A bunch of guys got covid years for that exact same reason (the tournament got canceled).

That all being said, I’m in the move on camp. Z played his 4 years and he was a fun player for Tennessee basketball. But it’s time to move on, for both parties and he should be able to make a roster in Europe as he’s a decent point guard.
 
#52      
the juiceman cometh
Travis1173 said:
I can answer your aged-out question. When my high school rugby team arrived at state championships we were informed our outside center was ineligible because he had just turned 19 and according to Tennessee high school rugby rules, you had to be under the age of 19. We had to play without him. He actually was a junior.
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Do you think that was a good result? Do you think the decision had a significant impact on player safety?
 
#53      
artist3
Travis1173 said:
He also tore his ACL towards the end of the 23-24 season so missed the tournament. A bunch of guys got covid years for that exact same reason (the tournament got canceled).
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Not to nitpick your post because I can sympathize with his situation, but that’s actually not what happened. All the seniors from the 19-20 season (I.E. Kipper, Feliz for Illinois) had to just move on. Then all the players from the 20-21 season got to play that year for free.
 
#54      
Travis1173
the juiceman cometh said:
Do you think that was a good result? Do you think the decision had a significant impact on player safety?
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Absolutely not. I remember thinking at the time it was unfair to us. We got our !!! kicked and would have anyway, but we worked hard all season and he gets declared ineligible at state?

Who was the rule supposed to punish is the question I continually go back to.

I understand the need for a high school age limit, but 19 isn’t the answer.

Furthering the discussion, I don’t think an age limit at the college level is right. The rule is 5 years to play 4. If you’re good enough athletically, you are going right out of high school. The Chris Weinke’s, Brandon Weedon’s, etc of the world are not common occurrences and there’s a reason we generally see these guys at “non-contact initiating” positions. I know what my body feels like at 36. Can’t imagine trying to go play college football right now (or even go back to play college rugby again).
 
#55      
Travis1173
artist3 said:
Not to nitpick your post because I can sympathize with his situation, but that’s actually not what happened. All the seniors from the 19-20 season (I.E. Kipper, Feliz for Illinois) had to just move on. Then all the players from the 20-21 season got to play that year for free.
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That’s right. It was the 20-21 season that was free. Man, getting Feliz back would’ve been fun!
 
#56      
Calvin
Travis1173 said:
Regarding Ziegler. I went to and graduated from Tennessee (I grew up an Illinois fan). He wants the extra year because he loves playing for Rick Barnes and partially wants to give more back to Tennessee fans. I’ll remind you guys the Tennessee fan base ran a GoFundMe that raised over $300,000 for his family when their home burned down. He also tore his ACL towards the end of the 23-24 season so missed the tournament. A bunch of guys got covid years for that exact same reason (the tournament got canceled).

That all being said, I’m in the move on camp. Z played his 4 years and he was a fun player for Tennessee basketball. But it’s time to move on, for both parties and he should be able to make a roster in Europe as he’s a decent point guard.
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Who can blame them for wanting another year in college? They absolutely have an advantage over incoming freshman, and the money in college bball is life-changing.

Thinking ahead, I wonder how the sport will adapt. If freshman outside the top 50 or so are almost always behind older players that came in with lower potential, is a gap year going to become more common? With 7 figure income on the line for college players, working their eligibility for maximum income at the college level makes a lot of sense.
 
#58      
AZILL
IlliniFan42 said:
www.on3.com

U.S. Department of Justice, NCAA to Zakai Zeigler: Get a job!

Get a job, Zakai Zeigler. It's time. The NCAA already thought so, and now, the U.S. Department of Justice agrees.
www.on3.com www.on3.com
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I have 0 problem with this. Someone, somewhere, NCAA, College teams, .gov, has to put their foot down and start drawing lines, setting concrete barriers and guidelines on this exploding situation (NIL, Years of Eligibility, Student/Employee/mercenary). We have to start somewhere, right?
 
#59      
Red77sng
steelmen72 said:
I'm so tired of these guys getting 5 years to play. Go on with your life. Rather you play 4, 5 or 6 years your draft status won't change. I was against players getting an extra year because of covid because most players still played 25 -31 games during that season.
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happy drag race GIF by Robert E Blackmon
 
#60      
phats22
AZILL said:
I have 0 problem with this. Someone, somewhere, NCAA, College teams, .gov, has to put their foot down and start drawing lines, setting concrete barriers and guidelines on this exploding situation (NIL, Years of Eligibility, Student/Employee/mercenary). We have to start somewhere, right?
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AND, we weren't the index case which is nice 🤣
 
#63      
PepeSilvia
Calvin said:
Who can blame them for wanting another year in college? They absolutely have an advantage over incoming freshman, and the money in college bball is life-changing.

Thinking ahead, I wonder how the sport will adapt. If freshman outside the top 50 or so are almost always behind older players that came in with lower potential, is a gap year going to become more common? With 7 figure income on the line for college players, working their eligibility for maximum income at the college level makes a lot of sense.
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I don't blame him at all. He just saw a ton of guys get play for 5 years.

Ziegler could get a pretty life altering sum for one more year and I'd imagine its a pretty incredible atmosphere to play basketball at Tennessee and get another shot at the tourney.

Ziegler can probably go play overseas but I doubt the atmosphere will ever match the collegiate one(some of those European clubs get pretty wild though) and he won't make as much either. You also have to deal with moving abroad and likely living somewhere that you don't speak the primary language.

All that being said the NCAA has to draw the line somewhere and I think it will be better when these 5th, 6th, and 7th year guys get filtered out though it seems like NAIA and juco guys get 4 full years now which seems a bit insane.
 
#64      
RabidDawgClassic
I think where he stands a chance of winning is with the NCAA’s seemingly arbitrary methods for determining which athletes get approved for an extra year and which ones don’t. Up til now it’s been a crapshoot as to whether an individual athlete will be granted that extra year, and the courts generally punish organizations for that lack of clarity.
 
#65      
Calvin
Are there other sports where you stand to make significantly more by prolonging your college eligibility over moving on?
 
#66      
the juiceman cometh
RabidDawgClassic said:
I think where he stands a chance of winning is with the NCAA’s seemingly arbitrary methods for determining which athletes get approved for an extra year and which ones don’t. Up til now it’s been a crapshoot as to whether an individual athlete will be granted that extra year, and the courts generally punish organizations for that lack of clarity.
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I agree that the arbitrariness is going to be the issue and I think the NCAA will have to ultimately establish a set-in-stone rule with no exceptions, like 5 years play 5 (which will eventually come back to suck for a sympathetic player at some future point who has to miss like the equivalent of 3 seasons due to varying injuries).

But I'm still not bullish on Ziegler's chances because he's not going to be able to show that the arbitrariness hurts him. I don't think he'll be able to find a single example of a player who played as much as he has and got a waiver. Probably won't be able to show anyone even close.
 
#67      
RabidDawgClassic
the juiceman cometh said:
I agree that the arbitrariness is going to be the issue and I think the NCAA will have to ultimately establish a set-in-stone rule with no exceptions, like 5 years play 5 (which will eventually come back to suck for a sympathetic player at some future point who has to miss like the equivalent of 3 seasons due to varying injuries).

But I'm still not bullish on Ziegler's chances because he's not going to be able to show that the arbitrariness hurts him. I don't think he'll be able to find a single example of a player who played as much as he has and got a waiver. Probably won't be able to show anyone even close.
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Oh, I’m not bullish on his chances either… just that if he does have any chance, it’ll be with the arbitrariness angle.
 
#69      
AZILL
As expected by most everyone...
 
#72      
Illini2010-11
AZILL said:
As expected by most everyone...
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It should not be a surprise that the preliminary injunction was denied, especially considering that there are a couple months until the season -- it is nearly impossible to show irreparable harm at this point, which is generally required for a preliminary injunction to succeed. An injunction would have caused more harm than good, so this part of the process was more of the true longshot. Ziegler still has a chance to succeed in the ultimate lawsuit, but definitely nowhere close to even money odds. I still suspect that there will be some form of settlement in the end, as NIL has thrown a true wrinkle into the equation when it comes to eligibility (and the NCAA is already considering changing the rules).
 
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