Oh god. I hate reading this.
Terrence Shannon Jr. suspended
- Status
Again, too early to say that. Not looking great, but they are still gathering information
I suppose I should wait until the Whitman statement, but my disappointment will be so much greater if I hold out hope that he comes back just to have it get crushed again. Pragmatism lends me to accept it as truth. But, after drinking a few beers to try to aid in falling asleep, I’ll hold out a little longer for the sake of trusting my insiders.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I mean, realistically what even are the extremes here?? Worst case is obvious … TSJ is genuinely guilty, our image of him as a great guy is shattered, a young woman suffered a horrific crime, and oh by the way (as in, far less important) the team and program tank.
But I’m depressed thinking about what is even like the 1% chance best case.
I guess it’s TSJ is innocent and these charges are SOMEHOW dropped in such a convincing fashion that he gets to play again this year?? But he still has to live with this awful experience, however short term.The “bottom” 99% of scenarios below that second one would be tragic, each one worse than the last. Such awful news, but as others have said … hopefully justice prevails and all involved find peace? Again … this is just a bad situation.
Not to detract from your point, but just to clarify what I've pieced together as an amateur:
Basics:
The alleged event occurred in September and allegations were made that same month
We don't know much, but can assume that allegations had some formality (for example, through a police office, hospital, or school)
It's been stated that TJ has been cooperating with law enforcement since then, implying that a police report was filed in September
The police investigation for the current charges was conducted in a timeframe between September 9th and December 5th
On December 5th, the DA's office filed the formal complaint (aka pressed charges) with the accuser listed as a witness
It's a bit convoluted after that, but:
It appears that an arrest warrant was issued on December 27th (yesterday)
Terrence traveled to Kansas on the 28th and surrendered to be jailed
He immediately posted bail and has already returned to CU
It might be that the DA's office was slow in getting a warrant signed, or somehow Terrence and his lawyer were somehow not notified or served until yesterday. When he (the lawyer) said that charges were filed yesterday, that's inaccurate based on public documents. I personally think it's a bit of spin to avoid using the words "arrested" and "warrant", but I don't really know anything.
I hope that some experienced people can weigh in. The list of witnesses (one nurse, one anon, two officers, one detective) implies to me that a fairly basic process took place. TO SPECULATE, this is what it may have looked like if the accuser went to the health department and disclosed her (presuming female) story to a nurse, who called the police. Or, perhaps the accuser went to a police station and a nurse conducted a "rape kit" exam there. Following the report (and presumably fast-tracked kit processing), a police detective could have found a friend to either put the accuser and the accused together, been one of the first people to hear the story from the accused, or both. That would account for everyone listed.
By every single anecdotal account, what's been said, what's not been said, and the plan for Josh to speak tomorrow, it looks like the DIA is standing behind TSJ. I am as new to this as anybody else here, but I imagine that they can't come out and say they believe he didn't commit a crime. I would be shocked if they have waited a day to kick him off the team right before tomorrow's game. I expect them to reiterate TSJ's status, their commitment to cooperation and the process, and at most a hint for a best-case scenario. I don't think for one second that they're throwing the story out with the trash on a Friday. If they spoke now, it would be an underprepared canned statement in a hurricane. They'll work hard today and speak tomorrow when everyone is listening.
What a f***ing day. I don't know what "the best" is, but I'm hoping for it.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Sick to my stomach
Very interested after seeing some insiders posts to see what information comes to light these next few days. I feel gutted for Terrence if this is a false allegation and he loses out on a bright future. If he’s guilty he deserves what he gets but until he’s proven guilty i for one stand behind Terrence 100% he’s a Fighting Illini legend in the making and from the few interactions I’ve had with him he’s a genuinely good human being. I’ve got his back until he’s proven guilty!
I'm not sure how you can rationally think otherwise.
Short of the DA doing an about face and dropping the charges, there's a process that comes with this and it's not a quick one. These cases can take months, if not longer.
The University is not going to allow him to put the jersey on unless this is completely cleaned up. That's not going to be anywhere in the near future.
As much as we love this year's team, BU and JW have a program to run and zero tolerance means....zero tolerance. For as much as BU pounds the "culture" drum...he's got to back that up right now. Having this surrounding and hanging over his guys isn't providing an ideal culture.
Let's take it a step further than that. As much as TSJ loves his team, he only has three months left before he moves on from the University to the professional ranks anyway. With all due respect to our program, that's the future that he needs to think about. The big picture is that he needs this cleaned up by May, once the draft process starts. He's going to have to scrub his name on top of proving he belongs from a talent perspective.
I have to believe that he's going to want to be around his family and vice versa. With first semester in the books, going home and surrounding himself around loves ones and working out on his own could be the answer for him?
It's also could be the answer for BU when it comes to his team. They're going to have enough distractions as it is. He has to reboot this whole season, mid season with pieces that may or may not fit together anymore. 24 hours ago, he had roles perfectly defined and had a team that was operating beautifully. Now....he has to have his team mentality checked in to get through tomorrow's game, then plod forward. They can't be getting questions daily on TSJ.
The situation is what it is at this point. Illinois basketball has to look out for Illinois basketball and TSJ has to look out for TSJ. Remember when Skyy went home last year due to "personal reasons"? We all knew he wasn't coming back. If I had to put my money down on an outcome, it'd be TSJ being "suspended", with his apartment being emptied within the week or two before the students come back.
I hope that I'm wrong, but it's a scenario that ultimately makes sense. I hope I'm wrong for my own selfish reasons, but from a situational standpoint....it seems pretty likely to be the outcome.
A third alternative could be a plea bargain.
I'm not a lawyer but that weird arrest warrant sure seemed to be worded to try to encourage a quick plea to a misdemeanor in exchange for dropping the felony charge.
"COUNT 1 = serious felony with 11+ year minimum, ALTERNATE COUNT 1 = misdemeanor one year in jail max." ALTERNATE COUNT? why not count #2, that some weird Kansas thing? And why not any charges in between those two extremes (and that is about as extreme a difference as you can get)
Any of you lawyers who post here ever seen anything like that? Seems very strange to me.
If you have evidence of the first part, why bother with the second part? IIRC a DA can always plea down the charges no matter what the arrest warrant says or just drop them if the accuser recants. I don't get it.
And if he's guilty, he deserves to become a felon obviously and none of this matters beyond that, but something seems seriously off with all this.
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Okay, I really wish I wasn’t reading into Lville’s posts with orange colored glasses… but I am… so…
Fan base being in massive uproar - if Shannon is guilty/truly committed the crime, what’s there to be a massive uproar about? Sucks, but can’t be upset that justice is being served.
Too early to tell about it being resolved before Feb/March… if he’s guilty, then resolution before Feb/March doesn’t mean anything, because he’s going to jail or at the very least (no rape, but SA) he’s not going to be back on the team.
Fan base being in massive uproar - if Shannon is guilty/truly committed the crime, what’s there to be a massive uproar about? Sucks, but can’t be upset that justice is being served.
Too early to tell about it being resolved before Feb/March… if he’s guilty, then resolution before Feb/March doesn’t mean anything, because he’s going to jail or at the very least (no rape, but SA) he’s not going to be back on the team.
Yep same here, guess we'll find out before too long.
I don’t know if this is any help, but I sense a lot of people following this story are vastly overestimating the significance of the felony complaint. It’s a formal charging document, the purpose of which is to simply to commence the criminal proceeding. It contains little information other than the offense charged and the time and place of occurrence. I don’t know anything about criminal procedure in Kansas, but in most states the prosecution will have a certain number of days following arraignment to present evidence at a preliminary hearing to demonstrate reasonable cause that the accused person committed the charged felony offense. Reasonable cause is not a high bar though. The prosecution just has to show there is a basis for the charges. A supporting deposition from the victim will likely suffice. From there the prosecution must present the case to a grand jury, who will vote to return an indictment if they conclude there is probable cause. Again, not a super high evidentiary bar, but the prosecution will at least have to produce sufficient evidence to support every element of every charge included in the indictment. And THEN you move on to the discovery stage, pretrial motions, pretrial hearings, etc.
I think the main point, in any event, is that DA is not going to file the felony complaint unless they feel ready to present the case to the grand jury, because filing the complaint starts the clock for speedy trial and other purposes. So whatever evidence they believe they can get, they likely already have.
I'm speechless.
Statute | Kansas State Legislature
kslegislature.org
I’m not a lawyer but I looked into this and it is interesting actually that the alternative charge would not be AGGRAVATED sexual battery (felony). If someone rapes another, then it is certainly aggravated sexual battery as well, not just the misdemeanor…
The reason for both charges is obviously if the rape doesn’t stick then the other one can, but I am surprised that the second charge is not aggravated battery. Or that there are not three charges (rape, aggravated battery, battery).
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
… wut.
EDIT:
1. I can’t even tell if that’s real.
2. I’m not a lawyer.
3. If telling a white lie about yourself and engaging in consensual sexual activity is rape, then 70% of people are felons.
WTF did I just read.
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Wow. This sort of lines up with 0440’s comment (I think, it was an insider) saying “have you ever been at a tailgate?”
I am not going to comment any further on this outside of the fact that IF is the true, the uproar that was mentioned, will indeed commence.
Nobody has ANY clue if that is factual, so it should be left there at this point.
This kinda reminds me of the lady who couldn't hang up when Coach Tucker was phone sexxing her.
redwingillini11
White and Sixth
- North Aurora
he was wearing Newton's jersey that day, was he not?
Phone sexing a sexual assault victim as the head coach at MSU probably isn’t a good call whether she had the option to hang up or not. Glad he’s gone.
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