The QB position - how we got here

RedRocksIllini · Nov 7, 2017

IlliniJim20 said:
I don't think anyone is giving Lovie an infinite pass. I believe most who support him realize we are playing a tremendous amount of freshmen and true freshmen, so are giving this year a pass.

Next year, speaking for myself, I expect improvement while not necessarily a bowl game. Hopeful for one, but not expecting it. i would think a four win season is reasonable expectations knowing we are still young, albeit slightly more experienced and mght not have solved our QB situation.

In two years, a bowl game is the minimum. It is not unreasonable to even expect contending for west title, depending on quality of other teams in west. If like now, definitely expect to be contending.

After that, bowl game should be minimal expectations very year, and even west title contention expectation. Not just for Lovie, but for Illnois in general. Need to raise level of expectations.

I think I'm in total agreement with you on expectations. I just hope next year is not a repeat of this one because, in this age of immediate gratification, it's going to make things much harder to continue to pursue the current path.

Back to the QB discussion (sorry for the sidetrack). It seems pretty clear to me that only one of the 3 QBs in the current rotation has any hope of leading this team to real improvement. If Cam is not the clear cut number 1 next season, then I sure hope it's one of the freshmen. I find it perplexing that Cam gets yanked when he gets us to the red zone. Yes, George did throw one touchdown pass. But in exchange, Cam missed that experience. At this point in the process, that strikes me as a very poor trade.

Illiniaaron · Nov 7, 2017

RedRocksIllini said:
I think I'm in total agreement with you on expectations. I just hope next year is not a repeat of this one because, in this age of immediate gratification, it's going to make things much harder to continue to pursue the current path.

Back to the QB discussion (sorry for the sidetrack). It seems pretty clear to me that only one of the 3 QBs in the current rotation has any hope of leading this team to real improvement. If Cam is not the clear cut number 1 next season, then I sure hope it's one of the freshmen. I find it perplexing that Cam gets yanked when he gets us to the red zone. Yes, George did throw one touchdown pass. But in exchange, Cam missed that experience. At this point in the process, that strikes me as a very poor trade.

This + 100. Also in my previous posts I'm not advocating firing Smith if there isn't improvement next year. Heck, I would keep him on for his entire 5 year contract for the sake of giving the program some continuity. I predicted a 2-10 season before this year started. I was just voicing what I thought we should reasonably expect for 2018.

Spoon House · Nov 8, 2017

IlliniJim20 said:
After that, bowl game should be minimal expectations very year, and even west title contention expectation. Not just for Lovie, but for Illnois in general. Need to raise level of expectations.

I'd settle for bowl eligibility every year. The Big Ten, and college football in general, can be pretty dog-eat-dog, and conference title contention year in and year out is very difficult. Impossible, even.

But bowling every year, sure.

BZuppke · Nov 9, 2017

I agree with the sentiment of playing Cam 100%. Let him continue to get the experience. He’s our best option currently on the roster now and for next year.

IlliniJim20 · Nov 9, 2017

Spoon House said:
I'd settle for bowl eligibility every year. The Big Ten, and college football in general, can be pretty dog-eat-dog, and conference title contention year in and year out is very difficult. Impossible, even.

But bowling every year, sure.

To me title contention means "in the picture." Win the west some year's.I know we cannot actually win it every year, but at least make it to this weekend before being eliminated, if that makes sense?

Bowl games should be the minimal expectations, wth 6-6 being considered a bad year, but still a bowl.

Top 3-4 in the west each, most years. Big title game at least once in each player's career. Win the big once or twice in my lifetime

I have said it before, no reason we cannot do what Wisconsin is doing. Wisconsin as the goal, build from there even to UM ( historically) or OSU level. I'll even admit, Iowa success should be our floor.

RedRocksIllini · Nov 9, 2017

BZuppke said:
I agree with the sentiment of playing Cam 100%. Let him continue to get the experience. He’s our best option currently on the roster now and for next year.

Not only is yanking him in red zone situations keeping him from gaining that experience, it sends a message: "Hey, kid. We don't trust you when it matters." To me, that's the part I don't get. Why do that to any player?

IlliniFisherman · Nov 9, 2017

RedRocksIllini said:
Not only is yanking him in red zone situations keeping him from gaining that experience, it sends a message: "Hey, kid. We don't trust you when it matters." To me, that's the part I don't get. Why do that to any player?

Playing QB is about finding rhythm too. By changing QB in the red zone you take moment away from one player and put another in whose not in the zone. Doesnt make sense

lexwaldez · Nov 9, 2017

RedRocksIllini said:
I hear what you're saying and I do think he's heading in the right direction. But I don't think you can just keep throwing season after season away and shrug it off as rebuilding. At some point, you have to show some progress by winning some games. Otherwise, you're just rebuilding a team that only knows how to lose. If next year is a repeat of this year, I think you're kidding yourself if you think there isn't going to be some pretty strong noise towards change. Just to be clear, I agree with you on giving him a solid 4 years, no matter what. But I have no say in who is the coach and I think another year of being the conference doormat is going to get Whitman a lot of calls and conversations from donors that he'd rather not have.

Correct. You can't throw season after season, but you can give him four (he started at a weird time so I give him a first year mulligan - doesn't count). The fourth season with three years of recruiting and you can have a conversation like this. If next year is a repeat of this year, and I don't think it will look like this year, you still can't say anything. Ron Freaking Gunther and Co ran this entire establish into the dirt and just kept going. We're hamstrung with debt, mediocre facilities that were built by the fun police to make sure students don't show up football/tailgates, a revolving door for coaching, academic eligibility requirements to make things unnecessarily more difficult, and a fan base that is absolutely horrible. This is not to say it can't get better. This is to say we need to stop repeating the same, stupid mistakes. Simple as that. That @$$&@# Guenther makes a cool $500,000 per YEAR in retirement. That guy just keeps giving. So... next year.

UIGrad03 · Nov 9, 2017

IlliniFisherman said:
Playing QB is about finding rhythm too. By changing QB in the red zone you take moment away from one player and put another in whose not in the zone. DoesnÂ’t make sense

I was screaming at the TV. The only acceptable reason for taking Thomas out at that point was if he was unable to play for some reason.

People will be fairly patient with a known rebuild but the staff could certainly help themselves some if they could stop doing some of that nonsense and clean up some of sloppy penalties and mental mistakes. I get the talent deficiencies and inexperience, but we don’t look like a
Well coached team in a few facets.

icengineer · Nov 10, 2017

lexwaldez said:
That @$$&@# Guenther makes a cool $500,000 per YEAR in retirement. That guy just keeps giving. So... next year.

Does he really? Wow, that pitifully amazing....

RedRocksIllini · Nov 10, 2017

lexwaldez said:
Correct. You can't throw season after season, but you can give him four (he started at a weird time so I give him a first year mulligan - doesn't count). The fourth season with three years of recruiting and you can have a conversation like this. If next year is a repeat of this year, and I don't think it will look like this year, you still can't say anything. Ron Freaking Gunther and Co ran this entire establish into the dirt and just kept going. We're hamstrung with debt, mediocre facilities that were built by the fun police to make sure students don't show up football/tailgates, a revolving door for coaching, academic eligibility requirements to make things unnecessarily more difficult, and a fan base that is absolutely horrible. This is not to say it can't get better. This is to say we need to stop repeating the same, stupid mistakes. Simple as that. That @$$&@# Guenther makes a cool $500,000 per YEAR in retirement. That guy just keeps giving. So... next year.

Right on. I really hope people can remember this if next year goes poorly. (I honestly think we'll start to see the corner turned sometime in the middle of next year.) But it is helpful to remember just how much is working against any coach here. And let's not forget that, against all odds, we replaced RG with an AD who was even worse and let him dig the hole even deeper for four awful years.

BWBW · Nov 10, 2017

RedRocksIllini said:
Right on. And let's not forget that, against all odds, we replaced RG with an AD who was even worse and let him dig the hole even deeper for four awful years.

That guy made things worse than they were. At least we got rid of him.

BZuppke · Nov 10, 2017

This is not an exaggeration. Wisconsin is what they are today because Pat Richter came in as AD and hired Alvarez, Bennett and knew what he was doing. RG is a loyal illini who’s heart is in the right place but had no concept as to running the DIA. I feel confident JW is our Pat Richter but it will take time to undo years of neglect and self inflicted damage. I’m not saying 10 years but getting the football program winning on a consistent basis will drive the rest of the department forward. We’re on the right course.

BWBW · Nov 10, 2017

BZuppke said:
This is not an exaggeration. Wisconsin is what they are today because Pat Richter came in as AD and hired Alvarez, Bennett and knew what he was doing. RG is a loyal illini who’s heart is in the right place but had no concept as to running the DIA. I feel confident JW is our Pat Richter but it will take time to undo years of neglect and self inflicted damage. I’m not saying 10 years but getting the football program winning on a consistent basis will drive the rest of the department forward. We’re on the right course.

:thumb:

lopey986 · Nov 10, 2017

BZuppke said:
We had to change from Crouch. I love his heart but Cam throws way better than he does and he’s a much better run threat. With Crouch, no team would have to defend the pass and they could stack the box. So I don’t think there is any way we would have done better with Crouch at all.

I don't mind moving from Crouch to Thomas...

It's Jeff George that is the baffling move.

icengineer · Nov 11, 2017

lopey986 said:
I don't mind moving from Crouch to Thomas...

It's Jeff George that is the baffling move.

Hey, if JGjr is the stepping stone from Crouch to Thomas I don't think anyone can really complain. It's not like it's a year-long process. It's actually happened pretty quickly. Our QB situation is really the weakest link in our chain right now. It seems like the staff is making the progressions based on when the players are (almost) ready to make that transition.

Personally I don't see where any other moves get us further along then where we are currently at.