TSJ Thread

[EthanM]

Here’s the thing, a lot of people are using the “if this was another team point”

It’s not like we’re sitting here blindly defending TJ for no reason. There are very reasonable red flags here that allow for questioning. Along with that we have a press conference from our AD that seemed favorable to TJ. We also have somewhat reliable insiders saying Illinois is backing shannon. With all the info we have there is good reason to believe that he COULD be innocent. With all that presented I think I would at least be somewhat skeptical of the charges if it was for a rival team as well.

#2: this is completely irrelevant. Obviously you would be extremely biased for a family member and that goes the other way as well. You wouldn’t want to believe your son would do something like this whether it was true or a false accusation.

From what little I know about him, I’m about 90% team TSJ and right now I agree that everything points towards this being a misunderstanding that’s gotten blown out of proportion by the DA or possibly a false accusation. This is already bad PR for the University but it would be a nightmare if he’s reinstated too quickly and then found guilty in a criminal trial. If the panel ignores incriminating evidence just to win some some basketball games, the University is likely to get sued by the victim at that point.

I don’t find the family question irrelevant at all as it’s a matter of empathy for other people. The fact that JW created this panel tell me that he isn’t the kind of guy that is going to sacrifice all of his morals and ethics just to win games. I’d much rather have that in charge than someone who would rather win at all costs. We can still have empathy for the alleged victim while all of the facts are being sorted out.

 

[STLini25]

Interesting. So a woman can decide it's rape if anything they were told was false? That seems hard to believe. A lot dates that start on a dating site or one night stands that started in bars involve misrepresentations of all kinds.

No, not all or even most representations are material. It would have to be an extreme misrepresentation.

 

[fuggles]

No it’s not. He still gets “due process” from the panel since it sounds like there’s a possibility to reinstate him. The panel will review other evidence in making that decision.

The presumption of innocence in a criminal trial doesn’t mean that your life is normal while you’re waiting for trial. Depending on the severity of the charges you can be denied release on bail - certainly a detrimental action for you. Even if you’re released there are certain conditions you’d have to meet and things you’re not allowed to do. Secondly, given charges that are serious enough, such as rape or murder, I would imagine that many private employers would also strongly consider suspending their employee to avoid negative publicity until the matter is settled in the legal system.

His due process right now is that he’s allowed to continue to be a student and remain on the team. Kicking him out of school without all of the facts would have been irreparable, this isn’t.

At the end of the day, ask yourself two questions. 1) How would you feel if this wasn’t our All-American star player and was instead the 13th guy on the bench, or an AA on one of our rivals - would you still be having this conversation?
2) How would you feel if this was your child, or brother or sister, that was going through this as the alleged victim? How would you feel about the U of I if it turned out that a rape actually did occur to that person and the star athlete was allowed to continue living their life freely while your person was dealing with the trauma and no one believed them?

So a potentially bogus accusation should result in the accused having his or hers life destroyed. In our country there is a presumption of innocence. Which obviously you don't believe in.

 

[Second place is 1st loser]

No it’s not. He still gets “due process” from the panel since it sounds like there’s a possibility to reinstate him. The panel will review other evidence in making that decision.

The presumption of innocence in a criminal trial doesn’t mean that your life is normal while you’re waiting for trial. Depending on the severity of the charges you can be denied release on bail - certainly a detrimental action for you. Even if you’re released there are certain conditions you’d have to meet and things you’re not allowed to do. Secondly, given charges that are serious enough, such as rape or murder, I would imagine that many private employers would also strongly consider suspending their employee to avoid negative publicity until the matter is settled in the legal system.

His due process right now is that he’s allowed to continue to be a student and remain on the team. Kicking him out of school without all of the facts would have been irreparable, this isn’t.

At the end of the day, ask yourself two questions. 1) How would you feel if this wasn’t our All-American star player and was instead the 13th guy on the bench, or an AA on one of our rivals - would you still be having this conversation?
2) How would you feel if this was your child, or brother or sister, that was going through this as the alleged victim? How would you feel about the U of I if it turned out that a rape actually did occur to that person and the star athlete was allowed to continue living their life freely while your person was dealing with the trauma and no one believed them?

The "what if" argument isn't a great take, ESPECIALLY in a he said/she said situation.

3)How would you feel if your son was a superstar athlete and his name was getting stampeded on for that sole reason, which ultimately could cause him millions of dollars.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so we should really stay away from assigning blame. Could be one, could be the other, could be both having made mistakes. It sounds like the latter and the ole....here's her side, here's his side and right in the middle is the truth.

If that's the case, let them take the time to figure it out and exit the whole situation gracefully.

 

[EthanM]

Please understand I mean this with respect to you and your post.

I have to ask how you would feel if your son, brother, or cousin was Matt Araiza?

I’ve listened to a lot of true crime podcasts about false convictions and wrongful imprisonment. The best of these shows will remind you that there’s a victim with a family. It’s a tragedy for everyone involved when these happen because there’s no justice for anyone. The Araiza case was an underage girl who was gang raped on video. That’s a tragedy with a ton of trauma to overcome.

I feel bad for him that he lost his job and really hope he’s able to get on a roster again. It sucks to potentially lose everything he’s worked towards because of this. There’s no denying that he’s a victim in this too.

 

[ugottabjoshinme]

Please understand I mean this with respect to you and your post.

I have to ask how you would feel if your son, brother, or cousin was Matt Araiza?

Would be way more mad at accuser/other people than I am at the Bills.

 

[EthanM]

So a potentially bogus accusation should result in the accused having his or hers life destroyed. In our country there is a presumption of innocence. Which obviously you don't believe in.

No I really do believe in a presumption of innocence - it’s guaranteed as a constitutional right. His right to a fair trial and hopefully being found innocent is a constitutional right. The thing people forget is that playing basketball isn’t a right that’s protected by the constitution.

 

[EthanM]

The "what if" argument isn't a great take, ESPECIALLY in a he said/she said situation.

3)How would you feel if your son was a superstar athlete and his name was getting stampeded on for that sole reason, which ultimately could cause him millions of dollars.

We don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so we should really stay away from assigning blame. Could be one, could be the other, could be both having made mistakes. It sounds like the latter and the ole....here's her side, here's his side and right in the middle is the truth.

If that's the case, let them take the time to figure it out and exit the whole situation gracefully.

Honestly I’d be mad as hell and stand by them for as long as I can and try to clear their name. I’d hopefully try to have a little grace if it was all a misunderstanding or also thought my person had some blame in the situation. If it was truly a situation where it was malicious I’d sue the accuser for everything I could.

 

[IlliniCaboose]

Please understand I mean this with respect to you and your post.

I have to ask how you would feel if your son, brother, or cousin was Matt Araiza?

To underscore just how damaging false accusations can be, up until this exact moment I thought this guy was a scumbag rapist. The accusation is the headline, the retraction is on page 27.

 

[Chad Fleck]

2) How would you feel if this was your child, or brother or sister, that was going through this as the alleged victim? How would you feel about the U of I if it turned out that a rape actually did occur to that person and the star athlete was allowed to continue living their life freely while your person was dealing with the trauma and no one believed them?

I asked my wife about this case. She doesn't care about sports all that much, but she is somewhat aware because of the men in her life (️).

First off, she actually was assaulted in HS. The star basketball just casually grabbed her chest as if he had a right. She had witnesses, and knew it wasn't okay what he had done. He claimed she wouldn't dare turn him in, as he would be punished which would result in him being suspended from basketball before the postseason. She marched down to the office and turned him in. After consulting witnesses and ultimately getting a confession, he was suspended.

Justice was done, swiftly, since it was just a small HS.

Also, I have 4 daughters. I can't even really put myself in this situation very easily. We don't run in the sort of circles that would have one of my daughters in a bar at all. Let alone in a college town with a bunch of fools. If one of my daughters ended up in that situation, then I'd have a tough time not wondering why they were there in the first place. But if they did and something actually did happen to them, I probably would have already paid the offender a visit myself.