TSJ Thread

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Dan

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Clean Up Corona GIF by Music Choice
 
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So what is Illinois response supposed to be? I can't see Illinois super motivated to make a strong case for why Shannon should remain suspended.
 
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So what is Illinois response supposed to be? I can't see Illinois super motivated to make a strong case for why Shannon should remain suspended.
Illinois is bigger than the athletic department. If this were BU or JW, sure, they may just lay down. But Illinois is a proud institution and will defend its policies to the extent that they can. Heck, JW already publicly defended the policy in his press conference stating how well it's worked over the last X number of years.
 
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Illinois is bigger than the athletic department. If this were BU or JW, sure, they may just lay down. But Illinois is a proud institution and will defend its policies to the extent that they can. Heck, JW already publicly defended the policy in his press conference stating how well it's worked over the last X number of years.
The policy is garbage if you persecute the innocent as well as the guilty. If he loses. This won't help the school from being sued. The issue is that the Lawrence prosecutor should have done a much better job and worked with the uofi to get more information. At this point. There is nothing really tying him to her.
 
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Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
The policy is garbage if you persecute the innocent as well as the guilty. If he loses. This won't help the school from being sued. The issue is that the Lawrence prosecutor should have done a much better job and worked with the uofi to get more information. At this point. There is nothing really tying him to her.
I have a sense that the policy was written with intention, rather than execution in mind. The fact that serious charges may take months or years to resolve in court may have escaped the brilliant minds that put the policy together.
 
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UI response will be all “defend the process we have in place “ and will have very little , if anything , to do with TSJ in particular

The problem with that strategy is that federally funded UUIC has legal and constitutional obligations to uphold the law and Constitution. And should have the backbone to stand by these principles.

The DIA policy is a reputational disgrace, seeking to appease culture warriors over bedrock rights such as due process and equal protection. 1 need only look at the stark differences between OSCR policy and DIA to understand DIA failures. Refer to the chart of differences in TSJ's complaint if you have not already.

JW is proud of this "accomplishment", which is understandable given that it provides him a shield from having to make these tough decisions with barrels aimed from both sides. So as much as DIA is a disgrace, I mostly blame the circumstances that make such policies appealing to administrators, not JW himself.

Reputation risk? Reputation risk also cones from defending policies outside core societal values. Ask Harvard how that's going for them lately.
 
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UI response will be all “defend the process we have in place “ and will have very little , if anything , to do with TSJ in particular
Absolutely and rest assured they will defend it with vigor as they should. The policies and process are made for the masses not one individual who could potentially lose what is at stake here if a flawed criminal prosecution is not resolved before June. The linchpin of the committee's decision is credible evidence of a serious crime. Rape is obviously a serious crime. Credible? They did not do an independent investigation. You think the committee went to Lawrence? Not hardly and even if the did the DA would not share their information. That decision lives or dies on what happened with the Douglas County DA and that is a whole different can of worms
 
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I have a sense that the policy was written with intention, rather than execution in mind. The fact that serious charges may take months or years to resolve in court may have escaped the brilliant minds that put the policy together.
The fact that the legal process takes a long time to resolve these issues is the reason the policy was created in the first place.
 
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but then isn’t the policy unfair?
I’m sure policy was put in place to protect the University, students and staff. I’m sure everyone who signed off on it was thinking of cases where the publicly available prima facie evidence was so overwhelming they would be in a situation where they would be criticized for not acting. I don’t think it is possible to design a fair system, there are legitimate arguments the real legal system is flawed. I guess we find out on Friday what the real legal system thinks of the DIA system.
 
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I don’t think the policy is problematic. The policy has a review process in place to consider each specific case on its own merits.

That’s what the panel was there for. If the panel rubber stamps any measures put in place by the policy without consideration to specific factors of the case, then IMO the panel is not serving its purpose. (I do not know, nor am I implying that this is the case)


If the panel makes a decision without hearing from the person that has been suspended, you could wonder if the panel gave this any consideration beyond what triggered the suspension to begin with. (I do not know, nor am I implying, that this is the case)

We have to have laws and policy. But we also need opportunities for people to look at specific circumstances when these policies are implemented. That’s why the panel is part of this process.

I think many felt that the panel would become aware of information that justified removing the suspension at this time, and that they would remove it. They did not. Was that because they felt it was the RIGHT thing to do or because it was the EASY and SAFE thing to do?

I do not know the answer to that question. Nor do I really have an opinion on their motivation. But I think that’s the important question as it relates to the policy and the resulting legal action by TSJ’s people.

Btw. Im not a lawyer.
 
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So what is Illinois response supposed to be? I can't see Illinois super motivated to make a strong case for why Shannon should remain suspended.
It‘s an issue bigger than TJ. This is the process that is applied to others as well. If TJ ultimately wins, this means that the University process likely violated his due process rights which would mean that the process would need to be changed for everyone. Winning the TRO does not mean that the he will win on the merits ultimately but it would allow him to play for at least the time being. Generally, a TRO can be granted if the person requesting it can show irreparable harm and a likelihood of success on the merits of the case. It seems to me that he can likely show irreparable harm pretty easily but I don’t know the UI process well enough to know whether it meets due process requirements.
 
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His lawyer said that terrence had no interaction with the accuser at any point. What more do you want him to say?
(responding to the above post from the previous TSJ thread)
Does anyone have a source/link for this? The statements I've seen have just declared his innocence, or mentioned witnesses (Hobson) who didn't see anything like what was alleged. Both of those leave room for some sort of interaction.
 
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It seems like if the University really wanted to win this case they could invite Shannon to speak to the three-person panel or run this through the Title IX person and then thank him for his input and decide that after careful consideration they are leaving the automatic suspension in place. This would undercut the main arguments I saw from Shannon's lawyers

If they don't do that, maybe it is all cover for letting him rejoin the team?

IANAL
 
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Would we think it was unfair if this was happening to an athlete from another school charged with a felony? I’m sure the answer to that varies from our community but let’s not pretend that this is that black and white.

Perhaps others would not feel it unfair absent personal interest but if the full facts of this case were known to me, then yes I would still judge the circumstances in opposition to the athlete's core natural and legal rights. Very black and white for me.

Just as it's very black and white that if the accusations are proven after due process, then it would not matter that's it's TSJ. Or even, if the full OSCR investigation occurred in compliance with applicable rights, then I would support the suspension.
 
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It‘s an issue bigger than TJ. This is the process that is applied to others as well. If TJ ultimately wins, this means that the University process likely violated his due process rights which would mean that the process would need to be changed for everyone. Winning the TRO does not mean that the he will win on the merits ultimately but it would allow him to play for at least the time being. Generally, a TRO can be granted if the person requesting it can show irreparable harm and a likelihood of success on the merits of the case. It seems to me that he can likely show irreparable harm pretty easily but I don’t know the UI process well enough to know whether it meets due process requirements.
Not only that, but according to Josh this was the 12th time the process has been utilized. So if it were to be determined that TSj's due process was violated, it could open up legal opportunities for the previous 11 people against the university. It makes a lot of sense for the university to vigorously defend the process as implications extend far outside TSJ.
 
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