This is actually a little more of a coincidence but back when I was first investigating the case, someone at the County mistakenly mixed up files between the two cases.
TSJ Thread
Throw in two sips of vodka redbull
Didn’t she identify TSJ based on the colored end of a dreadlock?
Joel Goodson
- dawgville
what a flippin' crock. mind boggling that the DA is pursuing this
So just a word of caution here- this could be an entirely unrelated occurrence or it could indeed have some relevance. Unless something insane happens like this other person coming out and admitting it was him we'll have no idea. The real takeaway from this is that the defense is doing their job and this is just one more thing that the defense is going to use to jackhammer home reasonable doubt.
So again, unless the state has additional evidence they've been keeping under wraps, to summarize what they have based on what has been released so far:
-The alleged victim's testimony that she was assaulted while in the vicinity of TSJ
-No witnesses including alleged victim seeing said crime
-No witnesses corroborating alleged victim and TSJ had physical contact
-No video evidence showing alleged victim and TSJ having physical contact
-No DNA evidence showing alleged victim and TSJ having physical contact
-Trace DNA evidence showing some male(s) had physical contact with alleged victim, of which identify two males who are not TSJ
-Dark, crowded environment making it difficult to discern who is whom
-A person with a prior record of committing sexual assault was in the near vicinity of the alleged victim
I mean wow... Just wow... That's criminal for sure alright, it's just not TSJ who should be facing charges. That should be a DA resignation.
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
I went to Illinois. I know how to hold my drink
Honestly, even taking the photo quality and hair out of consideration, I don't think they look that similar. TSJ face shape seems more oval to me while that dudes is more round. Unless they had the exact same hairstyle and you had many many many sips of vodka redbull, I'm not sure how you mix them up, even in a dark club.
It makes more sense that the accuser didn't see what happened but felt it, turned around and spotted the two of them and went with whoever was standing closer.
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
There wasn't enough DNA on the accuser to make any sort of profile that would be admissible in court.
The point isn't that we've caught The Real Assaulter here, the point is given the packed environment and extreme brevity of the incident, how can alternative possibilities be excluded beyond a reasonable doubt?
They can't.
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
Just because I have time today, here's a side by side of their headshots (both taken from ESPN).
Other than being young black men with athletic physiques, they don't look similar at all.
Other than being young black men with athletic physiques, they don't look similar at all.
This is an entirely INAPPROPRIATE observation from reading the motion to dispel...
She says TSJ was standing to the left of her....meaning he would likely have been using his right hand to commit such acts as eluded in the case files. I'm not buying it.
The dude is known for being utterly dominant on his left side but using his right for this?? I'm reminded of the Seinfeld episode where George proclaims "I can't go left!"
Incorrect I believe, though IANAS. On the buttocks swab there were 3 male DNA specimens, which EXCLUDED TSJ. Would the same test exclude Arterio??
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I’m sorry, Kat, but strong disagree. In a bar??? They have similar hair styles, similar skin tones, are of a similar height, have a similar brow ridge and they have IDENTICAL facial hair patterns, at least here. They’re obviously not twins, but not similar at all?!
Gotta get a look from a lower perspective though; they’re tall!
Arterio Morris has numerous aggressive reported incidents with women...
"
“The woman told police Morris grabbed her arm and pulled her off a bed, then grabbed the front of her sports bra, which she said caused (an) injury on her neck."
Here is a more recent image during his time at Kansas (more proximal to time of incident). Not TSJ, but not out of the question in a 30 second encounter in a dark bar.
Here's a question for the lawyers out there- let's say the defense wants Morris to testify. Can he refuse on the basis of self-incrimination?
And as a follow-up, could Shannon's defense have Morris' alleged victim testify despite the case being dismissed?
And as a follow-up, could Shannon's defense have Morris' alleged victim testify despite the case being dismissed?
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
17 years ago, before I married into my husband's family and started to spend more time with black folks, I might have agreed with you. Me now simply can't. I'm not playing when I say that those men look nothing alike to me. From what I see, TSJ has much closer set eyes, thinner eyebrows, and locs aren't similar to twists at all. The facial hair and complexion is the only similarity. In addition, Morris has a wider/fuller mouth. If they're close enough to touch you, you'd be able to tell them apart, even if you saw them in a dark bar.I’m sorry, Kat, but strong disagree. In a bar??? They have similar hair styles, similar skin tones, are of a similar height, have a similar brow ridge and they have IDENTICAL facial hair patterns, at least here. They’re obviously not twins, but not similar at all?!
That's why the only thing that makes sense to me is what was suggested earlier in this thread: she wasn't looking at them and just picked a dude at random which means there's still a miscarriage of justice going on.
I just started reading this and don’t have the emotional energy to go through hundreds of posts. Is the complaining witness white, black or other? Eye witness identification is notoriously problematic under the best of circumstances. Cross-racial eye witness identification is incredibly unreliable.
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
Young black woman from what was reported, but she didn't see who touched her according to the documents.
Eye witness testimony is so unreliable. Trauma and alcohol wouldn't help the situation. She did see TJ that night, but her testimony is, in my opinion, inconclusive as to what happened. I hope that Arterio isn't being wrongfully dragged through the mud here, but he does have a pretty shady history, unlike TSJ who has never been accused of anything like this. Lawrence Police Department, you seemed to have done a very shoddy with your investigation and the prosecutor has been overzealous in bringing these weak charges.
LadyLoyalty
- Indian Wells, CA
Here’s a long, wonky study about touch DNA in criminal court, for anyone interested. Helped me understand the dna part of TSJ’s case a little more.
Touch DNA: impact of handling time on touch deposit and evaluation of different recovery techniques: An experimental study - Scientific Reports
“Touch DNA” is DNA obtained from biological material transferred from a donor to an object or a person during physical contact. This particular kind of evidence could play an essential role in forensic laboratory work and is considered an important tool for investigators. Even though the...
www.nature.com
I have no idea if the methods of the study are comparable with this case, but...Here’s a long, wonky study about touch DNA in criminal court, for anyone interested. Helped me understand the dna part of TSJ’s case a little more.
Touch DNA: impact of handling time on touch deposit and evaluation of different recovery techniques: An experimental study - Scientific Reports
“Touch DNA” is DNA obtained from biological material transferred from a donor to an object or a person during physical contact. This particular kind of evidence could play an essential role in forensic laboratory work and is considered an important tool for investigators. Even though the...
I found it interesting that the initial "wearer" of the garment was detected so much less frequently than the subsequent "handler" subject, especially in situations where the quantity of handler DNA was large. The authors state that "it was indicative that the “handler” profile could “overwrite” the “wearer” profile."
So, by that logic, given the amount of time between the incident and the DNA test, the woman would presumably have handled/touched those garments/areas and may have to some degree "overwritten" whatever DNA was there from the perpetrator.
Regardless, based on what's public, it sounds like the case will likely hinge on how believable and confident the accuser is in saying it was his hand that assaulted her.