Ty Rodgers to take redshirt year

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#351      
IlliniFan42
HensonHall71 said:
I respectfully disagree - Ty is 6'6 210, Tre is 6'7 205 - very similar size, Ty is a quicker leaper and is stronger. Ty averaged more rebounds and assists per posesion last year than Tre, Ty had a higher shooting % than Tre Ty was a much better defender than Tre and had much better offensive and defensive efficiency numbers than Tre - Tre obviously brings more points to the table , but it comes with lower efficiency. Here are there per 100 possession stats last year:

SeasonSchoolMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTSORtgDRtg
2023-24Louisville
907​
8.1​
17.7​
0.456​
6.6​
12.9​
0.515​
1.4​
4.8​
0.299​
4.8​
6.3​
0.752​
10.6​
2.4​
1.5​
0.8​
3.3​
4.1​
22.4​
105.8​
112.9​
2023-24Illinois
863​
6.5​
12.3​
0.527​
6.5​
12.3​
0.527​
0​
0​
2.5​
4.3​
0.585​
13.3​
5​
1.1​
1​
3.2​
4.4​
15.5​
116.4​
106.4​

Which player would you rather have on this years team? I don't think it's that close that Ty brings more of what this team needs - maybe Tre improved a lot and it sounds like he's done well in practice, but we've all seen the preseason practice hype not materialize when the games start and I hope we're not making a mistake here prioritizing Tre over Ty this year.
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I love bringing numbers into these discussions so my counter would be sometimes numbers mislead.

Looking at the above, it appears Ty is more efficient offensively because he's passing to scorers and he's attempting to score 33% less than Tre. However (and stick with me, because it gets nuanced here), Ty's FG% looks better on the surface because he's not shooting any 3's. If you compare just 2P%, it's very close. Tre's FT% also blows Ty's out of the water, and FT% is often used to indicate how much a player's shot can improve.

So when it comes specifically to scoring, I'd rather take Tre, despite him appearing worse in terms of efficiency. It's clear he's a far greater offensive threat. My guess is Ty's inability to shoot leads to his inflated assist total, while Tre, who can shoot, has less assists and hopefully improves his 3-pt shooting a tad.

When it comes to defensive rating, people generally agree that it's hard to quantify between players on different teams because it relies heavily on the team, so their ratings are close enough it's not a concern for me. To me it appeared Rodgers often cleaned up on defense because he knew he's an offensive liability so had to make up for it or else he'd hit the bench.
 
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#352      
Bigtex
idoc13 said:
Damonte really only started shooting threes his last year if I remember correctly. Defenders gave him plenty of space because he was so hesitant to shoot but he stepped up and shot a very high percentage his last year.

I would think if Ty was also able to do this, he would likely be starting this year.
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Damonte killed it from 3 his junior year (like 55% and too lazy to look it up) and reverted to his normal his senior year. It might not have been his junior and senior years but the last 2 years he played for Illinois.
 
#353      
nyc_illini
illini510 said:
This is a bad look for recruits. You fail to see that side of it. There will be backlash in terms of recruits questioning BU's committment that he makes to prospects to then just go back and over-recruit. Some schools are not playing that game and something tells me that it will backfire unless BU maintains a high level program
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I think it’s a good look for recruits. It’s purely meritocracy based. Buckets get you minutes full stop nothing else
 
#355      
BretMyBeachHouse
I think this really amounts to a change in philosophy for BU that may be a response to the way the game, recruiting, and NIL has evolved. 5 years ago, he was looking to get a team of hard nosed guys who always brought it on defense. He was able to hide an occasional defensive liability like Plummer who added a lot on offense.

Now he finds that he can't field a competitive team based on 9 tough defender so he's fielding a competitive team based on 9 offensive players. He can hide a plus defender who is limited on offense, but that player is going to see his minutes limited and some games be very down.

Bottom line. Ty was recruited into one system that has now been abandoned.
 
#356      
WyattEarp
BretMyBeachHouse said:
I think this really amounts to a change in philosophy for BU that may be a response to the way the game, recruiting, and NIL has evolved. 5 years ago, he was looking to get a team of hard nosed guys who always brought it on defense. He was able to hide an occasional defensive liability like Plummer who added a lot on offense.

Now he finds that he can't field a competitive team based on 9 tough defender so he's fielding a competitive team based on 9 offensive players. He can hide a plus defender who is limited on offense, but that player is going to see his minutes limited and some games be very down.

Bottom line. Ty was recruited into one system that has now been abandoned.
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IMG_3985.jpeg
 
#357      
acmcco2
illini510 said:
Practice is mularkey to me. I'm pretty sure guys like Kipper Nichols also flashed in practice but in the games, it was a different story. I'm focusing on a larger sample size of in game action over a period of 2 yrs, not practice.

That Ole Miss game was a better indicator of where Hummer and Tre White stood than practicing against each other. Only time will tell if Hummer and Tre are better options. I'm not convinced at this time on November 5th.

I believe the inclusion of Will Riley was likely a turning point for Rodgers' role but you have to get a Will Riley. I believe coach just got too many guys who can play the same position that Ty can play and he appears to be the odd man out but not convinced that Tre White is a better option than Ty Rodgers. When you got too many people who want to shoot and too many chefs in the kitchen, that's when you run into trouble. We don't need 5 shooters on the floor. We need guys who know their role and play it effectively. See last year's team
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Philadelphia 76Ers Basketball GIF
 
#358      
Calvin
Totally love what Ty brought to the team and hoped he'd have an important role this season. I just don't see how this kind of competitive roster construction can be avoided at the high major level though. Do people think Duke or KU or other upper tier teams don't bring in depth and wind up with guys sitting on the bench? It seems to me that one of the nice things about NIL is you can get beat out and still make hay. And some guys will be willing to wait or play the eight/nine/tenth man to see if their minutes are needed for whatever reason.

It sucks for sure, but wish him the best wherever he goes, and thankful for what he brought.
 
#359      
illini510
OB positive said:
Ty did nothing on the floor of the Ole Miss game that showed he should've been out there over Tre or Ben either one. However DGL showed he should get more tick and should get heavy minutes in the rotation.
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I agree with both statements. I believe Ty's issue was a matter of not knowing his role and being lost out there b/c roles did not appear to be very clear in that exhibition game. I am a full proponent of DGL starting over Hum if his defense is going to be better than Hum's defense. A 3 guard lineup would be plenty fine with me.
 
#360      
illini510
WyattEarp said:
View attachment 37167
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Yea, this is a good way of putting it. The recruiting pitch for Ty was one thing and that has now changed. That's why I hate it for Ty. He's not a bad basketball player and he certainly could have done a lot for this team. It's too bad that his role was to be diminished to the point where he felt this was his best move to make
 
#361      
grue2
Illini4Christ said:
Why should Coach even allow Ty to practice with the team to get him better or prepare his play for next season when he transfers to another team that may be a competitor or rival?
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The team needs to practice against better defensive players. Ty is one of the better defensive players. I think once of the best things for improving Riley's, KJ's, and Boswell's game would have been for Sincere to be in practice with them.

I would hope that by redshirting Ty realizes his key way to contribute to the team has shifted significantly. The team now needs him to focus on defense and being the best practice player he can, not on improving his own game. I have absolutely no expectations that any player with hopes of a future BB career would do that these days.
 
#362      
aaeismacgychel
illini0440 said:
It’s not Ty vs Tre, it’s Ty vs Ben, Tre, Carey, Will
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And even more acutely how Ty believes he compares with Tre, Ben, Carey, and Will vs. how Brad believes Ty does.

As of now I don't think we have enough information to truly know the answer of who is more correct as it takes future play and progression into account. So if you rank Ty as 4th or 5th in that group it's easy to argue he'd only get 10mpg max. If you rank him as 2nd in that group you point to Tre, Ben, and Carey not showing all that much yet. Overall, it's a reasonable argument as it's based off perception and we'll see how it plays out as the season goes on.
 
#363      
BigMuddyMonster
BretMyBeachHouse said:
Well, the receipts are easily found.

Yes you said.
You got quite a bit of support.
A couple (maybe three) people praised Ty and felt you were exaggerating how much of a liability he was.
No one "attacked" you.

Sorry, the glory of your martyrdom just doesn't really hold up under minimal inspection.
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Seems like you are still bothered my man.
 
#364      
PIT_ILL
Don't love it because Ty like coach said is just a winner. He might not have any characteristics that jump off the page but he is a guy you always like to have.

That being said I think this program handles this stuff better than most and I doubt that goes unnoticed when they are either recruiting or looking for assistants. You come to Illinois and it might not work out but they are going to take care of you and set you up for success. This is infinitely better for long term success than news breaking that Ty is transferring last night. Right now he gets to take his time to research and back channel while using a world class facility, having tons of resources, and getting paid. It is a good business model for the program.
 
#365      
IlliniFandom
I don't love this for us. Ty is a piece that all great teams need. He is a glue with exceptional defensive energy and bounce. Losing him, I actually believe hurts our chances for a long run in the tourney. I get why he made the choice, but I also think it may be partly Brad's fault too for recruiting over him. I would rather take ty than white.
 
#366      
TonyClifton
IlliniFandom said:
I don't love this for us. Ty is a piece that all great teams need. He is a glue with exceptional defensive energy and bounce. Losing him, I actually believe hurts our chances for a long run in the tourney. I get why he made the choice, but I also think it may be partly Brad's fault too for recruiting over him. I would rather take ty than white.
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Over Riley and Hum too?
 
#368      
aaeismacgychel
IlliniFan42 said:
I love bringing numbers into these discussions so my counter would be sometimes numbers mislead.

Looking at the above, it appears Ty is more efficient offensively because he's passing to scorers and he's attempting to score 33% less than Tre. However (and stick with me, because it gets nuanced here), Ty's FG% looks better on the surface because he's not shooting any 3's. If you compare just 2P%, it's very close. Tre's FT% also blows Ty's out of the water, and FT% is often used to indicate how much a player's shot can improve.

So when it comes specifically to scoring, I'd rather take Tre, despite him appearing worse in terms of efficiency. It's clear he's a far greater offensive threat. My guess is Ty's inability to shoot leads to his inflated assist total, while Tre, who can shoot, has less assists and hopefully improves his 3-pt shooting a tad.

When it comes to defensive rating, people generally agree that it's hard to quantify between players on different teams because it relies heavily on the team, so their ratings are close enough it's not a concern for me. To me it appeared Rodgers often cleaned up on defense because he knew he's an offensive liability so had to make up for it or else he'd hit the bench.
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So, I'll say 2 things about the statistical comparison between Tre and Ty:

1. The advanced stats do not suggest the "Tre is Ty with more offense" opinion that some have espoused on here is anywhere close to the truth. They'd be considered extremely different players. Ty based on both broad and relative comparison has been a much better and more consistent defender. Tre based on both broad and relative comparison is a much more accomplished offensive player though has a lot more usage and is a much higher volume shooter of lower efficiency shots. They're not remotely similar players statistically.

2. There's no one size fits all statistical answer here. If you need defense and a phenomenal offensive rebounder who doesn't create his own shot and is lower usage offensively but is efficient when he takes them, choose Ty. If you need a player who is much higher usage on offense and creates his own shots, albeit less efficient ones, and does a much better job at spacing the floor, choose Tre. The question is what style fits best for what you're trying to do and the lineups?

Overall though, there are a few things for certain: It is way way way too early to know conclusively Ty>>>>>>Tre or Tre>>>>>Ty and there is far more to this comparison than just Tre vs. Ty, it involves several other players along with fit and scheme. By the end of January though we should have a fairly good idea.
 
#369      
FreshlySqueezed
aaeismacgychel said:
So, I'll say 2 things about the statistical comparison between Tre and Ty:

1. The advanced stats do not suggest the "Tre is Ty with more offense" opinion that some have espoused on here is anywhere close to the truth. They'd be considered extremely different players. Ty based on both broad and relative comparison has been a much better and more consistent defender. Tre based on both broad and relative comparison is a much more accomplished offensive player though has a lot more usage and is a much higher volume shooter of lower efficiency shots. They're not remotely similar players statistically.

2. There's no one size fits all statistical answer here. If you need defense and a phenomenal offensive rebounder who doesn't create his own shot and is lower usage offensively but is efficient when he takes them, choose Ty. If you need a player who is much higher usage on offense and creates his own shots, albeit less efficient ones, and does a much better job at spacing the floor, choose Tre. The question is what style fits best for what you're trying to do and the lineups?

Overall though, there are a few things for certain: It is way way way too early to know conclusively Ty>>>>>>Tre or Tre>>>>>Ty and there is far more to this comparison than just Tre vs. Ty, it involves several other players along with fit and scheme. By the end of January though we should have a fairly good idea.
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Let me address this here because I think it's way oversimplifying things.

Ty not only does not create his own shot (think Luke Goode), but he is zero threat to shoot the ball outside of 6 feet. There is a massive difference in those two types of offensive limitations. I really don't think some people understand how big of a deal it is. It doesn't mean he's useless, but there's a real ceiling there in terms of minutes and it is very dependent on the roster around that type of player.

And I don't think we can say that Tre White will create and take less efficient shots here. He didn't take inefficient shots last night. Our shot chart was a coach's wet dream and Tre White only took two shots, both 3-pointers. He got to line 3x and ended up scoring 5 points on those 2 shots.

This is where practice matters. If Brad thought Tre White was going to be jacking up bad shots when he was on the floor, he wouldn't be on the floor for very long. Most of us message board dorks can only go off what we see during games but Tre White has a new coach, a new role, etc. so I don't think we can necessarily judge certain things about him based on his last two years.

Bottom line - without developing a jump shot, Ty Rodgers was never going to play more than he did last season. Age and loyalty should not play a factor in PT at a program of our caliber.
 
#370      
ptgrd23
I love Ty but at 6'6" he has to jump shot to play on top 20 team. He looked good in practice but somehow could not pull the trigger in game. JMO at this point it seems more psychological than physical.

I think its less about Tre and more about Ty. The game has changed. The non shooting forwards in past Robert Bennett, Brian Randle etc would not play in todays game. If Ty had Adrian Dantley inside moves he would be an offensive threat but AD was one in a million.

NIL and transfer portal has changed the game forever. Kids don't stay 4 years and work on their game. Its instant gratification. FYI- Skyy was 1-5 with 7 assists for UCLA vs Ryder.

UCLA is starting 4 transfers 1 returnee. Illini started 3 transfers and 2 freshman (KJ and Tomas). Welcome to the portal.
 
#371      
ptgrd23
All non centers on UCONN top 7 could shoot. They just happened to play great defense as well.
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#372      
IlliniKat91
15 pages for me to learn Ty's mom is also posting on this board.

Ty is a fantastic young man, but he's struggled to get anything going offensively while at Illinois. I'm happy he gets a chance to do what's right for him, and I'm certain this was his choice because I don't think BU brings him to media days and asks him to speak for the team if it was his plan to push him out by cutting his minutes.

Ty didn't want to be a glue/come in and kill it on defense when the offensive firepower isn't cutting it guy. That's okay. He's making a move that works for him. That's fantastic, and Illinois basketball will be fine regardless.
 
#374      
splitter
This is the new norm. Ty goes from starting last year to probably 10 minutes off the bench. He can still be the leadership needed in the locker room, practice and from the bench. i will wish him well whether he leaves or returns Sencire and Amani followed Chester he left. Wish them well too. Hopefully if TA gets a coaching job next year it is not in the BIG 10.
 
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